Elsa
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Posts posted by Elsa
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I am definitely not a qualified person to discuss this topic, but I have a strong feeling that there is a bias against international students. And I say this as an international student applying now, after a 2 years MA in the US... I can see three main reasons for that. First is the GRE. I have the feeling that committees do not properly weight the difficulty of taking this exam when english is not one's first language. Not only that, but also the structure of this exam is one that American students are already used to (from the SAT and so on) , while international students generally are not. Second is that I don't think committees have perfect knowledge about universities around the world. My undergraduate university is the best in my country and the admission rate is less than 10% for undergraduates... Even when adcoms know of this university, I doubt they would know that the average level of students there is super high (I think it is higher than the top 25 school where I did my masters), even though grades are generally super low (a 3.2 GPA was the highest in the history of the department). Third is the recommendation letter system. Not all countries make use of this mechanism for selecting students. Since in my school back home very few students go to the US for their PhD's , my professors had little experience writing recommendation letters and, ironically, avoided any excessive praising of my skills and abilities... nearly the opposite of the letters I've got from American professors.
I don't think adcoms intentionally discriminate against international students, but I have the feeling that this system is slightly harder on International students then it is against American students. And, given the same skill level of two students, one American and one International, I believe an American one would perform better on this application process simply because she would now how to work this system better and adcoms would know how to read her signals better.
Still, I think the US has probably the most welcoming educational system.... but it is a bit unfair to international students.
To be honest, I am a little shocked by your comment. As an international applicant, I admit it, it took me months to understand the application process, getting familiar with the GRE that doesn't exist here, getting recommendations that barely exist in my country, explaining the principle of US recommendation letters to my recommenders so they won't make any blunder, paying a lot of money to get ready for the tests, putting a lot of work in my "SOP" (at first I was like "what the hell is that thing?"). So yes, it was definitely harder for me or for you to apply than it was for a native speaker familiar with the culture. But come on, no one forced us, plus it is absolutely normal to prove yourself as a potential immigrant. You are a guest in that country, you have to prove your understanding of the system you're getting yourself into. AND for some programs, being an international applicant is an asset : several languages, different experiences, different perspective and creativity. The pros make up for the cons. You definitely can make your application as good as an american one, even better if you understand the strategy and "personal-brand" yourself. Plus it is up to you to help them understand the cultural differences. For instance, I sent along with my transcripts a school profile of my university (even if it's well-known world wide) with an explanation of the grading system (way more severe in my country) that I had the director of the department I graduated from to sign. To conclude, yes it takes more efforts for us, but it's only fair and definitely doable. I wish gradschools in my country would treat the international applicants with the same consideration as Americans gradschools...
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Thank you both!!
I'm going to copy/paste that email you wrote philosophy chic lol. It's a master degree so is the research question relevant?
Should I ask about the final decision deadline or do you think the School will get back to me anyway if they need my answer before April 15th? They are not going to throw away my application if I don't give a final decision immediatly? They are going to notify that deadline right?
I really have no idea of how it works. In my country they would just ignore the applicant who wouldn't respond quickly.
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In all of my responses, I've said something along the lines of "thank you for the wonderful news" and then went on to either address questions posed in the email (like, when would be a good time to call) or to mention a few questions I might have about the program. So long as you're polite though, I'm sure most anything is fine.
Hello,
I have absolutely no idea what to respond to an acceptance email. I didn't apply for scolarships or financial help so basically, it's my call to go or not to go there. I'm still waiting for other decisions (some of them might not be released until two months). What should I say? "Thank you for the great news, when do I have to give my final decision"? I really don't know what to say.
Thank you for helping a poor international student lost in translation.
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Rewatched Six feet Under
Rewatched Lost
Watching Party Down
Playing guitar.
Working out.
Swimming.
Reading Prey.
I am still going crazy........... help me!
A good one (at least it helps me), I think about all the things that I could add to my application if I had to reapply next year. What would give me more chances to get in? So I'm starting new projects and it makes me feel better. This way I feel less powerless, at least I'm doing something in advance for the next application season if I don't get in this year : started boxing lessons, singing lessons, finishing a book, finally going through my my diet etc.
Oh and also, sucking my thumb and whining :-D
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Going to work every day and working on my resume in case this doesn't work out.
Same here. But I'm still going crazy, litterally. At some point, I'll be begging on my knees the Admissions Offices to send me out my decisions.
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Perhaps try the Gov Affairs board?
Here is some information from an old thread, dealing with GW generally. They are talking about Trachtenberg and not SMPA, but the comments may be helpful nonetheless.
