NYU IFA

[georgica2]

Has anyone actually been admitted to IFA's PhD program for Art History? I looked over the results, and I see a few rejections and a bunch of rejected-PhD-admitted-MA (including myself), but no outright PhD admits.

Also wondering if anyone has more in depth information about the new IFA program structures. The website is pretty vague and only refers to "proposed changes" but nothing definite. In the old system, everyone started out in the MA, regardless of whether or not they were going for a terminal masters or a PhD, and after completing the IFA MA, students could ask to proceed to the PhD (subject to faculty approval.) Now that they've split the program into 2 tracks, MA and direct PhD, I'm wondering how this affects incoming MAs. Can MA students who perform well in the program continue to the PhD (obviously there are no guarantees, but assuming an acceptable level of work in the MA) or do they have to do a totally new application as if they were outside applicants? IFA was one of my top choices, but I have another offer from a PhD program, and I don't know if I can justify going to IFA if I'd have to completely reapply in 2 years.

[RedPotato]

I did not apply, but I did call and ask them many questions about the MA track. The reason they have proposed changes and not definitive information is that they submitted the plan to the accreditation board, and have not heard back yet. When they do get an answer, they will post the facts. Additionally, the MA program is not a "back way" into the phd program. Its an MA, and then you reapply. Thats really all they said they knew.

[shadow]

I did not apply, but I did call and ask them many questions about the MA track. The reason they have proposed changes and not definitive information is that they submitted the plan to the accreditation board, and have not heard back yet. When they do get an answer, they will post the facts. Additionally, the MA program is not a "back way" into the phd program. Its an MA, and then you reapply. Thats really all they said they knew.

The requirements are different. For the PhD track, all of the old requirements stay the same (amount of courses, two languages, two QPs before you get to your PHD coursework). For the MA track you only need one language, you have to take a foundations course (I think) in addition to the other 9, and you only do one MA's thesis.

It's been acknowledged that the new MA track is meant to be a way to generate money for the IFA. By making it a seperate (paid) track, they are able to promise their PhD students funding in a way they were never able to before (since they never knew how many students out of one class would continue on to the PhD, they were never really able to plan ahead).

[shadow]

http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/fineart/pdfs/academics/Masters_degree.pdf

That website outlines the differences.

[nowhere13]

For anyone who has gotten funding at the IFA, can you mention any details about the stipend? Thanks!

[georgica2]

It's been acknowledged that the new MA track is meant to be a way to generate money for the IFA. By making it a seperate (paid) track, they are able to promise their PhD students funding in a way they were never able to before (since they never knew how many students out of one class would continue on to the PhD, they were never really able to plan ahead).

That's basically what I was afraid of. Honestly, a part of me sort of wishes that I hadn't asked to be considered for the MA so I wouldn't have to choose, and could happily go on to CUNY PhD program without any doubts. However, since I have yet to be offered any sort of funding at CUNY (and given the sorry state of their finances, probably won't) the money is less of an issue right now than whether or not the new MA is "worth it," so to speak. Is anyone seriously considering the IFA MA? Specifically anyone who is hoping to get a PhD, or weighing it against a PhD offer? Pros/Cons?

Shadow -- that was the website I was referring to. It only speaks of "proposed changes" and is somewhat vague on the specific details, so I was wondering if anyone had more information (i.e. had spoken to people at IFA directly.)

[shadow]

Shadow -- that was the website I was referring to. It only speaks of "proposed changes" and is somewhat vague on the specific details, so I was wondering if anyone had more information (i.e. had spoken to people at IFA directly.)

[nowhere13]

As for stipends - getting funding is rare, and stipends even more rare. The only people I know with stipends are on the phd level and they are in the 5k range per semester. But that was before this whole new system, so it might change. The good thing is NYU pays extremely well for TA-ing (6k). The bad thing is, with such a large program, competition for those spots is fierce. But if you can snag one, then it really pays off, both in experience and financially. It also used to be if you got married, in 95% of the cases, you lost your funding the very next semester. A bit antiquated, but it's the IFA. That's how they rolled. It will be nice to know that PhD students won't have to worry about that anymore.

Oh wow, do you know if that's true for the Conservation program as well? 5k seems....unlivable. Even with a part-time job, I think that would be tough for a city like NY. Do most people take out loans there? Can you TA in the Conservation program as well? I'm just worried that even if I somehow get in, I won't be able to afford it!

