Revolution

Interesting to see what response you get. I unfortunately missed the career services presentation on monday morning. Either way, I agree with you that SAIS is being way too secretive on career placement, which for me is by far the most important criteria when selecting a grad school.

First, their tone towards my questions were quite dismissive. Second, I did not ask them for a detailed spreadsheet like the ones you can find for b-schools. I simply had a few basic questions on private sector recruiting, finance placement, and first-years who apply to mba programs. It doesn't speak well for a program if one of their staff members cannot at least address these points.

Got a response from the person at SAIS admissions regarding my questions. She said that career services are for students, but she will try to find someone who can answer some of my questions. Thus far, SAIS is not making a good impression at all. I get the sense that they are trying to reveal as little as possible about career placement or which firms actually hire sais students. Hopefully I'm wrong on this.

I actually have no interest in MBB consulting. Just brought it up as food for thought. SAIS is receiving VERY high volume of e-mails, so they told me that they will get back to me regarding my questions in the next few days to a week.

Thanks for this informative post. I've looked at SIPA's career placement, and they send a lot of people to ratings agencies in NYC (moody's, s&p) and some to banks for investment research type jobs. But bulk do seem to go into UN type of places. MBB consulting firms do NOT recruit at SAIS but do recruit at HKS, if i'm not mistaken. I could be wrong on this though. The point you raise does concern me a lot if i don't get into mba and have to do sais alone. Let's say i get interviews at banks or consulting firms, and the mba question comes up. Do I make up an elaborate story on why i chose sais or just admit that i didn't get into the top mba programs due to their hyper-competitive admissions, especially for finance guys? Lots to think about.

jm08, you seem to know both DC and Boston reasonably well. In terms of social prestige and clout, do you think SAIS carries more weight in DC than HKS does in Boston?

Do you guys think HKS MPA2 with no money is a better option than SAIS with half tuition scholarship? The argument would be that HKS is a better name brand, and due to MPA2's flexibility, one can take classes in econ departments, hbs, even MIT, and create their own path.

Why are people so scared of math? It's the foundation for everything.

Of course doing the work at goldman as an analyst is mind numbing and boring. But GETTING that job out of college is difficult. Same goes for MBB consulting. You need to have top grades from top colleges with decent extracurriculars, relevant internships, and then destroy the interviews. Very few fresh college grads working on the hill could get those jobs. I agree that boston sort of sucks if you're not a student. But given my professional interests, there are some amazing buyside firms there. You have long-only mutual funds such as fidelity, wellington, mfs, state street, putnam. Then you have major endowment funds at harvard and mit. And then interesting hedge funds such as convexity, bracebridge, high vista, weiss, alpha simplex, baupost, bain capital brookside, etc.

Very interesting points. Regarding SAIS being its own entity, can one argue that it could be a disadvantage since your potential network will be smaller than HKS given that at the latter you are part of harvard university and close to MIT as well as other schools in boston? I still have not gotten a clear answer from SAIS on the specific career resources questions I had. It looks like they're trying to dodge answering the tough questions that will guide my decision in the coming weeks.

DC is especially atrocious in this regard. The city attracts people who couldn't get top private sector jobs in nyc/boston/sf, etc. and come to DC to work in government/politics as some congressional aide, hoping to become the next clinton or obama. It's pretty amusing. MBA programs have a lot of arrogant people as well of course, but at the top schools most of the students are actually accomplished, with real work experience and leadership. Comparing them to Hill employees is not the right analogy.

Ok, that makes sense. There's no elite b-school in DC unfortunately, and the law students are unbearable. Hopefully the social scene will be solid as you have described. Thanks again for the detailed writeup.

Thanks for the thoughtful detailed response. I appreciate it! I will definitely take this into account in the coming weeks. I LOVE trivia nights!!!! My main concern with the DC social scene is that it revolves too much around government/law/policy and there's not too much industry diversity like in NYC and Boston. There's virtually no tech, startups, venture capital, hedge funds, private equity (except carlyle), investment management, etc. Please correct me if i'm wrong in this assessment.

Can you tell me more about the SAIS social scene? Is DC an ok city for students?

If you want to work in asia, then yes, taking out the loans for HKS is worth it precisely because the harvard name brand (irrespective of the actual program) is so huge there.

Huh? Who said anything about drugs and call girls? That's gross, and most MBA guys don't do that. I'm making that assessment based on the tuition of these programs and the median salaries of graduates. Yes, I'm fully aware that we don't know exactly what the median compensation is of policy grads 10+ years down the road. But we do know those figures for b-schools (i forgot the study, but you can goggle it and find it), and i'm pretty sure that MBA wins out easily. Regarding fun, i'm sure there are people who will enjoy policy programs more than mba.