Very useful, thanks!
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???
Do you have a link for that? It appears that one may apply for a program in Argentina up until June 1. Am I missing a program?
Here's what I relied on:
http://government.ge...ate/maprograms/
Democracy and Governance: Jan 15
http://www1.georgeto...nce/admissions/
American Studies: Jan 15
http://www1.georgeto...aag/admissions/
Conflict Resolution: Jan 15
http://www1.georgeto...ion/admissions/
Law and Global Security: Jan 15
http://lsgs.georgeto...rams/maprogram/
Development Management (in Argentina): June 1 (Fall 2011) / April 1 (Summer 2011)
http://government.ge...sionandtuition/
I called them. For the MPP, april 1st. But the priority deadline is january 15.
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I applied there!
I wouldn't take a lack of posts as a statement about its quality as a school.
Hey!
Thanks for responding! So how should that lack of responses be interprated?
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Hello,
I'm an international applicant specilized in political communication. I applied to SMPA at GWU because I was told that it was a great school in my field, great teachers, great network. But it seems that no one applied there on this forum. Why is that? What do you think about it?
Thanks for helping.
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Thanks, Langoustine!
Sorry, I thought that the point of US gradschools was to seek for people who "think outside the box"?
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The following programs are closed:
NYU
Chicago (MAPSS and CIR)
Georgetown (all related MAs)
Yale Macmillian (all related MAs)
Georgetown still accepts applications until April 1st
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I think that the forum title says: ?
I think that democratic principles say : freedom of speech ;-)
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The issue I have is with the word "quota" because you are then saying that the entering student body needs to have x number of women or x number of people who identify as "black" regardless of what the applicant pool looks like. I agree that institutions can "craft" a class so to speak and I think it is important that they do so. It would be boring and unfortunate if everyone in your cohort was from the same background, had the same interests, from the same region, etc. It is important in your education experience to be exposed to a diversity of ideas and people so you can better interact with others in your profession and in the real world (so to speak).
Please see above about why US universities ask applicants to fill out race/ethnicity and sex. It is not surprising-- it is mostly logistics.
Logistics? I don't mean to be rude, but isn't a little naive? You don't like the word "quotas", fine, let's use the word "reasonable amount of". See? It works now. They do support minorities and they do want "a reasonable amount of" international students. First, our fees are higher, Second, it's excellent for the reputation of the university, we spread it! Three, we are a diversity asset. For instance, on the Harvard application, they clearly state that they have a positive action policy in favor of women and minorities. How do they put that into action if they don't use quotas? They have a number in mind, of course they do. Now how it works exactly? I don't know, but I can tell you that I have several "minorities" friends who applied in the US for that reason : easier to get in...
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Application files from
protected minorities are identified
with a bright green sticker on the
outside and a pink status sheet
inside.
PM me and I'll send you the article.
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An important variable in our
analyses is whether an applicant is
admitted to the program. However,
we modify this variable to compensate
for features of Harvard University's
Affirmative Action and financial
aid policies, as it affects the
work of the admissions committee. "
We give a brief overview of these
policies and then our analytical
decisions.
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I am not an international student-- I am actually an American. After I read the discussion about quotas, I felt that I had to post. There are no quotas for applicants based on race, gender, or sexual orientation in the US. There are two famous U.S. Supreme Court cases back in 2003 (Grutter v. Bollinger and Gratz v. Bollinger) that speak to affirmative action policies in university admissions. Essentially, they ruled that race can be used as a factor in the admission process but universities cannot establish quotas for specific races/ethnicities or assign points* to applicants based on their demographics. If universities did this, it would be illegal.
For the discussion on do universities have quotas for international students? It honestly doesn't make any sense. Just to think about it logistically, that would be a nightmare as programs and departments have different deadlines for admissions and release decisions at different times throughout the year. Just look to the gradcafe's result section to see this! I don't see how they would realistically coordinate this process.
From my personal perspective, I sat on my admission's committee when I was a master's student. International students were reviewed with everyone else and were not flagged or singled out. The adcomm was interested in what they wanted to study, their background in the field, and the strength of their research skills. Being a citizen of x country never came up nor was important to the adcomm.
I hope Elsa that you find that article and post it. I would be curious to read it.
If you want to see data on international enrollments at US graduate schools, the Council of Graduate Schools have several informative reports. http://www.cgsnet.or....aspx?tabid=172 You can see that international student enrollments are increasing not declining so that is good news for you all
* The "points" refers to the institution (in the court case) that was awarding underrepresented minorities 20 points. Applicants were rated on numerous items and if they received 100 points, they were admitted to the university.