[shadow]

Oh wow, do you know if that's true for the Conservation program as well? 5k seems....unlivable. Even with a part-time job, I think that would be tough for a city like NY. Do most people take out loans there? Can you TA in the Conservation program as well? I'm just worried that even if I somehow get in, I won't be able to afford it!

There could definitely be bigger stipends out there, but not that anyone has fessed up to me. A lot of people end up with stafford loans (unsubsidized and subsidized), or working within the IFA or around the city. The conservation program is a different ballgame. I don't know what, exactly, their financial support is, but I know it is much more generous than the IFA/Art History has been traditionally, mostly because they are independently funded. I'm not sure if conservation students TA - no reason they couldn't apply for it, I suppose, but their courseload is way more intense than the Art History track (they just have a lot more) and they don't really need the experience as much, or at all, in most cases. I can tell you, even with my tuition and health care covered, multiple travel stipends, a small living stipend, and a subsidized book fund, I am still 30k in debt after the IFA. Its just the reality of that program and living in NYC that you will probably go in to debt, unless you are on the new PhD track. But like I said conservation is completely different....

[nowhere13]

There could definitely be bigger stipends out there, but not that anyone has fessed up to me. A lot of people end up with stafford loans (unsubsidized and subsidized), or working within the IFA or around the city. The conservation program is a different ballgame. I don't know what, exactly, their financial support is, but I know it is much more generous than the IFA/Art History has been traditionally, mostly because they are independently funded. I'm not sure if conservation students TA - no reason they couldn't apply for it, I suppose, but their courseload is way more intense than the Art History track (they just have a lot more) and they don't really need the experience as much, or at all, in most cases. I can tell you, even with my tuition and health care covered, multiple travel stipends, a small living stipend, and a subsidized book fund, I am still 30k in debt after the IFA. Its just the reality of that program and living in NYC that you will probably go in to debt, unless you are on the new PhD track. But like I said conservation is completely different....

Oh wow, thanks, that's really helpful. Would you recommend the programs there in general though? In terms of academics and the people there. I hear the IFA can be somewhat catty but I don't know if the Conservation program is like that. I hear its more insulated and close-knit.

[shadow]

Oh wow, thanks, that's really helpful. Would you recommend the programs there in general though? In terms of academics and the people there. I hear the IFA can be somewhat catty but I don't know if the Conservation program is like that. I hear its more insulated and close-knit.

All the rumors you've heard about the IFA ...the cattiness, the competition between students, the faculty not caring, the traditionalism... they're all true. However, how much they are true depends on the incoming class and your subfield. I'd say it very much depends on what field you are in, what you want to do with the degree afterwards, how wealthy you are, and how much your interests match with your faculty advisor, and how willing you are to work out of area. For what I am doing, though, I would never have paid to go the IFA for my master's degree.I loved my advisor, we got along well, but ultimately, when it came time to decide if I wanted to stay for the PhD (and I could have) the environment was not one I wanted to be in any longer, and the degree from the IFA was not going to make me as competitive in my particular field.

The conservation school is much more insulated and close-knit and I don't think they have the same issues to the same degree. They're contained in their own building, so it does very much feel like a seperate place, even though they are around a lot and we're all (mostly) friendly.

[nowhere13]

All the rumors you've heard about the IFA ...the cattiness, the competition between students, the faculty not caring, the traditionalism... they're all true. However, how much they are true depends on the incoming class and your subfield. I'd say it very much depends on what field you are in, what you want to do with the degree afterwards, how wealthy you are, and how much your interests match with your faculty advisor, and how willing you are to work out of area. For what I am doing, though, I would never have paid to go the IFA for my master's degree.I loved my advisor, we got along well, but ultimately, when it came time to decide if I wanted to stay for the PhD (and I could have) the environment was not one I wanted to be in any longer, and the degree from the IFA was not going to make me as competitive in my particular field.

The conservation school is much more insulated and close-knit and I don't think they have the same issues to the same degree. They're contained in their own building, so it does very much feel like a seperate place, even though they are around a lot and we're all (mostly) friendly.

I appreciate your honesty. I guess I'll see if I even get in and how much funding I get and then make a decision based on that. The cost is really my greatest concern if I somehow get in, which I'm not really expecting. Thanks!

[shadow]

I appreciate your honesty. I guess I'll see if I even get in and how much funding I get and then make a decision based on that. The cost is really my greatest concern if I somehow get in, which I'm not really expecting. Thanks!

