Appmath: UMN or CMU?

[oludom]

I major in applied mathematics and have received PhD offers from both UMN and CMU. UMN's applied math ranks very high(top 5), but its reputation cannot compare with CMU's. Besides, it's really cold in Minneapolis and winter lasts for 6 months. It's hard for me to make choice. Any suggestions?

[origin415]

What do you mean its reputation can't compare? UMN has a much better reputation for applied than CMU. For applied, UMN is 5 on US News, CMU is unranked. For math in general UMN is 17, CMU is 33.

Yes its really cold, but its not going to be too much warmer in Pittsburgh, and I personally wouldn't advise something like that to influence your decision so much. Research reputation and fit is a much better indicator than average winter temperature. Look at professors research interests, which school has more people doing something that sounds interesting to you?

Edited March 16, 2010 by origin415

[kdilks]

Minneapolis' temperatures are slightly deceiving, because the fact that it's drier there (at least compared to what I'm used to in Ann Arbor) makes the really cold temperatures not as bad as you might initially think.

Also, on top of Minnesota's Applied Math Department, you are also literally across the street from the Institute for Math and its Applications (http://www.ima.umn.edu/), which brings in a ton of visiting professors from around the country (and the globe). I'm not exactly sure what reputation you're referring to with CMU and applied math, I always thought their strong suits as a school were mainly engineering/comp sci.

[origin415]

Minneapolis' temperatures are slightly deceiving, because the fact that it's drier there (at least compared to what I'm used to in Ann Arbor) makes the really cold temperatures not as bad as you might initially think.

Don't know what you mean by that, dry cold is definitely worse. Less humidity means what water you have evaporates easier, making you colder (same reason dry heat is better), and the dry air/high wind is bad for your skin. Water also holds heat better, so it doesn't get as cold in the first place, particularly at night.

Not to scare the OP away! Just buy a coat and stay indoors. You'll be fine.

Edited March 16, 2010 by origin415

[lemur]

What do you mean its reputation can't compare? UMN has a much better reputation for applied than CMU.

I know nothing about Applied Math, but based on USNWR rankings alone, UMN is definitely a better program for math than CMU. But...

For applied, ..., CMU is unranked.

No... they're ranked 12th.

[kdilks]

Don't know what you mean by that, dry cold is definitely worse. Less humidity means what water you have evaporates easier, making you colder (same reason dry heat is better), and the dry air/high wind is bad for your skin. Water also holds heat better, so it doesn't get as cold in the first place, particularly at night.

Not to scare the OP away! Just buy a coat and stay indoors. You'll be fine.

I don't see how water evaporating is relevant at temperatures that are below freezing. If there's less humidity, it's easier for your body to warm the air entrapped by your clothes and stay warm. It also means that you get the same effective coldness in terms of heat in the air at higher temperatures.

[origin415]

I don't see how water evaporating is relevant at temperatures that are below freezing. If there's less humidity, it's easier for your body to warm the air entrapped by your clothes and stay warm. It also means that you get the same effective coldness in terms of heat in the air at higher temperatures.

Water will evaporate at any temperature. Heck solid ice can evaporate. Moisture evaporation is the reason it feels colder when its windier.

Dry air has a lower specific heat, so is worse at insulating you from the cold. It may be easier for you to warm, but by the same token its easier for the ambient air to cool. The air entrapped by your clothes and you typically starts out warm anyway, as you put clothes on indoors. So its a matter of how easy it is to stay warm, higher specific heat will mean it will need to lose more energy to cool.

We can argue this all day, but you are definitely not going to convince me that wet days are worse than dry days. The worst days of winter are the ones with not a cloud in the sky, when the air is bone dry and the wind is blowing. I've lived for 4 years in Buffalo, so I like to think I know a thing or two about winter.

Sorry, Lemur, should have been clearer, I just looked at the free version, which only shows the top 10.

Edited March 17, 2010 by origin415

[oludom]

What do you mean its reputation can't compare? UMN has a much better reputation for applied than CMU. For applied, UMN is 5 on US News, CMU is unranked. For math in general UMN is 17, CMU is 33.

