Duke vs. Syracuse

[tammy-san]

I know there has been a lot of these threads already, but what the hey. I made a spreadsheet weighing the pros and cons of each school and then preceded to stare at it for a good two hrs. In the interest of not having to chalk it up to whichever bball team makes it deeper into the tournament, any insight or opinions would be highly appreciated.

Duke (MPP Sanford):

Pros:

-Small cohort

-excellent career service people and job placement record

-familiarity, friends in the area

- I like the managerial focus of the program and the emphasis on gaining a practical skill set

-strong RPCV presence, a good sign for me

-strong interdisciplinary interaction between Law, Fuqua, and Nicolas

-the weather (although, I heard it snowed quite a bit this year; at least for North Carolina)

-I find Durham charming and quirky.

-Honestly, having had a great undergrad experience, I just love Duke

Cons:

- "been there, done that" factor

-More expensive, less funding; I barely make any money now, so I really don't have any savings to go off of.

-Options for summer internship for the Global Policy concentration appears to be confined to Geneva

-Core requirements may make taking all the electives I really want to somewhat restrictive.

***

Syracuse (MPA/IR duel degree at Maxwell)

Pros:

- graduate assistantship that is hard to turn down; potential to do interesting research with a professor in my field

-tuition is lower overall

-huge supportive alumni base

-many international students, a good sign for me

-can spend a semester or two studying/interning in a developing country (exciting and important for me, because I eventually want a career in international development; more experience in the field, the better)

-as someone else has mentioned, two degrees for the price of one.

-get to live in a new place

Cons:

-Not being able to visit, I would be going in blind

-Similarly, I can't seem to find more people to talk about the program with or someone who is in the program now (not necessarily a bad sign, and may be just a matter of sending the right e-mail)

-as someone else mention, internship at own cost

-large cohort (??? Not sure about this)

-Winters will be really cold

-After 4 years of the Cameron experience, everything else may pale in comparison.

Other factors:

It's been really hard for me to compare the the two programs head to head, because MPAs are different from MPPs. Not sure what the difference may be in terms of career options....

Edited March 18, 2010 by tammy-san

[stilesg57]

...I made a spreadsheet weighing the pros and cons of each school...

Whelp, clearly you'll do well at either of them

This is a really tough call, almost a coin flip. Pretty similar programs, the intangibles mostly balance out, and the alumni/career situation is absolutely top notch for both. There is no clear answer on this one.

Think of it this way though: you may be frustrated now, but in a year when you've been learning a ton in a great program you'll look back at this and think "what a great problem to have had!"

[tammy-san]

Whelp, clearly you'll do well at either of them

This is a really tough call, almost a coin flip. Pretty similar programs, the intangibles mostly balance out, and the alumni/career situation is absolutely top notch for both. There is no clear answer on this one.

Think of it this way though: you may be frustrated now, but in a year when you've been learning a ton in a great program you'll look back at this and think "what a great problem to have had!"

Thanks for the reassurance!

On a totally unrelated note, I meant "proceeded to stare" not preceded...spelling and grammar were never my forte!

[Paradoxex22]

I won't comment on Syracuse, but I will clarify a couple of the Duke points.

"-Options for summer internship for the Global Policy concentration appears to be confined to Geneva"

This is the only option they actively advertise...and why not. Interning at the UN is a nice perk. However, roughly half of the career services personnel work to find internationally-focused students opportunities. Duke University also has a Microfinance initiative that is sending a policy student to Uganda this summer to do development work. An MPP went last year as well, so this is not a once-in-a-blue-moon affair. Also, last year a student interned at an NGO in Ghana, another in Central America, and another in Tanzania. We also had a student work at the UN in Rome. You have to work hard to get international work/internships anywhere, but you definitely are not "confined" at Sanford.

"-Core requirements may make taking all the electives I really want to somewhat restrictive."

Your first year you will find challenging and lacking in electives. Your second year you have much more liberty. I took three electives each semester this year (my 2nd), and have enjoyed myself thoroughly. I don't know Syracuse's curriculum, but at Duke those core classes are what establish the practical skills you value.

Good luck deciding. Either way you will do fine.

[tammy-san]

I won't comment on Syracuse, but I will clarify a couple of the Duke points.