I'm sorry but I stay on my positions, according to the numerous discussions that I had with American professors (Harvard, Reed, Fulbright comittee, Georgetown and Washington). They do have quotas, not by field but for the entire university. I'm not familiar with the American Law, but they were all positive about that fact. And they do separate the applications. It doesn't mean that they are not reviewed together, but they do know which of them are from the US and which are not... Plus, if they don't take into consideration the gender or the race, why do they ask you that question when you apply? Maybe it's not like : okay, let's take 20 black people this year, of course it doesn't work like that, but being black can be an asset. In my country, it is forbidden to even ask someone in an application form if they are black or asian, or purple for that matters. Forbidden. So maybe you're right, it's not written in stone, but they do take that into consideration when they review your application. Otherwise, 5 estimable professors lied to me.
I would love to post the article, I have it in pdf, how can I do that? It confirms that.
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Thanks for explaining and you're not disappointing me at all! I had no idea about how the review process works, I was just posting my thoughts/fears.
Well, since I'm from a small country and as far as I know nobody from my department ever tried to apply to US universities (or at least nobody ever asked for letters of recommendation), maybe my chances aren't that bad. But still, I'm a very impatient person. The waiting drives me nuts, no matter if I'll have to wat 4 or 40 more days... So please be patient with me. I might freak out here several more times
Oh I understand completely! I freak out every single time I get an email!!! I'm pathetic. And unlike you, I come from a country where people do apply to US gradschools. I wish I were from Kazakhstan... :-(
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now THAT's interesting. I wonder what the chances are for an international minority? and what color tag would you receive lol
LOOOOOOOOOOL. Believe me, I was this close to check all the boxes just to be sure : yes, I'm black, asian, gay AND blind, I'm one of a kind! :-D (Don't be offended people, it's a lame joke, politically incorrect but I'm French, that is a national sport) ;-)
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To be honest, I don't think that's the case. It would not make any sense. Why should they divide the applications? Because Americans get the spots and Internationals get what's left over? I really hope not...
Well Kathiza I'm really sorry to disappoint you, but the pool of international applicants is reviewed apart, because US grad schools have... quotas. For instance, you are, let's say German. You apply in 2010 and this year, there are 45 other European people applying to the same program, your chances are lower than if you had applied in 2009 with only 10 European applying. I read this article wrote by an Harvard Adcom which explains the process : they clearly and immediatly separate international (they put a blue stickers on their applications) from the rest of the pool (people from minority get a red sticker). Then they make the decisions. Final step? they adjust the decisions according to the School quotas policy. I'll post the article in question.
So do you have more chances to get in as an International? Theoretically yes, because there are fewer of us compared to US students. But you are not competing with all international students, it depends on how many people from your area are applying... To conclude : it's impossible to tell and don't hesitate to reapply the next year, your acceptance or rejection is also a statistical matter.
Now I'm going back to my chocolate cookies, the only thing that cheers me up !
PS : I talked to three US professors who are or were on Adcoms'. They all confirmed what the Harvard professor wrote...
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You know what Zouzax? let's keep it that way : Adcoms haven't started to review international applications yet. End of the story. Now we can all get some sleep and start focusing on our jobs (getting fired would be the icing on the cake!!!)
No but seriously, I do think international applications are reviewed together, apart from Americans'.
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It is so good to see that I am not the only one quickly getting out of bed any single time my phone notifies an email in the middle of the night!! Damn you useless Facebook messages and Columbia admission blog! Stop sending me articles about the School, send out my decision!!!
I have trouble focusing on my job from 15pm to 2am. I'm also relieved that other International students haven't gotten their decisions yet when some Americans have.
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Okay, I called them : decisions will be sent out in batches. They haven't reviewed yet 80% of the applications submitted. So no need to panick until early march.
Thanks fishpoo, you were right. (still, you're so lucky to have your decision, I'm jealous ;-))
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Hi!
It really depends on your birth country. I have my Fulbright interview in a couple of days and they will wait until applicants get their acceptance letters from the gradschools they applied to before they send out decisions. So basically, for French Fulbright, we won't find out until April...
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Thanks Fishpoo for responding. I'm panicking.
School of Media and Public Affairs (GW) : good or bad?
in Communication and Public Relation Forum
Posted
Thanks Gunner!
Actually, I got in there and I simply decided to go to DC at the end of the month to find out more about the program by myself since I have to make a choice. Until now, the director of the program has been super nice and encouraged me to visit the school and enroll there (obvious I know, but still, I had good vibes).
Thanks again for your response.