Yes its really cold, but its not going to be too much warmer in Pittsburgh, and I personally wouldn't advise something like that to influence your decision so much. Research reputation and fit is a much better indicator than average winter temperature. Look at professors research interests, which school has more people doing something that sounds interesting to you?

Sorry..I don't mean that CMU has a better reputation for applied math.. I'm talking about the university's general reputation, especially outside the academic world... I wonder how many people outside the academic would know about UMN's strenth in applied math.

Edited March 17, 2010 by oludom

[kdilks]

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/wea00/wea00133.htm

"In our training at Penn State, one of our professors declared that high humidity makes it seem colder when the temperature is below 53 degrees F and warmer when the temperature is above 53 degrees F. This makes sense if you extrapolate the heat index chart downward to cooler temperatures. I also can attest to the cooling effect of high humidity at cool temperatures from working outside in a wide variety of humidity conditions during cold weather(including Barrow, Alaska). Because of this experience, I have always said that the most uncomfortable conditions to work in outside are with the temperature right around freezing and the relative humidity at near 100%. However, this has always been a subjective thing and not scientifically well determined."

David R. Cook

Atmospheric Research Section

Environmental Research Division

Argonne National Laboratory

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/weather/A0824520.html

"Cold air with high relative humidity “feels” colder than dry air of the same temperature because high humidity in cold weather increases the conduction of heat from the body. Conversely, hot air attended by high relative humidity “feels” warmer than it actually is because of an increased conduction of heat to the body combined with a lessening of the cooling effect afforded by evaporation. On the other hand, a low relative humidity “modifies” the effect of temperature extremes on the human body. Humidity decreases with altitude. Proximity to large bodies of water and the prevalence of moisture-bearing winds favor high humidity."

This corroborates with my experience of 20+ years in Ann Arbor and the most recent winter in Minneapolis. Even though Minneapolis was generally 10 degrees colder, the moisture from the Great Lakes made the two feel fairly comparable. I know my threshold for when it starts to feel cold enough so that I consider wearing long underwear, and that happened in the 10 to 12 range in Ann Arbor, and I didn't get that feeling until it was around 0 to -3 in Minneapolis.

[sapling]

Sorry..I don't mean that CMU has a better reputation for applied math.. I'm talking about the university's general reputation, especially outside the academic world... I wonder how many people outside the academic would know about UMN's strenth in applied math.

It is a tough choice... Yeah, I have known CMU ever since my early childhood, but did not know UMN untill stepping into University. However, UMN is really THE place for applied math. There is the biggest center there. And you can find prominent professors from almost every fields. After all, both universities are hard to resist.

Personally, I guess you should not weight too much on the climate. It is your research\career goal that counts. Which school is in line with your goal better? If I were you, I would also seek advice from professors from both universities. For example, Prof. Irene Fonseca graduated from UMN, and now is a professor at CMU. She might also give your some advice.

Hope it helps.

[oludom]

It is a tough choice... Yeah, I have known CMU ever since my early childhood, but did not know UMN untill stepping into University. However, UMN is really THE place for applied math. There is the biggest center there. And you can find prominent professors from almost every fields. After all, both universities are hard to resist.

Personally, I guess you should not weight too much on the climate. It is your research\career goal that counts. Which school is in line with your goal better? If I were you, I would also seek advice from professors from both universities. For example, Prof. Irene Fonseca graduated from UMN, and now is a professor at CMU. She might also give your some advice.

Hope it helps.

Wow, it' s really a cool idea to consult Professor Ierene Fonseca..

[origin415]

Sorry..I don't mean that CMU has a better reputation for applied math.. I'm talking about the university's general reputation, especially outside the academic world... I wonder how many people outside the academic would know about UMN's strenth in applied math.

People outside the world of applied math are not the ones who are going to be hiring you. The general reputation is completely meaningless.

[kowtown]

People outside the world of applied math are not the ones who are going to be hiring you. The general reputation is completely meaningless.

Agreed. Even if you're going into industry, with a PhD you're applying for a research position, and they will know UMN. However, CMU is obviously a great program as well, and Pittsburgh is a great city and an important hub of research (at least for statistics and computer science--I can't speak for applied math but I imagine there are opportunities). You really need to focus on their respective strengths in relation to your interests.