Revolution

If you don't have to take out a lot of loans, and you are genuinely intersted in the public sector, go to HKS. In that area, HKS name goes a long way, and the school is very well-suited for those career goals. Of course, it's totally natural to have cold feet as the decision date looms closer. Just ask yourself if you think going there will help you achieve your goals and whether you will be happy there.

I agree that SAIS should have a 80% range of salaries, but they claim that they do not keep track of such information. It's something that I'm very much interested in as well. Regarding your point, I'm willing to take out a loan and spend 2 years in grad school IF i think it will help me to achieve my professional and personal goals. The initial base salary isn't the most important factor to me, but the $90-95K figure is a number i picked out to ensure that i could maintain a similar standard of living as i do now.

Ha. This is actually accurate. A top MBA is a truly transformational epic experience: awesome professional and social opportunities on every level.

You're wrong again. It's about being in an environment where I can meet people whom I have a lot in common with. All else being equal, I'm much more likely to meet a woman with whom I can relate to, at a top b-school than some random bar. We most likely would have gone to similar top undergrads, have mutual friends, worked in similar jobs, and have similar life aspirations and goals.

1. I can't afford to take out a large loan at my age to risk coming out with a $65K salary. That would be a debacle. 2. Public sector work is less stressful and less hours, but aside from the money, the work isn't as interesting, and the people you are working with just aren't as bright or accomplished. If they were, they would be in the private sector, especially top jobs in finance/consulting.

Putnam, I actually read your entire post, which reeks of inaccuracies and self-righteousness. 1. This is a minor point, but when you refer to HYPS b-school>rest of M7, I laughed. First, Princeton does not have a business school. Second Yale's b-school is top 15, not M7. It's not that great of a program. 2. The reason why harvard extension or columbia general studies are denigrated is because pretty much anyone with a pulse can get in. And they are in the same classes as regular students, and that obviously pisses them off. 3. I do agree with you that ivy league admissions discriminates against asian-americans. You will get no argument from me on that front. But you overstate the presence of rich whites at both ivy undergrad and elite MBA programs. Most students at ivies are on financial aid; i believe the figure at harvard college is around 70%. And most students come from public high schools, not exclusive boarding schools such as andover or exeter. As for the mba population, about 30% of top U.S. schools are now international. And a lot of the Americans are people who went to good colleges, did well, and got jobs at top firms. Are some of them rich white legacies with connections? Sure. But they are by no means a sizable portion of the class at top b-schools. This isn't 1970 when HBS was filled with George W. Bush types. 4. I do not think there is any doubt that top MBA programs are more selective and attract a higher caliber of students than policy programs. If you really doubt this, then you need to get out more. The median student at any top 10 b-school is of higher caliber than the median at any policy program. 5. Last paragraph is just weird. You are making several points here, but they come across as jumbled and not very well-reasoned. First, as someone who took both the GMAT and the GRE and did well on both exams, I can assure you that the GMAT quant is much more challenging than GRE quant. Second, of course physics is harder than GMAT quant. I mean this is a total strawman argument, for no one is arguing that doing well on the GMAT quant is somehow indicative of mathematical genius. It just means that one is reasonably smart and can solve problems quickly and efficiently. It's fine to compare GMAT to GRE since they are both standardized exams with math sections but why the comparison to physics? Finally, you make a normative claim at the end that quants' talents could be better served by not being in finance. That's a personal judgment call. Finance, when harnessed properly, is essential to managing risk and efficiently allocating capital in an uncertain world. To say that these quants who use their talents to work on finance problems and enjoy the monetary benefits, are somehow selling themselves short by not working in science is pretty judgmental and reeks of typical liberal sanctimony. A brilliant quant does not owe the world anything; he is free to do whatever he wants with his skills.

