Help with MA dilemma...

[fortk315]

Hey guys,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. This season, after a year off after my BA, I applied to 5 schools for Modern European History and got unanimously rejected from the three PhD programs I applied to, and accepted into the 2 MA programs. Although my ego is a bit bruised from not getting into a PhD right away, I'm not totally surprised given the competitiveness of the season and my low GRE scores, which I think was a major weakness in my application. So, I'm totally prepared to spend a year or two completing my MA, getting another thesis under my belt and raising my GRE scores to re-apply to PhD programs in a couple years.

Thing is, I don't know which of the two MA programs to go to. I'm going to talk to my former professors to get their input, but any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated!

School 1:

Fordham University, which gave me absolutely no money, so I'd have to take out loans to cover the entire cost of the program. That's $30,000 on top of the 20k I'm already carrying from undergrad (and boy are those loan companies persistent in their calls!). I don't really know much about the program's reputation, but it seems like it provides a solid grounding in historical training (methadology, etc), has a thesis requirement and requires a language proficiency to graduate, which would beef up my future applications as well. There's one professor that I'd really like to work with, but as I said, I really don't know much about the reputation of the program. I'll hopefully be visiting the campus soon and requested to speak with someone in the department in the coming weeks, so that should help...they haven't really reached out to me at all: it seems very much like "you can come, but we're not going to act like we REALLY want you here." However, I came from a very liberal, "outside the box" undergrad, and it seems like Fordham, as an older institution, would provide me with some more traditional training and basics that I missed in college.

School 2:

New School for Social Research, which gave me a 50% tuition scholarship...so only $15,000 I'd have to take out in loans! However, I'm pretty sure that their reputation in History is not very well established. Also, New School is my alma mater, which I know is frowned upon. Since it's a small university, the undergrad history professors are mostly the same as the grad ones, I'd be taking classes with the same people I've been taking classes with for the past four years. Although they do require a thesis, their curriculum seems a lot less structured than Fordham's, and they really only have two required classes you have to take. I love the school, took grad classes there as an undergrad, and love the non-traditional nature...but I worry that it won't give me a solid enough foundation (or good enough reputation) to get me into a good PhD program. I'm really only considering them because I love the school and the money they threw at me is hard to ignore...but I worry that the fact that it's my alma mater and that it's not very well-established (it's not even a "history" MA, it's "historical studies") will reflect poorly in my future PhD applications.

I'm very torn, so any advice you have is very, very welcome!! I'm happy I got in SOMEWHERE, but it's certainly a dilemma. FYI, I am planning on talking with someone at both schools to ask about details, MA-to-PhD rate, etc. And location doesn't matter, since I'm already living in Brooklyn. Thanks!

[Dirt]

Also, New School is my alma mater, which I know is frowned upon.

Frowned upon by whom?

Look, New School wants to give you money to study things that you find interesting. That's a rare thing, and I'd jump on it. Especially if the alternative is paying a ridiculous amount of money--Fordham's a good school, but in my view no M.A. program is worth $30,000 in loans. Heck, it's questionable whether any Ph.D. program is worth that.

I have no doubt that you missed out on some things as an undergrad. So did I, and so did everyone else on this board. That's not something unique to "non-traditional" programs. History is an unimaginably large field, and it's literally impossible to cover everything. What you ought to do, in my opinion, is the following: figure out what you missed that is important to you, and study it. Have I mentioned the benefits of being given money to do this?

[TMP]

Frowned upon by whom?

What the OP meant by that is that in the academia, it's much better to have your degrees from different places.

Which is why OP's having a hard time deciding. Back to the alma mater where s/he might not "grow" as a historian because s/he is dealing with professors s/he has had with same ideas, or go to a new department but have to pay all that money.

If I were you, I would get in contact with your potential advisoers at PhD programs that you were rejected from and ask what they think. You need to get outside faculty opinions.

[StrangeLight]

the new school does have a good reputation for history. certainly no better or worse than fordham's reputation. and the loans you're taking out will only cover tuition. you still need to meet living expenses, and unless you're living with family for free, that will add to your costs. you won't have the time to take a part-time job to meet your expenses.

also, most history MA programs require methodological training, one language proficiency, and the completion of a thesis. that's not something unique to fordham.

my sense is that fordham's not really on a higher level than the new school. doing your BA and MA at the same institution is fine as long as you do the PhD elsewhere. if it were me, i'd jump on the new school's offer.

[Riotbeard]

New School is badass, and fordham is not ranked that well to worry about paying extra money! Somebody at one of the programs I am considering, got a fully funded offer at the PhD program after an MA at the New School with the same degree you are considering! This school is ranked much higher than Fordham (This School is ranked 50-60, Fordham is ranked around 100). I do not usually put much stock in the rankings, but you seem to be asking whether your money would be worth this "strategic" choice, and I don't think it will be. Good luck, I think the theoretical and more liberal education (that the new school provides) may be more beneficial than a "traditional" program. Best of luck, thats my 2 cents.

[fortk315]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input.

Yes, New School IS badass, and I love it...I'd absolutely jump on the offer were it not for the fact that I had done my undergrad there. I am going to seek outside faculty opinions, but I agree with what you all are saying, and it's silly to spend an extra $15,000 on an similarly-ranked program. Plus, the New School "campus" is a much easier commute to an from work/my apt and I really do love the faculty, students and general philosophy of the university. My trepidation came from not wanting to have two degrees from one place, but I absolutely WILL NOT do my PhD there, because a) they don't provide full funding for PhDs and you can't get a straight history degree...it's a joint program with either PoliSci or Sociology. So hopefully getting my MA and BA from the same place won't be an issue when I apply for PhD programs in the future.

I think I was a little naive going into this application season, assuming that being the departmental darling translated into a guaranteed acceptance. When I apply again in a couple years, I will certainly be more aware of the competitiveness and my own abilities. Hopefully having an MA under my belt and more research experience will help. Good luck to all of you in the upcoming school year!