stilesg57

Working in the field last year, it became very clear to me that Duke Sanford/Nicholas and Indiana SPEA are the lead programs in this area. Those two programs were responsible for more than two-thirds of the research and personnel I was working with in clean tech in China. It's one of the main reasons I chose Duke.

Since you have an interesting job already lined up, I'd lean slightly toward the work experience route. You've got some great school choices though, I see your dilemma. The economy and job market will be a lot better by the time you graduate, but it will still help you in your future job search to have some experience besides internships.

I'd second Harris and add Duke's Sanford School of Public Policy.

Your sister is more correct than most of us want to admit However, it's not like SPEA grads don't get jobs, and the school IS known within the enviro community, so I wouldn't worry too much about that side of it. It sounds like you want to go to SPEA.

I had to do it last year. It isn't recommended, but it isn't the worst thing in the world either. Better to do it than be in a program that doesn't fit. They'll get over you

Both schools had an April 15th decision. I accepted Ford's offer and turned down Sanford. About three weeks later I felt like Sanford may have been the better choice for me, so I talked with Sanford admissions to see if they still had room and if their offer of acceptance still stood. I got lucky: they were targeting a class of 50 and had 48. They said my offer of admission still stood if I was interested in switching from Ford. I had a to get a release letter from Ford saying I could drop their program and go to another one (had something to do with the association/council of grad schools or something like that). When they released me from my decision Sanford accepted me, and here I am.

Man, tough decision. Frankly, any of them will work out great, so don't be too worried. I agree with the Harris grad about Harris' advantage in academia. I do feel it's the best pre-PhD program of the three. That said, one of the best pre-PhD things going is having no debt BEFORE you begin a 4-8 year program (during which interest keeps accruing) to get out and make maybe mid-$60s. It's tough to swallow debt if you plan on a PhD eventually. However, plans can change - there are apparently always a dozen Duke MPPs who want a PhD coming into the program and only two or three grads a year actually go that way. I'm not familiar with GTown's program, though I believe I've heard its only a one year deal. That also has positives and negatives, as does GTown's professional and DC-centric focus. I know you're surprised to hear this, but I think Duke is great. What can I say: I'm jealous of your full ride It may not be preferable to Harris for a future PhD application, but it isn't going to hurt you by any means. I would also say not to worry about Durham; it's honestly not an issue. Everyone worries about Durham (including me) coming into Duke and everyone realizes in about a week that it isn't an issue at all. Good luck with your decision, you've got a great problem to have!

Someone say my name? As someone who was very excited to get into Harris - and equally crushed when I realized that without any financial aid I could never justify attending there - here's what I've come up with on Chicago. These are the things that made me feel better in turning Harris down and/or things I've learned about the programs since last fall: 1. Harris is more of a feeder school to all the big Chicago consulting firms than Sanford is to all the big Durham consulting firms 2. Harris alumni are located primarily in Chicago, the greater midwest, and DC - seemingly in that order. 3. Chicago's a tad more of an academic program; Sanford seems a tad more like a professional/management program (I feel comfortable saying the same about Ford BTW). 4. More quant courses are required in the core curriculum, but this doesn't mean it's a quant-specific program while Sanford's pumping out a bunch of philosophers. You can get a much more quantitative program at Sanford than Chicago's core curriculum if that's your thing (taking advance-track quant courses, courses in the math and econ departments, etc). Our three standout quant guys in my class all looked at Chicago, and obviously they all came here. 5. Two of these quant peeps visited Chicago and mentioned that the facilities at Harris are not terribly nice (Sanford's are); I believe they're building some new facilities for Harris in the next few years. 6. Chicago has a conservative reputation that draws certain candidates there. A good college friend of mine who's doing her PhD at Berkeley in PoliSci says the U Chicago people can be an "interesting" crowd, and that its a noticeable trait. 7. Living expenses are quite a bit lower in Durham than in Hyde Park. 8. Their basketball team sucks So it depends what you're looking for. If you're looking specifically for a PhD feeder program, I'd probably recommend Chicago. If you specifically want to work in consulting or in the city of Chicago itself, I'd probably recommend Harris. Otherwise, I kinda like Duke - surprise surprise As for some of your other questions: Sanford's reputation will do nothing but help you in the job market. Employers recruit on campus and eat up Sanford grads. It's cool seeing this from a removed perspective with the 2nd years right now; even in this horrendous job market they're all doing pretty well. I don't think Chicago holds any advantage in this regard frankly. The Sanford grad placement and alumni network speaks for itself. If you want to work in the federal government or in DC this is a GREAT place to be. That said, if you want out of NC or DC, you do have to work at it a bit (I'm in that boat - its becoming less of a problem as I search harder for internships frankly). Career services is not oriented towards the west coast, but that hasn't stopped me from getting deep into the interview process for internships west of Denver. The small cohort size (~50) has benefits and drawbacks, just as a larger cohort size does. The benefits are you get to be really close friends with a bunch of interesting people. I knew everyone in my class in about a week and all the 2nd years within a month. It's cool to be plugged in with a group of go-getters like these. The friendly atmosphere is also helped, as is access to - and personal attention from - your professors. Downsides are that is not as broad of an experience pool as there would be if the program were larger; as an enviro guy I recognize that there'd be some value in having ~30 tree huggers in my class instead of ~15. Also, you see the same people every day. Honestly, this is really a personal atmosphere/preference issue. I went to a small liberal arts school for undergrad, and I like the small class sizes at Duke - just the way I'm wired I guess. As we're knocking on the door of the deadline here, I would encourage anyone to email me directly with questions as I'll likely be able to get to them faster. I'm at garrett dot stiles at duke.edu Good luck with the decisions everyone, just remember that if you're looking between a bunch of great schools like these you can't lose!