Wow. This story is fucking awesome. Can't believe how sick the dating scene is at b-school. Intense 2-year environment of classes, networking, partying, and travelling with super smart, accomplished, and attractive women. *DROOL* http://poetsandquants.com/2011/01/27/the-eight-immutable-laws-of-mba-dating/

If it were in my power, I would gladly give my fellowship to an admit who badly wants to attend SAIS and would be happy there and add value to his class. Yeah, it's good to figure this out before making a boneheaded decision. Even my family and good friends thought I would be miserable and unhappy at SAIS; they're glad I'm turning it down since I would have gotten very little out of it.

Ouch. That stinks.

Thanks bro! Good luck to you as well. Just remember that when choosing a grad school, ask yourself 2 questions. First and foremost, will this school help me to achieve my professional and personal goals? Second, will I be happy at this school? It's much easier to figure out the answer to the first while the second is based on your own subjective assessment. For me, SAIS failed to satisfy both criteria, and as much as I like the academic curriculum, I had to turn it down. Hopefully, my fellowship money will go to an admitted applicant who is actually excited about attending SAIS and would be happy there.

I agree with pinkman on his critiques of points 1 and 2. With 3, i mean, i think it's clear that WWS and HKS are the most selective policy programs, so it's reasonable to assume that the student body as a whole is more qualified than other schools. I think he could have phrased that statement better. With respect to 4, I do think it's risky to go to HKS without funding just because of the Harvard name brand and the resources available at Harvard University as a whole. I do think though it's a bit extreme to compare HKS to the extension school, which basically accepts everyone.

I could be wrong on this since it's not my area of expertise, but I think SAIS is weak in the humanitarian aspect. However, SAIS IDEV is a much bigger name brand than the georgetown program, and I'm a strong believer that you should go to the best grad school you get into. The fact that you got IDEV funding (which is not easy) and you will acquire some important analytical tools, makes this an easy decision in my opinion. But you should definitely get opinions from people who know about this field way more than I do. Best of luck.

Congrats on the great offers! SAIS IDEV is an excellent program, and getting funding is even better. If you want to move across the public and private sectors, I think you should go with SAIS since the quantitative training will be very valuable in whatever you do.

No problem. Sidney is a great guy. I actually felt bad precisely because he was so nice and honest and at the same time was trying hard to sell me on SAIS. I love the SAIS curriculum and the depth of courses they offer in macroecon, international finance, monetary econ, etc. But my primary purpose in going to grad school is to get the job I want coming out. And unfortunately in that area, SAIS will not help me achieve my goals. Finally, I would be very unhappy at SAIS, upset that I'm not at a top MBA program and fantasizing about how much more awesome my life would be at those schools. For these reasons, I will be turning down SAIS despite the generous fellowship. Best of luck to you guys who will be attending SAIS. I wish you the best.

Thanks for this list!

If your GRE quant score was weak, study harder and retake the test. Good thing about the GRE, as opposed to the GMAT, is that you can cancel your scores once you have already seen it, and the school will never know that you even took it. So take it as many times as needed if that's what's holding you back. Also your statement of purpose should be very specific with respect to your goals and how SAIS can help you achieve them. The analytical essay doesn't need to be particularly insightful or brilliant; just pick a topic that you care about and discuss how it relates to your experience and interests and give your personal interpretation of that issue.

Ok. I just got off the phone with Sidney Jackson, director of admissions. First of all, he's a SUPER nice guy, very down to earth, and answered all of my questions honestly. Great guy. I can't say enough good things about him based on my interactions. Here were the questions I asked him and his answers. 1. Q: What is the recruiting like by financial firms? Do any of them visit campus? Have students been successful in breaking into this sector? Have career treks been useful? A: Financial firms have cut hiring massively, and students just aren't getting jobs at banks like they used to. I'm gonna be totally honest about this. They don't recruit on-campus, and so you would have to rely on the SAIS network and your own search. Students do go on career treks, which gives them exposure to firms and meet people, but thus far only a few students this year have been successful in getting finance jobs. 2. Q: how about institutions such as the world bank/imf/fed, etc.? A: Even hiring in those areas and other parts of the government have been slowing down since the government is also downsizing. Some of our presidential management fellows can't pursue the fellowship because they've been unable to get government jobs. As for the world bank, they mostly hire our international students, and the contract in on like a 1-year trial basis. So there's no job stability beyond that mark for the most part. 3. Q: any idea what the success rate is like for first-year SAIS students who apply to top MBA programs? A: about 10% of our class is joint MBA-MA, and some of them did apply during their first year here. Being SAIS is not necessarily helpful or a hindrance since admission to MBA programs is totally separate from MA. However, we do have information sessions with mba programs such as stanford and wharton, where admissions officers come to campus to talk to students. Being a SAIS student MIGHT help in the sense that it shows that you're at a rigorous grad program, have requisite quant/analytical skills, and if you can get a rec from a prof, that might help as well. So this is roughly the summary of what he told me. He also urged me to come to open house to get a better feel on the school, students, and culture. As of now, after this conversation, I'm about 90% confident that I will be turning down SAIS' half-tuition fellowship for D.C.

