full funding v. better school?

[cybe2001]

Thanks for the post, dant.gwyrdd, but your sketch of the situation might be somewhat off target.

What I am referring to is the position of what the Dutch call 'Assistant in Training' which is a position in which you are offered 4 years of employment to work towards your PhD degree (85%) and are required to do some teaching (15%). In the Netherlands, you'd be paid approx. € 24.504 (before taxes), annually in the first year, increasing to about € 31.344 in the fourth.

English and German programs usually last three years, do not offer formal employment, but do tend to come with a fellowship. For instance, the University of Mannheim, known for its solid training in quantitative Sociology, offers annual scholarships to all incoming PhD students ammounting to € 14.400 free from taxes (see http://cdss.uni-mannheim.de/198.html). The famous École Normale Supérieure in Paris offers three year scholarships for foreign students of € 12.000 tax free (see http://www.ens.fr/spip.php?rubrique29).

Let me stress this point: there is no tuition in such programs. PhD training is considered as a job and or an investment in itself. The university pays for your education.

[dant.gwyrdd]

That's all swell in a no debt situation. Depending on how long she could deffer debt payments, if she were to have to pay it back while on her PhD program and if she'll have to return over $700/mo as one poster mentioned, she would need to set aside about 500, 550 EUR/mo which comes to 6000-6600 EUR/year for debt payments alone. Plus she'd need around 800 EUR/mo for living expenses (for Paris, Berlin, etc.) which is about 9600 EUR/year, and to go home once a year would cost 600-800 EUR depending on how early she books her flight. That comes to a rough total of 16200-17000 EUR (w/o taxes) she'd need per annum. So, other than the Dutch option (depending on how much of a percentage of it would go to taxes), it would really be a tight squeeze to do it with that amount of debt.

Edit: Also, how many hours does the Dutch option require one to work? Because if it requires full time employment (which you cannot do as a foreigner due to visa restrictions) it might be a problem (i.e., if you can only do 20 hrs/week you might be paid less for it as well).

Edited April 5, 2010 by dant.gwyrdd

[cybe2001]

I guess I feel kinda forced now to defend the European option, although I just wanted to mention the alternative

Anyway, you're comparing apples to pears. Yes, it could be a stretch. But, compare that predicament (i.e. being able to pay for your living expenses, travels and debt payments, through doing your PhD research) to the alternative of having to pay for your studies and increasing your debt.

[dant.gwyrdd]

I guess I feel kinda forced now to defend the European option, although I just wanted to mention the alternative

Anyway, you're comparing apples to pears. Yes, it could be a stretch. But, compare that predicament (i.e. being able to pay for your living expenses, travels and debt payments, through doing your PhD research) to the alternative of having to pay for your studies and increasing your debt.

Well, to tell you the truth, as a European I feel kind of bad having to argue against it, even though I'd otherwise fully encourage it

Anyway, but that's only one of the options--there is also an option of doing a funded program at Ole Miss in which case the OP would neither pay for her studies (other than the ~$600/semester) nor increase her debt. And then, she could go off to do her PhD studies in Europe (I know I'm definitely going for a post-doc in Europe... or in Mongolia, but that's a different story ) if she were so inclined and live there relatively comfortably (as a student) on the income you quoted.

[cybe2001]

Well, to tell you the truth, as a European I feel kind of bad having to argue against it, even though I'd otherwise fully encourage it

Anyway, but that's only one of the options--there is also an option of doing a funded program at Ole Miss in which case the OP would neither pay for her studies (other than the ~$600/semester) nor increase her debt. And then, she could go off to do her PhD studies in Europe (I know I'm definitely going for a post-doc in Europe... or in Mongolia, but that's a different story ) if she were so inclined and live there relatively comfortably (as a student) on the income you quoted.

Or better yet: apply for PhD funding and spend your (€€€) time in Mongolia

[breakfast]

Edit: Also, how many hours does the Dutch option require one to work? Because if it requires full time employment (which you cannot do as a foreigner due to visa restrictions) it might be a problem (i.e., if you can only do 20 hrs/week you might be paid less for it as well).

I think you're misunderstanding the whole visa situation. You are right when you say that with a student visa, you are limited to 20 hours a week. However, the PhD in Denmark and the Netherlands (and possibly other countries like Sweden and Norway) isn't exactly a student position. If you are accepted at one of these PhD programs, you apply for and get a full visa (one with no restrictions) since you are being hired to do research. The PhD is more of an employee-type situation than a student one in some of those countries, and as such, you get the same visa that any other person being hired to do full-time work gets, not a student visa. It's not the same throughout all of Europe though.

[cybe2001]

Yeah, second that.

In terms of visa exchange with the US, you'd probably have to look at the treaty on 'highly skilled workers', not students. (On another note: in countries like the Netherlands, as I stated above, someone working towards a PhD is called an assistant, employed at the university, rather than a student).

I know of more than one American national to be in such a position in the Netherlands.

[Faythren]

This is an exciting debate. I was already considering Europe after I get my Masters, and still am, but I am thinking it might be nice to go into it with minimal debt.

Or possibly none. StrokeofMidnight was talking about my funding not even covering housing, which is true, but the professor who went there told me the other day that he has "alerted the Friends Network" and has a possible housing opportunity for me down there. And really, I'm not in much of a position to refuse all my offers right now. I'm excited about Mississippi (which sounds kind of silly, I know), and if I don' t go there I'm just stuck in my parents house all year working for Bath and Body Works for $7.71 an hour while all my friends there get promoted or leave for their "real" jobs. So that's not really a viable option.