Congrats man! It was great meeting you at Open House; you'll do well in this program. As for housing questions: you should've homestayed with me, you'd know how awesome my little neighborhood is I'm at 2201 Caroline Dr. - feel free to google map it and see about where it is. Most people live south or east of campus; I'm one of the holdouts on the west side (can't get the CA out of me I guess). I'm 4 miles and 3 stoplights from the Sanford parking lot, about a 10-12 minute drive down 751 through the Duke Forest. Tell you what, you've got my email address so feel free to ask me about any places you're looking at and I can give you the lowdown. The big decisions are apartment v. house, then location, then price IMO. I came out here sight-unseen with three days to go till classes and it worked out. Not that I'd recommend that, but it just shows that even last minute searching can be successful. Keep in touch and I'll see you in the fall. Unless this internship in Seal Beach works out.....

I'm convinced that career services across Duke are just off the charts. Every career center I've dealt with has blown me away. Sanford's is awesome, Fuqua's is insane, Nick's is great, even the undergrads have a career services setup I would never have imagined for professional schools, let alone undergrads. Hahaha, last year's too-big-of-a-class debacle at Nick is known campus-wide Every now and then the statistical models don't hold up. My undergrad has a dorm hall that is housed in the town's old hospital, which was purchased and converted to student housing after admissions suddenly had 30% more students than they were expecting back in the late '70s. Model fail

Sorry I've been away for a few days all, been a pretty crazy week (not to mention them Blue Devils!!!) Let me take a few of the questions: This is true - they've changed the process this year and are giving their best aid offer right off the bat. I think it's a better (and more professional, frankly) way of doing it rather than outright encouraging haggling like they did last year. But it does cut back on negotiating for more help of course. I'm sorry cost issues pushed you away from Sanford, best of luck wherever you're headed! "very late" was like the day before or day of the April 15th deadline as I recall. They really did come through with a great package at that point though. I committed Michigan for the 4/15 deadline then changed to Sanford about three or four weeks later. Good luck with Ford or wherever you decided to go - I'm sure you'll do well. And thanks for thinking I'm doing a good job - Sanford is a pretty easy place to say nice things about Hey Adrian! Hope you made it back safe and got some rest 1. Nope. No time. I don't think it's even allowed. A couple people - like 5 or so - had tutoring gigs or sports ref'ing part-time jobs when the program started but they've pretty much all dropped them. Really, you CAN'T work and be a full-time student at Sanford, there aren't enough hours in the week. The closest you can do is a TA/GA/RA assistantship for the semester that pays ~$4k (which is REALLY good $ per hour) in your 2nd and 3rd (and possibly 4th) semesters, but I'm at the point I may not do it next semester just because of the time issue. This is just a different program than say the DC ones that have you working internships while you're going to school. 2. Don't know - not a 2nd year yet 3. Hit-and-miss is probably a good way to describe Durham. There are some rough patches, but the "hits" really are nice. This is a niceer place than I expected, really. I hear you about being nervous walking into a place you don't know - I also moved here from San Diego and I just showed up three days before classes started, got a hotel room, and craigslisted my way around about 5 houses/apartments till I found this one I live in a house 4 miles from Sanford - 10 min. drive, 35 min. bike, 50 min. bus ride. I'm in the bottom floor of the house and a Duke PhD is in the upper floor; each floor has two bedrooms. $600/month, all utilities save electricity and internet included - so with a roommate I'm paying about $330 a month (absolutely insanely cheap!). It's a nice area and I've never felt unsafe or anything in my neighborhood.

The big thing here is deciding if you want a PhD or an MPP. They're both ENTIRELY different study, research, and career paths. If you choose PhD you've got your answer; if you choose MPP and have any questions about Sanford shoot me a message. Good luck, you've got a good "problem" to have!

I'm not sure exactly how the details are going to work out yet, but it certainly sounds like Obama helped us out a bit with this issue earlier today.

Thanks! Yeah, I want Fuqua I applied for R3 and have an interview on the 9th. If I get in this year it will be a dual degree MPP/MBA in 3 years. I only applied to Fuqua. I don't want an MBA per se, I want their MBA specifically, for several reasons that I can't go into with two papers due in about 6 hours. If I get in I'll go, unquestionably. If not, I doubt I'll re-apply next year unless my internship this summer is life-changing and I think I can get enough financial aid so that the debt load makes sense. After all, there's a "how has your application improved?" essay required for re-applicants; I would want to have a good answer and I don't necessarily see one developing between now and December. I think this is the last time I'll go back to school so I'd like to get it all done now if possible, and the MBA would help me do what I want: Corporate Social Responsibility Officer / Climate Change Officer at a big organization. So that's my reasoning. This is exactly what I'm seeing. We may learn more analytical stuff than the MBAs, but they have more options and make more money in the private sector (though I believe this situation may improve in time).

Makes sense - right on average for these degrees.