Rochester

[fj20]

I was denied admission to the PhD program but "invited to apply" to the master's program; I'm not entirely sure that this means I've actually been accepted to the latter program though. It does sound encouraging when it states that they've "been authorized to invite me to apply to the master's program so that they can offer me admission to their department as a member of the MA class." Any thoughts? I know someone else reported receiving the same letter. Also, what are people's general thoughts on accepting tempting offers like this on the rebound, after being disappointed by PhD rejections?

[bored54]

That the same reply she gave me when I asked, but other posters have said their info is that all accepted students have been contacted via email or phone already. I just don't know any more.

Waitlisted by postal service today. The letter was postmarked on the 10th. So, looks like there's still potential for ppl being waitlisted. Not sure what that looks like, but the letter suggests that the list is short.

[mityak]

Just out of curiosity, who are you all interested in studying with at Rochester?

[Nighthob]

Just out of curiosity, who are you all interested in studying with at Rochester?

My subfields are medieval literature and medievalism, so I'm interested in Lupack, Peck, Hahn, and Grella.

[mityak]

#

Edited March 15, 2010 by MityaK

[bored54]

My subfields are medieval literature and medievalism, so I'm interested in Lupack, Peck, Hahn, and Grella.

20th C. American Studies (lit & film), postcolonial, globalization, etc. Interested in working with Greta Aiyu Niu, John Michaels, Jeffrey Allen Tucker, amongst others.

[Nighthob]

I was denied admission to the PhD program but "invited to apply" to the master's program; I'm not entirely sure that this means I've actually been accepted to the latter program though. It does sound encouraging when it states that they've "been authorized to invite me to apply to the master's program so that they can offer me admission to their department as a member of the MA class." Any thoughts? I know someone else reported receiving the same letter. Also, what are people's general thoughts on accepting tempting offers like this on the rebound, after being disappointed by PhD rejections?

I received the same letter yesterday. I have very mixed feelings. On one hand, a friend pointed out to me that the potential recommendations are worth their weight in gold (or weight in education debt). On the other hand, I already have a Master's in a sister field which included many graduate level English classes. So, another Master's instead of a PhD, a year of debt when I could continue working at a job I love with great benefits.

Maybe I'm being cynical because of my disappointment, but it almost feels like a ploy to get additional income for the school. Or maybe it's their standard practice. Or maybe I'm overthinking it. It also looks from the results board like there's a separate waitlist for PhD applicants, so I can't even console myself by thinking the MA invitation is a waitlist consolation prize.

Ugh. I don't know what to do.

[yellowjackets]

20th C. American Studies (lit & film), postcolonial, globalization, etc. Interested in working with Greta Aiyu Niu, John Michaels, Jeffrey Allen Tucker, amongst others.

After sending my application, I carefully researched this program. Although it lists film as one of the major field areas for English PhD study. I’ve learned that it exists mainly for undergraduate study. There’s only one graduate film course offered every year, which is cross-listed as an undergrad course, and there has been only one Ph.D. dissertation in film in the last several years--this student’s supervisor was not even an English faculty member. The film and genre fiction courses (mostly taught by Grella) which had originally drawn me to this grad program are fairly large (probably lecture-type) courses with often an enrollment of over 35, so intended for undergrad students although grad students are allowed to take--many grad courses are cross-listed as undergrad courses here. I'd have no interest in taking such or any classes with undergrads. And it seems Grella and Middleton are not at all involved in graduate teaching and supervision. Some faculty members are old and looking at their retirement, so I doubt the ad committee would admit students for them. I've also learned that the degree completion rate of this program is pretty low, about two dissertations per year, and that very few graduates landed TT jobs over the years (only two, I think). The four dissertations out of six or seven completed in the last three years were supervised by John Michaels and Jeffrey Allen Tucker. So I guess these two are the most active fac members involved in graduate supervision. It seems that if you propose to study 20 C. American lit and don't tailor your SOP to reflect their research interests (very race-centered/African-American), you're highly unlikely to get in. Overall, Rochester looks like a school more geared toward undergrad education than grad, and the faculty try very hard to go out of their discipline and dabble in other areas, probably feeling the pressure from the administration after the well-publicized “Renaissance Plan” at Rochester. That's all I have to say. I hope this helps future applicants.

[mrj85]

I'm on the PhD waitlist. The letter didn't mention applying to the MA - I wonder why only rejected PhDs are invited to do so, when waitlists are as good as rejections in a majority of cases. I looked on the website and couldn't find any MA info at all... Any ideas?

