Department Size and Research

[grizg]

So I am trying to decide between UC Santa Cruz and UC Irvine (both math) right now. I would much rather live in Santa Cruz, but the department is small so I'm worried about finding research that I love and a good advisor. Do you think that it's a mistake to go to a small school if you are not sure what your research interest is?

[origin415]

If you have no idea what you want to do within math, than I would lean towards the bigger program. I would also keep in mind that there is a sizable gap in ranking, on US News Irvine is 44, SC is 75. Have you visited the schools? Talking to professors and taking a hard look and the area will give you more information to assist your decision.

[grizg]

If you have no idea what you want to do within math, than I would lean towards the bigger program. I would also keep in mind that there is a sizable gap in ranking, on US News Irvine is 44, SC is 75. Have you visited the schools? Talking to professors and taking a hard look and the area will give you more information to assist your decision.

Ya, but the NRC ranking (1995) puts Santa Cruz at 56 and Irvine at 63.5. In the 40+ range do rankings matter much? I guess I'm just wondering if it's completely stupid to start a PhD in a small program if I do have no idea what I want to do within math.

[qweticowoods]

Ya, but the NRC ranking (1995) puts Santa Cruz at 56 and Irvine at 63.5. In the 40+ range do rankings matter much? I guess I'm just wondering if it's completely stupid to start a PhD in a small program if I do have no idea what I want to do within math.

C'mon, guys. We're math majors. We should all know by now that most "ranking systems" are subjective, at best... and do little more than stroke the egos of those unaware of that fact . Choose the program that you feel you have the best chance of being successful at. IMHO, you'll have better luck at Irvine.

[origin415]

Ya, but the NRC ranking (1995) puts Santa Cruz at 56 and Irvine at 63.5. In the 40+ range do rankings matter much? I guess I'm just wondering if it's completely stupid to start a PhD in a small program if I do have no idea what I want to do within math.

I would say the difference there would be negligible, but I sorta trust US News' 2008 rankings more, a lot can happen in 13 years. Ask your professors what they think of both departments, that would probably give you the most complete picture. Generally ranking does matter less with lesser ranked schools, but 44 vs 74 is still a big gap and should be taken into consideration, I feel.

But if you main question is about small vs. big programs, then yes I agree that if you don't know what you are doing, larger programs are better. Otherwise you are limiting yourself before you even start exploring your options.

Edited March 18, 2010 by origin415

[BongRips69]

I have the same choice. I currently live in SB and would much rather live in Santa Cruz than Irvine, but it's further from family and I think UCI would be a better fit. I like the fact that they have regular course offerings in logic (in addition to a large number of people doing applied stuff). They both have a decent number of people doing geometry/dynamical systems type stuff... which is my primary interest.

I also have this IGERT from JHU's applied program hanging out there complicating the situation. Grrrrr...

[hmmmmm]

Take your interest into account if you know at least roughly what you are interested too. For example, number theory at UCI should be very decent, and if that's what you want/may want to do, this could be a factor.

[meathead]

I think I can help. I am an undergraduate at UCI. I've taken a lot of grad courses and know a lot of professors. Let me see if I can break down the quality of the departments by subject:

Logic: Very good logic program. We have Matt Foreman whose is very highly ranked. Martin Zeman is also a great logic professor. If you want to do descriptive set theory or model theory, this might be a good option for you.

algebra/number theory: There are only 4 professors working in this area. Professor Baranovsky (algebraic geometry) has a lot of students already, so I'm not sure if he is willing to accept any more. The other three number theorists are not accepting students at this time, but that doesn't mean that they won't change that for you . We have some very talented number theorists. Professor Rubin and Professor Silverberg both graduated from Princeton and have A LOT of accomplishments. Professor Wan solved a very substantial problem of Dwork's and he is very highly ranked.

Differential Geometry: I don't know of any graduate students working in this area. We have a really good faculty (Professors Lee, Palais, Terng, Lu), however, I don't think they are actively accepting graduate students. If any were accepting students, it would be professor Lu. They have had multiple postdocs since I've been here. You should email for best results.

Analysis: I know we have some really talented analysts like Yeh, but I'm not too familiar with the department.

Dynamical Systems: I know of at least one professor (Anton Gorodetski) who works in this area. He is very talented. He also did his postdoc at Caltech. Matt Foreman and Donald Saari also work in this department.

Mathematical Physics: We have Abel Klein. He has done a lot of amazing work with spectral theory and functional analysis in Quantum Mechanics. He graduated from MIT. We also have at least one other professor in this area but I don't remember her name.

Applied Math: The applied math at Irvine is generally very good especially if you are interested in mathematical biology. If you are interested in this area I would suggest working with Komarova. She is very approachable and very talented. There are a lot of professors that do differential equations. There is also at least one professor who does image processing. Because we have such a great chemistry and biology departments, I know there is a lot of work that is interdisciplinary. Check this link for more information: http://www.math.uci.edu/research/applied.math.php

Topology: I think that Stern is the only real (as in actual) topologist. I don't think he is around very much, though.

Exams:

The exams at UCI are a little odd. When you enter you have to take two advisory exams in algebra and basic real analysis. You can find copies of past exams on UCI's website. If you don't pass algebra, you are forced to take a beginning algebra course. Same with the analysis exam. If you do pass them, or if you pass the courses you are forced to take, you must take the comprehensive exams in analysis and algebra. These are generally a little harder than the advisory exams. Once you pass the comprehensive exams, you must take the qualifying exams. The qualifying exams are usually much harder than the comprehensive exams. I've been told the exam situation at UCI is very stressful.

Sorry for the inevitable bad grammar throughout this post. I've written this up in a hurry. If there is anything else you would like to know, let me know.

Edited March 26, 2010 by meathead

[mrb]

As someone who has applied to grad schools for the fall, data like what meathead has provided concerns me. I have pretty broad interests, but there are things I really have no desire to work in (like applied stuff, for instance). I didn't apply to UCI, but if I had, I would probably be figuring that I could potentially work with someone in algebra, number theory, or differential geometry. And then I would arrive and apparently discover that none of the faculty in those areas were taking students.

[BongRips69]

Mrb, this just makes researching and visiting potential schools all the more important. The department webpage is a good first order stab at this process. UCI's department webpage doesn't even have a research group for algebra, and the two groups with more than 4 faculty listed are "Mathematical and Computational Biology" (6 listed) and "Applied Mathematics" (13). Also, hopefully your statement of purpose completely conveys your interests. Even if you're an outstanding candidate, I'm guessing you'd have a difficult time getting accepted if your interests were in algebra. And once you've been accepted, I've found it's important to talk to professors and graduate students. Usually this is easy, as they will contact you (as they are interested in you). Hopefully, you never choose a place and simply arrive without have going through the necessary steps!

The exams at UCI definitely look a little foreboding! Do they expect people to usually pass the advisory exams? Geez, if I accept this offer I'm going to have to study my ass off... those things look difficult!

[BongRips69]

Anybody going to UCI visit day on Friday?