[Debating leaving PhD program with an MSE]

Your post is very helpful because you do share some of the same thoughts that I have. It a sense, it is the past of least resistance, but I kind of feel like leaving (once I have a job and such) would become the new path of least resistance. I don't know, I just keep going back and forth. I'll just keep pondering, for now...

[Debating leaving PhD program with an MSE]

I mean, if you are completely and absolutely miserable, it's a lot easier to make the choice (although not easy), but if you are sort of on the fence - and there are aspects you like and aspects you dislike - it's definitely harder.

Why do you have to do a research internship? You can do an internship that's a hybrid of two worlds, such as the one I did one summer - a market research internship with a corporation that used my analytical and statistical skills. In my case, I strongly disliked corporate culture and the sort of 9-to-5 grind, and I decided that I did not care for trying to make other people rich. Doing that internship helped me narrow down what I wanted. I do have the advantage of having my own external funding, so my advisor couldn't stop me even if he wanted to, but is your advisor going to cut off your funding if you do a more corporate-type internship than a research one? You could also do something in-between like I did.

I will say that for me, the reason I wanted to leave is that 1) I hate academic politics and 2) I was burned out on coursework. I love research and I love my field, and that's the reason I decided to stay, because I realized I could take my PhD and go work in a non-academic position (yes, with its own politics) AND I was finished with coursework. And this program has been so much more enjoyable now that I am not taking classes anymore. If you don't love research, things may get worse when you finish your classes, not better.

And that's the thing - I'm not completely miserable, it really goes back and forth. Today, I am enjoying my work - tomorrow, I might not like it so much. But it is all doable, I have a great advisor, and a great lab. So its not the environment, per se; its just trying to figure out if deep down, I really like this.

We have to do a research internship for the research experience, and to do continuing work that we can then publish. I doubt I'd lose regular funding for a normal internship, but it would be frowned upon.

And yes, I am sick of course work, but that's not an issue. I'm taking my final course this semester Most of the PhD's who graduate from my lab go on to R&D / Industry though, only a very minute percentage stay in Academia. So continuing the PhD by no means commits me to academia.

[Debating leaving PhD program with an MSE]

That's part of the answer there. The other part is that being an academic involves a lot of long-term thinking and managing of students, but not as much actual research work (in a lot of cases). Industry labs are a little different, but some are also pretty similar. If research is not what you ultimately want to be doing, then what is the point of getting a degree that you won't actually use?

In the end, it's your life and it's unfortunate that it seems people are trying to live some of their lives vicariously through you. Realize that you only have to answer to one person and that's you. Your family will still love you even if you *only* have an MS. Advanced degrees are not exactly a dime a dozen and it's about figuring out what you want to do with your life. One possibility you haven't mentioned (and one that I would strongly encourage) is to look into internships and to talk with your advisor. If you go off and work for a summer and realize that you love that environment -- great, problem solved. It's ok to leave with an MS even after 3rd, 4th, 5th year. You don't have to make the decision right this second. At the same time, you can also apply for jobs and just gauge what kinda offers you're getting. Applying doesn't mean committing to being hired.

What is the point? Trying to answer that question myself. I don't want to leave and regret it later - I don't want to leave and then get a crappy job and potentially miss out on something awesome in the PhD life. I do think I could be a good PhD advisor, but I don't want to be one. Regarding internships, I'm currently looking to have one this summer (at my advisor's urging), but it's not a typical internship - it "has" to be a research internship in my field, so I feel that wouldn't be super different than what I do now. I am however looking at jobs - I'm basically browsing job sites and seeing what pops up with various keywords, trying to figure out which jobs I'd actually enjoy doing. And yes, I plan to start applying to some just for the heck of it to see what happens. Part of me feels a bit deceitful because of it, but it would give me a good feel of what's out there, and how attractive I am to potential employers with an MSE. I'd feel bad putting off leaving for several years because then that's just even more money I would have sucked out of my advisor's pocket.

[Debating leaving PhD program with an MSE]

Thank you all for the replies! I'm going to respond a bit out or order, so bear with me.

I recommend that you understand that the golden days of software/hardware development are over. The corporate types maintain an unending focus on the bottom line.

If you manage to find a job, it is likely that you'll have a demanding work load, encounter a fair share of "anti-social people," marathon conference calls, an unrelenting barrage of email (some of my colleagues received 300+ messages a day), and a lot of frustration as good ideas will take a back seat to business related priorities. (Unfortunately, numerous NDAs prevent me from giving you concrete examples.)

I do, however, recommend that you be as up front with your PoIs/advisors/mentors as possible. It is my observation that some of the most successful members of the industry are those who happen to be honest brokers in addition to having advanced skill sets.

I don't know that I feel the need to be on the bleeding edge of tech development, and I would not totally agree that the age of HW development is over. The major processor manufacturers who fund most students in my lab and take many of our graduates for employees are doing some cool stuff. I don't feel the need to try and be one the most successful members of the industry - I do want success, but I want to make sure I really enjoy the work I do, too. I did some temporary contracting work for a summer for a business, and definitely got a whiff of the business environment. I definitely understand it's not all roses over there. It's not so much that I'm thinking this would be the easy way out; I'm trying to determine what route would make me happier as a person, which route will I personally find more interesting, engaging, and fulfilling. Your comment is definitely food for thought.

Letting others down is never fun, but letting yourself down (and negatively impacting your life in the process) is not a good alternative. Your family may be hurt at first, but they'll get over it because they love you. Your advisor may find your departure inconvenient, but he/she will find someone else to take over your work; that's part of being an advisor.