Also, I emailed the DGS and got a really nice email that didn't tell me much - 10% of applicants admitted, another 10% on the waitlist, with decisions on the waitlist being made primarily based on intended field of study. Mine was 20th C writing focus (their subdivision), interest in Brit. and Am. modernism and postmodernism, contemporary Am. and Latino, blah blah blah.

If you're thinking of turning down your offer of acceptance, DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!

[yellowjackets]

I originally had no intention of doing this type of thing, but I think you need to be warned about George Grella. Check out what people think on ratemyprofessor.com. I can't explain the few favorable reviews. I've only heard bilious hatred about him. Don't let me dissuade you, the others you mentioned are brilliant-especially Peck.

I found the comment on Grella which you made to Nighthop. I hope you don't mind sharing this with others. Yes, I also saw the many unfavorable reviews after sending my application and I immediately realized I made a big mistake in my SOP. I guess he is relegated to teaching only large undergrad courses.

[bored54]

After sending my application, I carefully researched this program. Although it lists film as one of the major field areas for English PhD study. I’ve learned that it exists mainly for undergraduate study. There’s only one graduate film course offered every year, which is cross-listed as an undergrad course, and there has been only one Ph.D. dissertation in film in the last several years--this student’s supervisor was not even an English faculty member. The film and genre fiction courses (mostly taught by Grella) which had originally drawn me to this grad program are fairly large (probably lecture-type) courses with often an enrollment of over 35, so intended for undergrad students although grad students are allowed to take--many grad courses are cross-listed as undergrad courses here. I'd have no interest in taking such or any classes with undergrads. And it seems Grella and Middleton are not at all involved in graduate teaching and supervision. Some faculty members are old and looking at their retirement, so I doubt the ad committee would admit students for them. I've also learned that the degree completion rate of this program is pretty low, about two dissertations per year, and that very few graduates landed TT jobs over the years (only two, I think). The four dissertations out of six or seven completed in the last three years were supervised by John Michaels and Jeffrey Allen Tucker. So I guess these two are the most active fac members involved in graduate supervision. It seems that if you propose to study 20 C. American lit and don't tailor your SOP to reflect their research interests (very race-centered/African-American), you're highly unlikely to get in. Overall, Rochester looks like a school more geared toward undergrad education than grad, and the faculty try very hard to go out of their discipline and dabble in other areas, probably feeling the pressure from the administration after the well-publicized “Renaissance Plan” at Rochester. That's all I have to say. I hope this helps future applicants.

Well... I suppose we'll find out. I'm waitlisted.

[yellowjackets]

Well... I suppose we'll find out. I'm waitlisted.

Oh I forgot to add this. It seems that Rochester is primarily an engineering/tech/science school with very few strong arts programs. It's not Cornell, not even Buffalo.

[fj20]

Regarding Rochester's "invitation to apply" to the Master's Program: I followed through on this, and was told by the DGS to re-submit my online application, only this time checking "English MA" instead of "English PhD." So it doesn't look like this is just an automatic admission, although this application could just be a formality.

My guess would be that waitlisted PhD students have first shot at the Master's Program: if they don't get into the PhD program, then they'll probably be invited to apply to the MA program. They probably don't expect too many rejected PhD candidates to apply.

On a different note, does the general reputation of Rochester as a science school really matter? Isn't it common for individual departments, such as its English department, to be strong in spite of weaknesses elsewhere in the university?

[yellowjackets]

Regarding Rochester's "invitation to apply" to the Master's Program: I followed through on this, and was told by the DGS to re-submit my online application, only this time checking "English MA" instead of "English PhD." So it doesn't look like this is just an automatic admission, although this application could just be a formality.

My guess would be that waitlisted PhD students have first shot at the Master's Program: if they don't get into the PhD program, then they'll probably be invited to apply to the MA program. They probably don't expect too many rejected PhD candidates to apply.

On a different note, does the general reputation of Rochester as a science school really matter? Isn't it common for individual departments, such as its English department, to be strong in spite of weaknesses elsewhere in the university?

Rochester ranked 52nd in the US News English PhD program ranking 2009. I don't know if it's a strong program.

[yellowjackets]

Regarding Rochester's "invitation to apply" to the Master's Program: I followed through on this, and was told by the DGS to re-submit my online application, only this time checking "English MA" instead of "English PhD." So it doesn't look like this is just an automatic admission, although this application could just be a formality.

My guess would be that waitlisted PhD students have first shot at the Master's Program: if they don't get into the PhD program, then they'll probably be invited to apply to the MA program. They probably don't expect too many rejected PhD candidates to apply.

On a different note, does the general reputation of Rochester as a science school really matter? Isn't it common for individual departments, such as its English department, to be strong in spite of weaknesses elsewhere in the university?

