History MA: Prestige vs. $$$

[Katzenmusik]

Hi everybody!

I applied to way too many history programs--mostly MAs as I did not major in History as an undergrad--and I am still waiting to hear back from half of them!

Here are my range of positive results thus far:

1. Accepted to one middle-tier/non-prestigious PhD program - seems like I will NOT be offered funding (this has not been 100% confirmed yet but is my hunch).

2. Accepted to one Ivy League MA program which is offering 50% off tuition.

3. Accepted to a second Ivy League MA program which is NOT offering any funding but is only one year long, as opposed to the usual two years (making it the same price, essentially, as #2).

4. Strong interest shown from one mid-tier/non-prestigious MA program that WOULD offer full funding if I were admitted.

5. Admitted to unknown/very non-prestigious MA program which did not even respond to my emailed questions and is essentially off the table now.

The MA programs I am still waiting to hear back from will likely not fund me if I am admitted. The possibility exists, but I am not counting on it.

Initially I was strongly in favor of option #4, as I have always heard that one should avoid debt at all costs for a history degree, and while #4 is not name-brand, it is reputable and the professors are great.

However, perhaps at heart I am an elitist--I know it's wrong and very cash-cow-ish but I can't help thinking I should go to one of the Ivies I was admitted to, especially if I want to do a PhD later. In fact I discussed this a bit with some of the other prospective students for program #4 and they were amazed that I would turn down an Ivy to go there. They said it would be great to get to know certain Ivy League professors and have an "in," and that the chances I would be admitted to a top PhD program down the line would be greatly enhanced.

So what do you think? Take a financial hit in preparation for a PhD application in a few years? Or minimize debt and hope my work speaks for itself?

Edited March 10, 2010 by Katzenmusik

[TMP]

I would suggest posting this in the History forum... you might get very interesting answers! And these are people who KNOW grad admissions for history nearly inside out.

[HOUBMA]

First, I think its better to question what your ideal occupation would be. I am a history student, and the best thing any of my history professors told me was to not go into history unless I wanted to become a professor or scholar in the field. Therefore, if this is your aim (which I am assuming it should be), then I would definitely tackle the Ivy League educational opportunity. This is because you would have better access to scholars and professors, which would lead down a path to achieve your goal of attaining your PhD.

[TMP]

But the answers you would really receive from people who's been in history for grad school will tell you this. GO FOR THE MONEY. If your MA program has reputable professors in your field, you've got nothing to lose. No debt. Less debt is better for humanities. If B is Harvard, I would say flat out no.

[Katzenmusik]

Hi everyone!! Thank you so very much for your range of responses to my query!

I still am a bit undecided, and in the meantime have been admitted to yet another unfunded Ivy League history MA program! It's great to have these options, but I'm running myself a bit ragged with visits, emails, etc., all the while trying to figure out how selective these MA programs actually even are! (Is it a big deal that I have been admitted, or do they accept everyone who seems reasonable?)

My goal is to actually go into the public history field while leaving the door open to a PhD down the line!

[breakfast]

You mention you want to go into Public History. Are these public history programs you applied to, or just straight history?

If you go take a look at the Chronicle of Higher Education forums and read about the humanities in graduate school, you will see one piece of advice given over and over again. Do not go into debt for a degree in the humanities. Do not accept an offer if it is not fully funded.

What are you basing this "reputation" on? USNWR rankings? The name of the university? Forget it all. If the professors in the department are known and respected, that is all that matters. I don't know how many times I've said this, but if you asked your professors to write up a list of their top history programs in the US, it would probably differ greatly from the USNWR rankings.

If I was in your situation, I would take number four (unless another fully funded offer came along, then I would have to weight the pros and cons of each program). If you go into an MA program unfunded, you are nothing more than a cash cow for the department. How do you think ivy-league and other top-tier programs can offer such attractive funding packages to their PhD students. Large endowments are one part, but MA students suckered into attending the program based on the "prestige" (usually nothing more than the name of the university, or super-star faculty you won't have any access to (after all, you are nothing more than an unfunded MA)) are another part of it.

Before you seriously consider accepting an unfunded offer, head over to the Chronicle forums and ask those people. There are many professors and academics that post over there, many of them in history. I would be shocked if any of them suggested you attend any program that doesn't offer full funding. Read other topics from people in your situation (going into debt for a humanities degree).

Edited March 24, 2010 by breakfast

[Katzenmusik]

Thanks, breakfast. I have been obsessively reading internet sources on this topic, and my decision was A LOT easier before I visited one expensive MA program and fell in love with the school a bit. But you are very right. I need to go with the funding, and actually the faculty at the funded program have been WAY more welcoming and interested in me as a person. It seems like it's best to study for a few years in a place where people care enough about you to fund you rather than take your money to fund someone else.

I consciously TRY not to put stock in names and rankings and all that jazz but for whatever reason it is difficult to erase the association of Ivies and other elite schools with quality. I do appreciate your reality check and reminder that at some level it's just sort of silly. The faculty at all the schools I am considering are excellent.

Thanks again to everyone who responded with advice!!

Edited March 24, 2010 by Katzenmusik

[breakfast]

After reading my post again, I can see that I might have worded some of my thoughts a bit too strongly (a bad habit of mine online). I really hope that I alone didn't pressure you into making a decision one way or the other. Where you're going to spend the next few years doing research is a big decision, and I don't want any one person to influence that decision.

I urge anyone considering the same sort of offers to get a wide range of opinions, especially from those already in academia (which is why I recommended the Chronicle forums).

I know it's difficult to put aside the name and rankings of the institutions that accepted you. It also must be a pretty nice ego boost to get an acceptance at all from ivies and other top-ranked programs.

I'm going to post some links to relevant topics over on the Chronicle forums.

Link 1 - That one is pretty long, but it is full of great advice regarding debt and the humanities.

Link 2 - Good thread on MA programs

Good luck with whatever decision you do end up making!

Edited March 25, 2010 by breakfast

[Katzenmusik]

Haha, don't worry breakfast--I'm carefully considering it from every angle, not solely relying on strangers in internet forums, though I do appreciate their input. :-)

My thought process, for anyone else who is weighing a similar choice (there seem to be a lot of us)!

1. The more I started to think about this concept of debt, the more it frightened me. I like to live on the cheap, with the freedom and flexibility to not have a high-paying job. Paying off massive loans would put a crimp in that.

2. I got an opinion from an American history professor at a top program (friend of a friend), and he totally respects the funded MA school and actually recommended that I go there. Two PhD students in his department first went through this MA. There are highly-regarded professors at the school.

3. I applied this cycle without ANY experience in the history field. No research writing sample to send, no well-known history professors recommending me, minimal history courses on my transcript. I thought I would be rejected from EVERYWHERE. The fact that I did relatively well (and was even accepted to one PhD program!) gives me hope that, after the experience of an MA, I could swing myself up by the bootstraps into a PhD program that I am excited about. And if not, at least I won't owe a dime.

4. Very positive vibe from faculty and other students that I'm not quite getting from the more expensive MA programs.

[TMP]

A word from the wise: Keep your mouth zipped about your goal of going into public history, especially if you're intending on going for the PhD. There are a good number of historians do not like the idea of working with someone who isn't interested in being part of the academia but rather work in the industry. Even though AHA acknowledges it and urges doctoral programs to be more open to placing its students in jobs outside of the academia, departments are still quite interested in being professor-producing machines.

Only reveal it to very trusted people who will support you all the way.

I mean it. I am literally fighting tooth and nail trying to get into PhD programs even though my CV screams of public history experiences.