I know, and that's what I tell myself all the time - I just don't like letting people down at all, and I just don't want to be seen as a quitter. Boo! I also just don't know how to bring it up. I'd definitely continue work on research for the rest of the semester, but I need funding, and I fear losing it if I bring anything up now.

One of the things I'm really fed up about Post-College education is that everyone treats it like a hybrid of a Career/Job and Prison... Mainly because of how much of an impact a name (or a negative reference that is attached to that name) has... which is also ridiculous. The truth is that this is YOUR education, not your advisor's or your department's education. Granted, your advisor is investing in you, and so you need to be honest and fair with them, but you do need to remember that ultimately, you are there for YOU, not your advisor or your department. I think that if more grad students thought that way, there wouldn't be as many horror stories that are so common on this and other boards.

That's a good point, thanks for chiming in! It's tricky just thinking about ME, though. I just don't tend to be that type of individual

I am definitely doing this PhD for me -- at 40+. I gave up on something for family reasons earlier, and there were issues I had to work through related to that. Even so, I don't regret past decisions, because they all led up to now. The kids are great -- and they were not doing so well before. I'm happy where I am. I guess the "message" is make your decision and accept it. You can only decide with the information you have now, and looking back on the past is pointless, because you don't know how things would have turned out if you'd made a different choice -- there's no guarantee things would have been better, so I like to assume I made the best choice at the time and that it is still the best choice.

I don't know how easy it is to return. I know several guys just joined my lab in the PhD program, all already possessing MS degrees, but they are now being required to retake all the Masters-level coursework. That's insane, in my mind, and not something I'd want to deal with. I appreciate all these comments; unfortunately with good arguments from both sides, my brain still churns. Let's see if anyone else turns up!

[Debating leaving PhD program with an MSE]

No worries about the rambling - like I said, all comments are appreciated!

I can see what you're saying there, and all I know is that right now, I'm leaning towards thinking that taking an MSE is the right thing at this time. I just don't want to let people down, I do enjoy the work I do for the most part, and I have a great lab and advisor, so its hard to think about saying goodbye. And sure, maybe I would want to come back in the future, but maybe not.

[Debating leaving PhD program with an MSE]

Hey there everyone,

I'm new to this site, but not new to grad school. I'm currently a 2nd year student in a PhD program, and as the subject of this thread indicates, I'm having some second thoughts. I have second thoughts several dozen times every day, and I'm leaning closer than ever before to leaving with an MSE. I am currently taking my last course, and will graduate with the MSE this coming April. The question is: Do I start looking for a job now to start in May, or stick it out for another 3-4 years of the same grind? I should say that I work in the Computer Architecture field, which I find interesting, and I feel that I could complete a PhD - the question I've been trying to answer for myself is "Will I be happy here for 3 more years, will I be happy after that, and is this really what I want to do?" I'm at a bit of a tipping point in a long-term relationship (in a good way), and the upcoming possibility of several large life-changes begs for outside input from those not directly-related to me.

My dilemma is that I've discovered don't really enjoy research (but I don't hate it, either), and I don't want to go into academia. I don't enjoy thinking abstractly so much as I do actually working with tangible hardware and "doing things". I do rather enjoy teaching students, and would consider a lecturer position somewhere, but I don't want full-fledged academia to be my career. I was very gung-ho on research when I came into grad school, and over the past two years, I've really pushed myself to keep going, to try different approaches to it all, and to be open-minded to the lifestyle changes that come with being a PhD student, but I'm just not feeling it like I had hoped I would. I feel I could be happy with a PhD - I might have a more flexible schedule than perhaps other employment situations would offer, and I'd be more financially well-off later in life. But, at what cost to me now, in my prime years? To me, being able to be there for a family physically and financially someday is the most important thing, and I know I could do that with a Masters. I don't want a career of academia - I look at those around me, and see a group of highly-intelligent, but highly anti-social people, most without families, and that's not what I want. I utterly refuse to let work be my life. I've come to the realization that the jobs I would enjoy doing certainly don't need a PhD, and many of them don't even need an MS.

Now, that previous paragraph might make this seem like a straightforward decision for me, but it is not. The number of outside forces weighing down upon me, urging me to complete the PhD, are huge stressors in my equation. I don't want to be seen as a quitter - I don't want people, including my current advisor/funder, to think I gave up, or to look down on me for "only" having a Masters, but that's the fear I have. I've grown up in a highly-academic family; One parent is a tenured department chair / professor, and another (a step parent) is about to finish her PhD in religion. The pressure from them to lead the life of an intellect and to take a PhD and become a professor is overwhelming, and I don't want to let family down - I love them! I am of the "please others before yourself" personality - making others happy is what makes me happy. I also don't want to let those at my undergrad down - of my EE class (60-80 students), only 3 went to grad school (we churned out workers, not future grad students, apparently), and I was the only one to 1) go to another school for graduate study, and 2) enroll in a full PhD program. That's a lot of pressure - I was the star student in my faculty's eyes, and they've all pointed out the "success story" that I am to their program, requesting that I come back to be a professor when I finish my PhD. So, that's a lot of people to let down, a lot of people I could be ostracising myself from if I make the wrong decision. That's what I fear.

And since I can't see the future, how can I know if I will truly regret my decision (either way) one day? I want to be successful and happy, and I want to enjoy a job and raise an awesome family. So, how best can I factor in the various trade-off's? How can I end my internal struggle? What should I do? The other thing to consider is that I am currently funded through research, and I need to have funding - I fear that if I tell my advisor now that I want to stop, I'll stop getting paid, which would be very, very, bad.

Thanks for reading, and any comments would be REALLY appreciated