If you get in for conservation, you should absolutely, 100% go. I have a lot of friends both in school for conservation, and trying to get into school for conservation, and it is one of the hardest things to get into school for.... people wait years, and typically they say you have to apply three or four times before it works out. The IFA is one of THE top programs for conservation, and no matter what funding you get, you should definitely take an offer from them if one came. Besides, at least conservators make some money after they get out of school....

[nowhere13]

If you get in for conservation, you should absolutely, 100% go. I have a lot of friends both in school for conservation, and trying to get into school for conservation, and it is one of the hardest things to get into school for.... people wait years, and typically they say you have to apply three or four times before it works out. The IFA is one of THE top programs for conservation, and no matter what funding you get, you should definitely take an offer from them if one came. Besides, at least conservators make some money after they get out of school....

I have spoken with conservators who basically say the same thing (i.e. that getting into a program is one of the hardest things to do). If you don't mind me asking, your friends who are in conservation programs now, what are their backgrounds? Do they like the program at the IFA?

I have a double major in physics and art history from a top-tier school, but not a ton of studio experience. I am working on that now.

[shadow]

I have spoken with conservators who basically say the same thing (i.e. that getting into a program is one of the hardest things to do). If you don't mind me asking, your friends who are in conservation programs now, what are their backgrounds? Do they like the program at the IFA?

I have a double major in physics and art history from a top-tier school, but not a ton of studio experience. I am working on that now.

Well the most important things to have are the organic chem and pre-program experience, in terms of what I have heard. Then comes the portfolio. Of most of the people I know, the studio art background is where they were weakest, because many were archaeologists. I think the pre-program experience, though, was the one thing everywhere and everyone stressed, and it is also the hardest thing to come by..... places don't want you workign with objects if you aren't trained, and if you don't work with objects, you can't get into school to get training. It's this stupid, viscious cycle... but even if you have to volunteer and remove tape from things for 6 months before getting to do real treatments, it is still worth it. I think nearly every program wants you to have some sort of preprogram experience.

All of the conservators I know have been really happy with the IFA conservation program - so that's a good thing!

[nowhere13]

Well the most important things to have are the organic chem and pre-program experience, in terms of what I have heard. Then comes the portfolio. Of most of the people I know, the studio art background is where they were weakest, because many were archaeologists. I think the pre-program experience, though, was the one thing everywhere and everyone stressed, and it is also the hardest thing to come by..... places don't want you workign with objects if you aren't trained, and if you don't work with objects, you can't get into school to get training. It's this stupid, viscious cycle... but even if you have to volunteer and remove tape from things for 6 months before getting to do real treatments, it is still worth it. I think nearly every program wants you to have some sort of preprogram experience.

All of the conservators I know have been really happy with the IFA conservation program - so that's a good thing!

That's very interesting since I asked the IFA if they wanted or preferred experience prior to the program and the response I got was essentially "no". The person I spoke to pretty much alluded to the fact that they preferred people to not have any direct conservation experience...which I found somewhat odd. I know for the portfolio, they have a strict limit on the number of items you can present that are actual conservation work pieces. I don't have any experience personally, but we'll see how things go. I'm really not expecting to get in this year anyway....although obviously I'd be thrilled if I did!

I'm glad they were happy with the program though! That's definitely a great sign.

[Agamemnon]

Anyone know how IFA ranks for Greek and Roman art?

[clv]

I applied to, and was accepted to, the MA History of Art at the IFA. You will probably think I'm quite naive but, though I did my research, I'm not that familiar with the American system. Is the MA seriously a moneyed degree? If it is, I'd feel pretty stupid - we don't need the GRE over here so I had to pay to take it at the other side of another country!

I guess what I'm asking is if this is a course that anyone who can pay would get into? Or should I be scraping for alternative funding and taking out loans to take it?

Again, apologies for the naivity.

[clv]

"naivity"

And apologies for the spelling mistake. Hell, I work 12 hours a day, what do you expect

[Guest Amon-Ra]

Hey all-- Is it just me, or have there been a LOT of NYU IFA acceptances this round? What, if anything, do we make of this? Isn't it supposed to be a super-competitive program?

[Hugh10]

mefoarth - Their website claims to accept 40 students a year, so I don't think this acceptance is out of the ordinary. And this is the MA program, you can't compare it to the 10 or less students accepted to direct-entry PhD programs.

clv - I don't think that that's the case. It seems that most graduate programs need/want first year students and MA students to pay tuition - whether its because they need it to subsidize phd students or because they don't want to waste money on people who will drop out - either way if you're not a direct to PhD student I wouldn't take it as a sign that the school is less reputable (or just taking you for your money) just because you're being asked to pay.