"-Options for summer internship for the Global Policy concentration appears to be confined to Geneva"

This is the only option they actively advertise...and why not. Interning at the UN is a nice perk. However, roughly half of the career services personnel work to find internationally-focused students opportunities. Duke University also has a Microfinance initiative that is sending a policy student to Uganda this summer to do development work. An MPP went last year as well, so this is not a once-in-a-blue-moon affair. Also, last year a student interned at an NGO in Ghana, another in Central America, and another in Tanzania. We also had a student work at the UN in Rome. You have to work hard to get international work/internships anywhere, but you definitely are not "confined" at Sanford.

"-Core requirements may make taking all the electives I really want to somewhat restrictive."

Your first year you will find challenging and lacking in electives. Your second year you have much more liberty. I took three electives each semester this year (my 2nd), and have enjoyed myself thoroughly. I don't know Syracuse's curriculum, but at Duke those core classes are what establish the practical skills you value.

Good luck deciding. Either way you will do fine.

Hmmm...interesting. Thanks for the clarification! I always appreciated the fact that Duke had the resources and personnel to help you pursue the course of study you really wanted....if you were convincing and persistent enough of course...

[Paradoxex22]

Hmmm...interesting. Thanks for the clarification! I always appreciated the fact that Duke had the resources and personnel to help you pursue the course of study you really wanted....if you were convincing and persistent enough of course...

I should clarify my above post.

Getting international experience in this economy is difficult. It is no harder at Duke than any other institution. International jobs are pursued by hyper-qualified professionals as well as graduate students. Many career employees embattled by the current economy have resorted to working for peanuts and health care in international fields they enjoy more than their former jobs. Graduate students can still succeed, but it does take a certain perseverance that was not needed in past eras. That statement is true at Maxwell, Sanford, and even SIPA.

I would encourage you to email the career services staff at Duke if international internships are truly one of your main concerns. Note that you are interested in opportunities outside Geneva.

Good luck.

[tammy-san]

will do. again thanks.

[Minerva473]

How many electives do you get to take at Duke (didn't apply there)? I've noticed that the MPA- MA-IR program at Syracuse is pretty jam packed. Unless you pass out of stats and micro the first elective you can take is in the spring of your first year (assuming you take the core courses all first). Then if you do an internship abroad, your choices of electives are limited by where you do the internship (though it sounds like the DC and Santiago courses aren't bad, haven't looked at the others in detail). Looks like in total you take 7 electives and the internship.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Minerva473

[tammy-san]

Hi there Minerva!

Thanks for pointing that out. Again, one of the "cons" about Syracuse is that I know less about the program overall.

Have you looked at the IR handbook? I found it online here (http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/ir_graduate.aspx?id=6442451215) and I find it is a lot more helpful than the MPA handbook that was sent to us.

How many electives you can take depends on whether you decide to finish your degree in 6 or 7 semesters. The 7 semester course track is for people who want to do two semesters abroad. In that cause, yes, I think you barely get to take any electives.

[fadeindreams]

Duke's gonna lose to University of Arkansas - Pine Bluff tomorrow. Due to that, I'd pick the Orangemen.

[Minerva473]

Hi there Minerva!

Thanks for pointing that out. Again, one of the "cons" about Syracuse is that I know less about the program overall.

Have you looked at the IR handbook? I found it online here (http://www.maxwell.s...x?id=6442451215) and I find it is a lot more helpful than the MPA handbook that was sent to us.

How many electives you can take depends on whether you decide to finish your degree in 6 or 7 semesters. The 7 semester course track is for people who want to do two semesters abroad. In that cause, yes, I think you barely get to take any electives.

Yes -- I wish they made that handbook more obvious - it's very helpful. I'm choosing between Maxwell and Fletcher right now, and Fletcher is probably one of the most flexible degrees out there so I'm quite torn. But I'm more and more convinced that Maxwell is a very strong program and that Fletcher isn't worth the extra $30k-$35k in debt. Maxwell's visit weekend is end of March (apparently they're going to videotape it which is great because I can't go) and Fletcher has an admitted students reception in my city at the beginning of April, so I'll probably wait till then to make my decision. Good luck!

[stilesg57]

Duke's gonna lose to University of Arkansas - Pine Bluff tomorrow. Due to that, I'd pick the Orangemen.

Oh, whatever! Final Four baby, here we come!

[stilesg57]

How many electives do you get to take at Duke (didn't apply there)? I've noticed that the MPA- MA-IR program at Syracuse is pretty jam packed. Unless you pass out of stats and micro the first elective you can take is in the spring of your first year (assuming you take the core courses all first). Then if you do an internship abroad, your choices of electives are limited by where you do the internship (though it sounds like the DC and Santiago courses aren't bad, haven't looked at the others in detail). Looks like in total you take 7 electives and the internship.