Its English dept website calls its PhD program an "internationally recognized graduate program" which just made me laugh. I had never heard of Rochester before. Anyway good luck with your MA application. I am kind of mad at this program for making you go through this humiliating nonsense process. Don't they have any decency? No respect for you who's willing to pay for what may turn out to be a meaningless degree.

[bluellie]

Its English dept website calls its PhD program an "internationally recognized graduate program" which just made me laugh. I had never heard of Rochester before. Anyway good luck with your MA application. I am kind of mad at this program for making you go through this humiliating nonsense process. Don't they have any decency? No respect for you who's willing to pay for what may turn out to be a meaningless degree.

There is no application fee. Thus, resubmitting an application is gratis. Free. Costs nothing. Nada. Zilch. The school is not getting a dime out of its applicants during the application process. So the idea that they're asking applicants to reapply for the sake of money is complete nonsense.

I honestly believe that asking a candidate to resubmit their application is a silly computer/bureaucratic thing more than anyone wanting to make Ph.D. candidates jump through additional hoops to be considered as an M.A. candidate. I highly doubt it's anyone on the adcom power-tripping. As an M.A. applicant, I'm actually grateful that they're not just admitting Ph.D. candidates to the M.A. program before looking at the M.A. applicant pool. It seems like they would be reviewing everyone for the M.A. program at the same time. From my perspective, this policy of not automatically admitting Ph.D. applicants to the M.A. program is giving me (and other M.A. applicants like me) a fair shake at getting in. How is this wrong? How is this demeaning?

I'm sorry that not all the Ph.D. applicants who wanted to go didn't get in. That sucks and I sympathize. You still, however, have a second chance. Take it or don't, it's your choice. I wish those who do choose to reapply to the M.A. program the best of luck.

[yellowjackets]

There is no application fee. Thus, resubmitting an application is gratis. Free. Costs nothing. Nada. Zilch. The school is not getting a dime out of its applicants during the application process. So the idea that they're asking applicants to reapply for the sake of money is complete nonsense.

I honestly believe that asking a candidate to resubmit their application is a silly computer/bureaucratic thing more than anyone wanting to make Ph.D. candidates jump through additional hoops to be considered as an M.A. candidate. I highly doubt it's anyone on the adcom power-tripping. As an M.A. applicant, I'm actually grateful that they're not just admitting Ph.D. candidates to the M.A. program before looking at the M.A. applicant pool. It seems like they would be reviewing everyone for the M.A. program at the same time. From my perspective, this policy of not automatically admitting Ph.D. applicants to the M.A. program is giving me (and other M.A. applicants like me) a fair shake at getting in. How is this wrong? How is this demeaning?

I'm sorry that not all the Ph.D. applicants who wanted to go didn't get in. That sucks and I sympathize. You still, however, have a second chance. Take it or don't, it's your choice. I wish those who do choose to reapply to the M.A. program the best of luck.

GREAT!!! That's the way you go about it. Pay 16K, 20K or 36K for your MA! You go girl!

[bluellie]

GREAT!!! That's the way you go about it. Pay 16K, 20K or 36K for your MA! You go girl!

I'm sorry if I've said something to offend you. It was not my intent; my comment wasn't personal. If I misunderstood your original comment, then I apologize for that.

The lack of funding for the M.A. program sucks, agreed. Unfortunately, funding for an M.A. in general is harder to come by--even by those programs purported to offer assistantships or fellowships to MA students.

Nonetheless, yellowjackets, I'm curious as to what you think would be a better solution for those Ph.D. applicants that the department wants but cannot support. Should it waitlist them? Reject them? Admit them to the Ph.D. program without funding? How is being referred to the (unfunded) M.A. program any more demeaning than being outright rejected? Plenty of schools do this. It's not just Rochester.

So, yellowjackets, what course of action would you suggest?

Edited March 17, 2010 by bluellie

[yellowjackets]

The lack of funding for the M.A. program sucks, agreed. Unfortunately, funding for an M.A. in general is harder to come by--even by those programs purported to offer assistantships or fellowships to MA students.

I'm not offended at all. Sorry if it sounded sarcastic.

That's not true. Look around. There are plenty of funded MA programs. They are easy to get in. I have seen people get into top programs with an MA from an unknown program. In fact an unfunded MA doesn't look good when you apply to PhD programs. And no teaching experience doesn't do you any good either. Some say there's an exception like SUNY Buffalo but even there the majority of unfunded MAs don't get in anywhere.