(but also when I spoke to them on the phone they mentioned that this MA degree is really more geared towards those who want to enter commercial art - so take that for what it is)

shadow (Or anyone else who has been to the IFA) I've heard a lot about the students - but what about the professors - What kinds of relationships do they have with their students? Did you find them to be generally available and friendly - or was it difficult to get feedback from them? Do they socialize with the students or keep to themselves? I realize I'm asking about all the professors - but maybe you can generalize about the atmosphere and the advising situation? - it would be really helpful, thanks!

[shadow]

40-50 is about typical for an incoming class at the IFA. Having a big class has both pros and cons. First off, it is nice having a big group of people - and if you are coming from out of town you automatically have a peer group. This gets tricky though because there isn't the pressure to make friends outside of the IFA as there is at other programs, where there are only 5-10 grad students, so it gets a bit tense at times, as everyone works, studys, and plays together. Also although it is a big group, it is by no means diverse. It is predominantly white, young women from upper middle class families.

The IFA is definitely not a program that you can just pay your way in to, though having money does help your chances for admission. At most programs these days, if you aren't intending to go on to the phd, you don't get funding for your master's degree. I think what people are concerned about with the IFA's program is that it is operating a very large MA program, and seems to be using it to generate revenue. Keep in mind though the professors are all the same ones that the PhD students work with and the classes are all the same ones the PhD students take (they posted their fall classes, by the way- a lot look great).

<<shadow (Or anyone else who has been to the IFA) I've heard a lot about the students - but what about the professors - What kinds of relationships do they have with their students? Did you find them to be generally available and friendly - or was it difficult to get feedback from them? Do they socialize with the students or keep to themselves? I realize I'm asking about all the professors - but maybe you can generalize about the atmosphere and the advising situation? - it would be really helpful, thanks!>>

It depends professor to professor. My area is small, so I got to know my professor before I even came to the IFA (I was local). Others have 20 students at a time wanting their attention, so it gets really hard to be memorable. Overall I've found that students have to fight to be noticed, especially at the MA level (since you split your classes between 5 different areas, you don't end up taking a ton of classes with the same prof). I think a lot of professors come to the IFA cause mainly for them it is a research institute. They only have to teach two courses (sometimes one) a semester, to graduate students, which compared to many other programs is an incredibly light load, so they don't really see their first duty as always being to the students, the way it is at other programs. They tend to keep to themselves, and aren't very friendly (though this depends), and are very insultated. It isn't really until PhD level that a sense of comraderie develops. One of the hardest things is doing your out of area QP because it requires working with an out of area prof, who isn't always excited to work with someone who isn't an expert in thier particular field. So you have to be careful when chosing who to work with. The good thing is that overall the other students will be honest with you and warn you about certain professors. So just ask around....

(Obviously I'm generalizing too, and some professors are awesome to work with..... I can be more specific over PM).

[nycart]

All of these points noted, I'm still excited about being accepted and attending the IFA's MA program in the fall. Hey, we deserve a pat on the back, even if for the next two years we'll be scrambling for attention and crying in the bathroom...

Off the current topic - I'm planning on attending one of the Spring colloquium events on April 15 at the IFA (I believe on Argentine abstraction?), just to check it out and get acquainted. If any other recently-admitted students in the NY area are around please feel free to join! IT would be fun to "meet and greet" and attend with another fellow Fall 2010 colleague...

[shadow]

All of these points noted, I'm still excited about being accepted and attending the IFA's MA program in the fall. Hey, we deserve a pat on the back, even if for the next two years we'll be scrambling for attention and crying in the bathroom...

Off the current topic - I'm planning on attending one of the Spring colloquium events on April 15 at the IFA (I believe on Argentine abstraction?), just to check it out and get acquainted. If any other recently-admitted students in the NY area are around please feel free to join! IT would be fun to "meet and greet" and attend with another fellow Fall 2010 colleague...

...there is a bathroom that we have dubbed the "Stall of Tears." But I'm glad you are excited - for some people, and some sub disciplines, it's absolutely the right place to be.

[Guest Amon-Ra]

...there is a bathroom that we have dubbed the "Stall of Tears." But I'm glad you are excited - for some people, and some sub disciplines, it's absolutely the right place to be.

Which people? Which subdisciplines? Please, please share your wisdom. I was really excited to get in, but this place is starting to sound like Dante's Inferno!