Regarding Duke, I've posted this somewhere else but I thought it would apply here. Someone was asking about specializing in a policy area when there aren't many elective openings:

There are two schools of thought on specialization at Sanford.

The first says that there are a ton of great resources for most specialization

tracks (especially the Global, Health, and Social Policy concentrations)

including incredible professors, an outstanding fellow group of students, and

other campus resources that go along with attending a world-class institution

like Duke. You can even focus on your favorite policy topic from within the

core courses; many assignments and papers allow you to choose to do them in

light of an education, environmental, health, or international relations focus.

Also, the Spring Consulting Project your first year will most likely be related

to your area of interest, and your Master's Project definitely will be.

The other school of thought is that the program doesn't allow a whole lot of

electives because there are so many core courses. There's only about five

openings in the two years, which frustrates some people.

So there are two ways to look at it. I was primarily concerned with the latter

when I was shopping schools and marked it as a negative against Sanford, but now

that I'm in the program I think the first scenario is the more accurate one. I don't

know of anybody having a problem specializing in their desired field.

[stilesg57]

Yes -- I wish they made that handbook more obvious - it's very helpful. I'm choosing between Maxwell and Fletcher right now, and Fletcher is probably one of the most flexible degrees out there so I'm quite torn. But I'm more and more convinced that Maxwell is a very strong program and that Fletcher isn't worth the extra $30k-$35k in debt. Maxwell's visit weekend is end of March (apparently they're going to videotape it which is great because I can't go) and Fletcher has an admitted students reception in my city at the beginning of April, so I'll probably wait till then to make my decision. Good luck!

Caveat: Other than an alumna who's a good friend, I don't know much about Fletcher.

That said, when I was working in DC, before I even knew what an MPP/MPA degree was, I knew about Maxwell. That program's alumni base in is famous in DC - jeez, I think even "The West Wing" mentioned it in an episode. Orange is worn proudly in the District. Fletcher, however, I hadn't heard of until I got on these boards and decided to look it up.

So on name recognition alone - particularly recognition for a fervent alumni base - I'd have to give Maxwell a slight edge in profile over Fletcher. That's just my opinion though and name recognition isn't everything of course; it could be that I was only in certain circles in DC.

[Minerva473]

Caveat: Other than an alumna who's a good friend, I don't know much about Fletcher.

That said, when I was working in DC, before I even knew what an MPP/MPA degree was, I knew about Maxwell. That program's alumni base in is famous in DC - jeez, I think even "The West Wing" mentioned it in an episode. Orange is worn proudly in the District. Fletcher, however, I hadn't heard of until I got on these boards and decided to look it up.

So on name recognition alone - particularly recognition for a fervent alumni base - I'd have to give Maxwell a slight edge in profile over Fletcher. That's just my opinion though and name recognition isn't everything of course; it could be that I was only in certain circles in DC.

Wow, I would have thought Fletcher would be more well known. It's possible that more Fletcher grads go work around the world rather than DC, since it's exclusively an international affairs school, whereas Maxwell is famous for the MPA program which is domestic in focus.

[Minerva473]

Syracuse (MPA/IR duel degree at Maxwell)

Cons

-large cohort (??? Not sure about this)

Okay, I went on the Maxwell website and counted - the most recent MPA class is 144 students and for IR (they are more kind and list this) it's 109. I'm sure there's a few dual degrees in there, I'm guessing total for the two programs would be around 240 to 250.

[stilesg57]

Wow, I would have thought Fletcher would be more well known. It's possible that more Fletcher grads go work around the world rather than DC, since it's exclusively an international affairs school, whereas Maxwell is famous for the MPA program which is domestic in focus.

Very possible. I met my Fletcher friend in Beijing last spring when I was living there, so you may have a point.

[tammy-san]

Okay, I went on the Maxwell website and counted - the most recent MPA class is 144 students and for IR (they are more kind and list this) it's 109. I'm sure there's a few dual degrees in there, I'm guessing total for the two programs would be around 240 to 250.

Thanks yet again Minerva for the info. I'm still wavering back and forth.

I'm also waiting to see if I'm getting a FLAS from Syracuse. If so, I think that would pretty much seal the deal...unless Duke somehow counters with an amazing offer...I highly doubt!