Languages

[The Dude]

After wading through the threads on the GRE and GPA, I thought I would start one about something important to most historians...

What role do you think language ability plays in the application? My program requires Latin, German, and French. Since I am competent in all three, I would like to think I have an advantage over others that are not as advanced in their languages. I have noticed that some schools make a point to say that language skills are a definite plus, but I haven't seen any relevant discussion on this forum.

So, what do you think?

[historygirl]

I think in the fields that have a serious language requirement, such as classics, medieval, Middle East, and Asia, no one will get into the top programs without good language prep. I'm a medievalist, and I was told that they want to see proficiency in Latin and at least two years for French and German.

Yet...every year they get a gazillion applicants with excellent language prep. The ones that don't are usually gone in the first cut, but that still leaves an awful lot. Think of language prep like the GRE and GPA. They can't really help you (because everyone that's truly in the running will have great GRE, GPA, and language prep), but they can hurt you if they are below the norm.

[The Dude]

Thanks for the reply. I assumed that most undergraduates applying to a PhD program would likely have language shortcomings, mostly because I am already an MA student and have had to take 2 language classes each semester on top of my coursework. Most of the students (even at the PhD level) coming into my current program (late medieval/early modern Europe) usually have only one good language.

[Verold]

Have you been accepted to any programs yet?

[The Dude]

Have you been accepted to any programs yet?

I only applied to 2 programs because I can stay where I am. I haven't heard from either one. A new school would be a big trade up in the school's overall reputation, but I'm already working with an advisor who is a renowned leader in the field so I can stay here and be satisfied. Also, if I get into one of my target schools, I'll be going "home" and the area is better for my wife's career. So, there are lots of intangible but important reasons why I want to make the move...

[Minnesotan]

You sound like a Medievalist, so I would agree with the above. Languages are very important to the application, only in terms of opening the gate. It's the statement, WS, and LoRs that will allow you to walk inside.

You probably can have 1-2 strong languages and 1-2 deficiencies, though, if it's a long program (i.e. 8 years after the BA). I know they expect you will do summer language work in other areas of history.

[Cornell07]

According to one of my undergrad profs, he says that language ability is fantastically important in the whole application process and that his admissions committee often must pick cull applicants on this basis

[scirefaciat]

What about people who do weird/dead languages? I am pretty good with Latin, but I have next to no French or German -- I took Spanish in high school and Scottish Gaelic in college. I'm in the process of learning Middle Welsh and can muddle through very basic Irish. Would that look good on an application, or would i look more like a dilletante?

[The Dude]

What about people who do weird/dead languages? I am pretty good with Latin, but I have next to no French or German -- I took Spanish in high school and Scottish Gaelic in college. I'm in the process of learning Middle Welsh and can muddle through very basic Irish. Would that look good on an application, or would i look more like a dilletante?

I think it's a good thing. An interest and aptitude in languages is a strong asset for an historian (access to more sources...), so I can't see how it would hurt.

[historygirl]

What about people who do weird/dead languages? I am pretty good with Latin, but I have next to no French or German -- I took Spanish in high school and Scottish Gaelic in college. I'm in the process of learning Middle Welsh and can muddle through very basic Irish. Would that look good on an application, or would i look more like a dilletante?

It really depends on what specifically you want to study. If you're a medievalist, most programs require French, German, and Latin...period. A few allow you to replace one of those (French or German) with another relevant language, but most don't.

Also, again, they want to see some proficiency by the time you enter. Not just the "I can pass the department language test" proficiency, but real proficiency. The reason for this is the coursework doesn't allow a lot of time to prepare languages as well. Also, some of those first-year classes require reading knowledge off the bat to even function in the class.

Of course, this depends on the program. I would question the quality of a program that doesn't require some proficiency before entrance, though, because I suspect they are less concerned with graduating students in a timely manner or the ultimate success of the students.

[scirefaciat]

Well, to be fair, my latin is pretty good. I took three years of it in college, and worked on my own quite a bit on more medieval stuff. The reason my languages tend toward Celtic is because while I am a medievalist, I specialize in the British Isles -- the Celtic fringe in particular. This probably won't help me with the language requirements, but I'm hoping that the languages I already have will at least exhibit my ability to learn languages.

[dmh26]

I know that language was necessary for my application. I study Russian history, and to be competitive my schools wanted at least two years of Russian, but three or four certinaly make you more competitive. They also require knowledge of French or German, but these are usually obtained in grad schools. Also, study abroad in the area you study also impresses the committee!

[historygirl]

Well, to be fair, my latin is pretty good. I took three years of it in college, and worked on my own quite a bit on more medieval stuff. The reason my languages tend toward Celtic is because while I am a medievalist, I specialize in the British Isles -- the Celtic fringe in particular. This probably won't help me with the language requirements, but I'm hoping that the languages I already have will at least exhibit my ability to learn languages.

I study the same thing, particularly ecclesiastical. The Celtic languages will help with actual research, no doubt. The programs, though, will still want to see French and German. Part of this is because the core research has documents in both, and part is because there is quite a bit of important scholarship in those languages.

Out of curiosity, where did you apply, and with whom did you want to work? (You can PM me if you don't want that to be public information.)

[rising_star]

I'm not in history but... I'm wondering how those of you who need to learn or brush up on languages plan to do so while in graduate school. Are you going to do summer programs, audit classes during the school year, live abroad, or something else?

[amanda1655]

I plan on taking some language courses this summer but most of the universities I applied to also have reading courses designed to help students pass the exam rather than the develop full proficiency in the language. There are also books designed to develop reading ability in languages.

[nicacar]

I study modern Middle Eastern history [specifically, nineteenth century Ottoman Empire]. I had to learn Arabic and Hebrew. I'll have to learn Turkish too, but my school didn't offer that.

[Historylover]

Any thoughts on those of us interested in American history? I have a bit of a language background with intermediate spanish, and I have an excellent experience in statistics. I just hope that my program doesn't hold my not having mastered a language yet against me as I have little to no use for it in my research.

[Minnesotan]

I could stand to brush up on two of my many poorly-spoken/read languages for research purposes, but yeah... the only reason I would truly need to have a strong language ability in U.S. History is for the departmental qualifications. German and French might be marginally helpful for journal articles treating continental/Atlantic history, but if you're studying Modern Midwest Farm History, or something similarly anglocentric, there's little point.

I guess it depends on your research. It could be essential, or completely irrelevant.

[scirefaciat]

The one thing I can say about being rejected this year -- it gives me the chance to take some German and French classes before reapplying to new and better programs next year.

I'm aiming for Notre Dame for Medieval Studies next year (among other places) and the practically require that you have German, French and Latin before you start, at least, thats what it seems like from what I've been reading.

So yeah. Definitely taking all of your advice -- do you recommend something like Rosetta Stone, or a physical academic class?

[luvalicious]

From all the programs I've seen, its the ability to read and maybe write the language that they want. If it's just reading/writing. Rosetta Stone or similar will probably do you okay. But if you want to be able to converse, then I'd suggest a classroom approach. I'm an ESL tutor and this is what I usually recommend for my students -- in fact, if you can get a tutor that'd probably be a great way to get the best of both worlds, and cheaper than a class too.

Hope that helped.

[Historylover]

Some public libraries have free access for its patrons to the Rossetta Stone. So I would check with your local public library before buying it.

[rising_star]

A lot of the Foreign Service Institute stuff is available for download now for free. Though of course, I can't find the link right now.

[historygirl]

FSI: http://www.fsi-language-courses.com/