If a program can't fund a student, it shouldn't admit. It's not worth paying any money for a humanities degree these days, especially considering the dismal academic job market, which has been talked about all over the blogoshpere and in the major newspapers. Where do you live? Do you live in the USA? Rochester's MA is like Chicago's MAPH and Columbia's MA. Haven't you heard of where these people end up after wasting tens of thousands dollars? Wake up girl! If you can't even get in one of those funded MA programs, I wonder how you can compete for a teaching job. There are more than 800 applicants (PhDs) for every TT position with a 4/4 teaching load at a crappy college in the middle of nowhere.

Edited March 17, 2010 by yellowjackets

[bored54]

I'm not offended at all. Sorry if it sounded sarcastic.

That's not true. Look around. There are plenty of funded MA programs. They are easy to get in. I have seen people get into top programs with an MA from an unknown program. In fact an unfunded MA doesn't look good when you apply to PhD programs. And no teaching experience doesn't do you any good either. Some say there's an exception like SUNY Buffalo but even there the majority of unfunded MAs don't get in anywhere.

If a program can't fund a student, it shouldn't admit. It's not worth paying any money for a humanities degree these days, especially considering the dismal academic job market, which has been talked about all over the blogoshpere and in the major newspapers. Where do you live? Do you live in the USA? Rochester's MA is like Chicago's MAPH and Columbia's MA. Haven't you heard of where these people end up after wasting tens of thousands dollars? Wake up girl! If you can't even get in one of those funded MA programs, I wonder how you can compete for a teaching job. There are more than 800 applicants (PhDs) for every TT position with a 4/4 teaching load at a crappy college in the middle of nowhere.

Lots of misinformed assumptions being thrown around here. While it is certainly true that " there are plenty of funded MA programs" (I'm currently in one), it is not true that "an unfunded MA doesn't look good when you apply to PhD programs" or that "they are easy to get in[to]." I would recommend seeking out this option first, but many people do a pay-your-way MA and go on to be very successful. As the euphemism suggests, it costs quite a bit, but if you can afford it, it can function as a very solid stepping stone for a good PhD program (especially Chicago's program).

[yellowjackets]

Lots of misinformed assumptions being thrown around here. While it is certainly true that " there are plenty of funded MA programs" (I'm currently in one)], it is not true that "an unfunded MA doesn't look good when you apply to PhD programs" or that "they are easy to get in[to]." I would recommend seeking out this option first, but many people do a pay-your-way MA and go on to be very successful. As the euphemism suggests, it costs quite a bit, but if you can afford it, it can function as a very solid stepping stone for a good PhD program (especially Chicago's program).

You can't even read my relatively short post correctly. I said, "[funded MA programs] are easy to get in [compared to getting into funded Ph.D. programs], and "an unfunded MA doesn't look good when you apply to PhD programs [compared to students with a funded MA, with all other things being equal]."

You say, "many people do a pay-your-way MA and go on to be very successful," and what does that mean "very successful"? Get into top programs? That's probably less than 1% of the entire unfunded MAs every year, although I admit Buffalo is an exception. FYI, Chicago's Ph.D. program hasn't admitted anyone from their MAPH program for years. In fact I haven't heard of anyone in their MAPH program getting into their Ph.D. program.

[bored54]

You can't even read my relatively short post correctly. I said, "[funded MA programs] are easy to get in [compared to getting into funded Ph.D. programs], and "an unfunded MA doesn't look good when you apply to PhD programs [compared to students with a funded MA, with all other things being equal]."

You say, "many people do a pay-your-way MA and go on to be very successful," and what does that mean "very successful"? Get into top programs? That's probably less than 1% of the entire unfunded MAs every year, although I admit Buffalo is an exception. FYI, Chicago's Ph.D. program hasn't admitted anyone from their MAPH program for years. In fact I haven't heard of anyone in their MAPH program getting into their Ph.D. program.

dang you shown me.

Edited March 17, 2010 by bored54

[mityak]

I'm not a huge student of film, but Rochester has a pretty good visual/cultural studies program with some really bright PhD. students. This may be something of interest. http://www.rochester.edu/college/aah/VCS/

[yellowjackets]

I'm not a huge student of film, but Rochester has a pretty good visual/cultural studies program with some really bright PhD. students. This may be something of interest. http://www.rochester...ollege/aah/VCS/

Nope. I don't know if it's a good program with "bright" students but it seems its graduates don't get any real jobs. I'm done with Rochester. The main reason I applied there was that there was no application fee. All the Ph.D. programs in humanities at Rochester are no good, I mean, in terms of job placement.

[bored54]

Nope. I don't know if it's a good program with "bright" students but it seems its graduates don't get any real jobs. I'm done with Rochester. The main reason I applied there was that there was no application fee. All the Ph.D. programs in humanities at Rochester are no good, I mean, in terms of job placement.

Cary Nelson seemed to get a decent job.