If MBB is your goal go to darden. Stern and Cornell are very weak with MBB.

All the M7 schools do well with MBB consulting, but after HBS, Kellogg is the strongest. My best friend is a second-year there, and he told me that each of the MBB hired roughly 30-40 of his classmates. For consulting, it's hard to beat that school, and they also have tons of fun. Very much a laid-back fratty environment; culturally, it's the total opposite of its cross-town rival, Chicago Booth. Very few non-mba policy students are prepared for rigorous MBB or finance interviews. Last summer I had dinner with a friend who did mit sloan-hks and is now working as a portfolio manager at a major mutual fund in Boston. He said that HKS students would e-mail him for advice on getting into finance, so he would tell them to forward their resumes so he could see if he can help them. He said their resumes were a total mess, and when he talked to them on the phone they didn't know what they were talking about. I then asked him, "would you have done just hks without the mba?" And he replied, "hell no."

Oh boy, you just opened up a can of worms. Don't even get me started on our president. I believe he is the worst president in terms of economic policy since Lyndon Johnson.

So true. These are rough times. This is a debate I have with my friends all the time. Is the current finance downturn merely cyclical, or is there a deeper paradigm shift going on? At bank trading desks, the low volume and volatility, the rise of algorithms, and regulations, are crushing once very profitable desks. Banks have been cutting people across all divisions. Private equity actually seems to have recovered due to the improvement in the credit market, and PE firms are finding relatively good deals, especially outside the U.S. As for hedge funds, it's a mixed bag. Macro funds have been having a hard time dealing with the current environment in which policymakers and central bankers are dictating the financial markets. Long-short equity and event driven are all over the map. Interesting times indeed.

I hear from wharton and booth next week, and I'm freaking out!!!!! If i get in, it will truly be a life changing event, one that will allow me access to my dream finance jobs and the best 2 years of my life. Good luck with stern and cornell!

Yeah, then ignore it. During the webinar did they give any actual specifics on finance recruiting and job placement? Or was it generic stuff you can find on the website?

UT Austin is good if you want to work in the energy sector in texas, but that's about it. I mean if that interests you then go for it, but otherwise darden wins out. What other schools are you waiting to hear from?

I'm hoping to get more clarification tomorrow. But from what i've gathered, sais does well with world bank/imf/fed, but it struggles with banks. I've reached out to a few SAIS alums via linkedin who are now doing similar work to what i'm interested in. And they said it was VERY hard to get their jobs and that career services gave them almost no support. I am also aware of the finance career treks to nyc, london, hong kong, and singapore, but treks aren't that useful at all in terms of getting jobs. Most of the jobs at banks are found through on-campus recruiting, and if banks don't officially recruit you really have to hustle like a madman. I could change my mind on this, but doing SAIS alone without a corresponding MBA is a HUGE gamble for me, one that could backfire badly, and the potential upside is quite limited. What evidence they give during the webinar that they are "very strong" for finance jobs in HK and Shanghai? Specific firms? Number of hires? As for the socializing, yeah if i do go to sais i will barely go out and basically be a hermit, focusing on classes and job search. It will be a far cry from b-school; that's for sure.