Sure, it's expensive. But every empirical study has shown that a top MBA is worth it in the long-term, even if one takes on massive loans. You will most likely get $100-150K coming out, and then the benefits of the name brand, network, etc., accrue over time and intensify the further you get along in your career. After the professional benefits, you have the social benefits since through these experiences you form powerful relationships that last a lifetime. I would also argue that when you're old and look back fondly on your 2 years in b-school, you're not going to say, "oh geez, that was so expensive; i took out so much in loans!" Certain life experiences and memories cannot be quantified; 2 years at a top MBA is one of them. You do realize that a lot of ir/policy people are borrowing thousands to go to school, right? But the difference is that the economic value is not comparable to that of mba while not being as nearly as fun. So the way i see it, it's the MBAs who are making the right bet. Thanks for the good wishes! I appreciate it! If I'm lucky enough to get into wharton, i might still do a joint degree with SAIS and see you guys in fall 2014!

Yeah I believe the may/june ones are online.

My best friend was at that trip! He met his girlfriend and likely to be wife on a kellogg trip to eastern europe right before orientation.

Totally fair questions, so let me address them. First, top b-schools in general are fun because they're a 2-year vacation from boring work life. Grades don't really matter since most schools have grade non-disclosure (employers cannot ask your grades). Second, the mba is geared towards socializing, networking, and recruiting. There are literally social events every single day in the calendar; there is so much stuff going on that mba students joke about FOMO: fear of missing out. You have house parties, dinners, going to bars/clubs, dances and galas, costume parties, and travelling throughout the world. Harvard Business in particular takes this to an extreme level. I've been to a few of their parties, and they are super fun. HBS has for instance priscilla's ball, which is a drag party. They also have newport ball, a formal that takes place in upscale newport, rhode island. Then they have holidazzle, the annual christmas bash, as well as casino parties, boat cruise parties, countless costume parties, etc. More importantly, the people at HBS or top schools in general are some of the smartest, most interesting, and accomplished people you will ever meet. And for 2 years you are surrounded by these people in a very tight bonding experience, and it's just freaking amazing. It should come as no surprise then that a lot of people meet their future spouses in b-school. And from talking to tons of students and alums from these schools, not a single one regrets attending, even when some of them took out $200K in loans. A top MBA is truly a transformational experience, one that cannot be replicated elsewhere. As for what i'm looking for, i'm certainly not averse to hooking up, but i am looking for something a bit more long-term. MBA girls fit what i'm looking for, and the women at hbs/wharton/kellogg are actually pretty decent looking, in shape, and well put together. This 2008 article from Boston Magazine talks about the HBS social scene. It's also no secret that boston girls LOVE HBS guys. http://www.bostonmagazine.com/2008/08/aint-no-party-like-an-hbs-party/

The following thread from collegeconfidential a few years back was really interesting. I'm going to paste the part where a then-SAIS student is talking about the social scene. http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/286389-fletcher-vs-sais-3.html "Another note to the social life issue. In greater DC, the SAIS crowd can be insular, and they have a rep for being really arrogant. But I have to believe a lot of that was also owing to prejudice. Once we went to a SAIS, American, GW, Georgetown event and a woman introduced herself to me and a SAIS classmate with a great opener: "I've heard you guys think your god's gift to the world." Well, I am a humble person, but that's not a way to build bridges or elicit the most respectful reaction, though I tried to give one. She pretty much ran away. Another time I was at a party talking to a woman, and after 10 minutes she asked me the DC "where'd you go to school?" question. When I said SAIS, she said "wow, you've got to be the first SAIS student I have met who's not an arrogant f***." I think there was a kernel of truth to this, but I also think that people got so happily absorbed meeting a lot of their interesting classmates, that they got wrapped up in the group and the experience and seemed really self-absorbed from the outside. It looks bad, but it's a good place to be." Is this really true? Outside of DC pretty much no one knows SAIS, so a SAIS guy cannot use it to impress girls. In NYC or boston they would get humiliated by finance alpha males or HBS students/alums. Interesting to see whether the dynamic described in the post above really holds true in DC.

Regarding your last sentence, easy there chief with the ad hominem attacks. If I do go to SAIS i'm pretty sure i'll be one of the smartest students there, so you should calm down a bit.

I never took micro/macro so i have to take them through the sais online courses (which start in may) or somewhere else. I have to go back and check the details, but i think that means i can't do pre-term for econ since they're at the intermediate level.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, HBS parties are f*cking unreal. And knowing that the people you are getting wasted with will be the future leaders and tycoons of America makes it that much sweeter.

Fun DC parties? Lol. I guess you've never been to a hbs/wharton/kellogg/booth party. If you want to see real ballers, you gotta check out those parties, especially HBS. In my opinion, aside from celebrities, athletes, and insanely rich jetsetters, HBS students have the best social lives in America.