Alternate School Rankings?

[michaelwebster]

I was thinking, we have such a great resource in this forum, to communicate with so many other applicants, we could create our own school ranking system.

Let me know your thoughts on this. If it is something worthwhile, I could compile the data.

Each person could rate schools they have spent at least one day touring/meeting faculty/seeing facilities/meeting students etc, excluding the schools they have attended or will definitely be attending.

It could be stuctured for an all-in-one category like US news, or grouped by approach (figurative painting, video, public sculpture, etc.)

Maybe we dont need another system of ranking, or maybe we would be offering a different relationship. Instead of the ratings only being determined by two top admins at each school, probably based mostly on reputation, we can make our rankings based on actual visits, from a students perspective.

Let me know if your interested or if it would be a waste of time. It could be fun.

Edited March 31, 2010 by michaelwebster

[atrawickb]

I was thinking, we have such a great resource in this forum, to communicate with so many other applicants, we could create our own school ranking system.

Let me know your thoughts on this. If it is something worthwhile, I could compile the data.

Each person could rate schools they have spent at least one day touring/meeting faculty/seeing facilities/meeting students etc, excluding the schools they have attended or will definitely be attending.

It could be stuctured for an all-in-one category like US news, or grouped by approach (figurative painting, video, public sculpture, etc.)

Maybe we dont need another system of ranking, or maybe we would be offering a different relationship. Instead of the ratings only being determined by two top admins at each school, probably based mostly on reputation, we can make our rankings based on actual visits, from a students perspective.

Let me know if your interested or if it would be a waste of time. It could be fun.

ha. great idea.

--i only disagree with the exclusion of schools that people are going to go to, or have already attended--those are the schools that students would know most about!

my two cents, from what i've seen (i didn't apply everywhere i've been)...plus of course a bit from what i've heard from recent mfa grads who are seeing and feeling the real effects of graduating from this program or that, and talking about it.

--my list is in terms of primarily 2-D stuff

--this is also in terms of trying to project how seriously are people in the art world are actually going to take you when you get out, in a couple of years.

1. yale

2. columbia

3. ucla

4. risd

5. calarts

6. mica

7. saic

8. usc (free)

9. hunter

10. vcu

and then so on and so forth. watch out for stanford (free), cornell (free), ucsd, and upenn to drastically increase their relevance in the coming years.

[littlenova]

Oooh...FUN! This is gonna start a feud. LOL! This is just based on alumni work, faculty and CVs I have seen at some of the most competitive fairs/art spaces (i.e. Whitney, Nada, Pulse, Basel, Armory, Frieze,the Biennials, etc.) I also think if I was a few years younger and in a different place in my life, I would probably go to school in London or Holland. lol...But....

I would say for Studio MFA/Fine Arts (general):

1. YALE

2. SAIC

2. COLUMBIA

3. RISD

3. MICA

4. VCU

4. CARNEGIE MELLON (because of their New Media genres...and I really feel they deserve to be higher than Cranbrook)

5. CALARTS

5. UCLA (because of their New Media genres)

Some schools are just tied for me...I definitely think the East Coast is where it's at. I am totally biased.

IMHO For Photo or where I'd like to see Photo go in contemporary art:

1. YALE

2. SAIC

3. RISD

3. SVA

4. SFAI

5. COLUMBIA

I think in the next 5 years, we are going to see alot less emphasis on specific disciplines and more on interdisciplinary study. I favor more experimental curriculum over commercial. (This is why RIT and UNM don't have my vote in the Top 5 for Photo) I would most definitely agree UPenn (and even Bard) is up and coming. I would disagree about Cornell...I spent alot of time up there in Ithaca, met faculty/students/HF Johnson Museum, etc...and to me...very bland.

Edited March 31, 2010 by littlenova

[atrawickb]

oh, i forgot about bard. of course, they're going to take over a lot of other programs...and soon. i disagree about saic though, i think they're fading. cranbrook too. i think in general the small, pure art schools are all going to suffer, especially in a down economy, because they're so expensive and don't offer as much funding.

about cornell perhaps you're right that it's going nowhwere--i never visited and so never saw what was going on there with my own two eyes. but you can't deny that it is strapped to a world-class university with a massive endowment, and that they seem to be serious about making their program competitive with the decision to make their entire program fully funded for all students--and everybody knows what that's going to do...strip some of the best candidates away from the top programs.

look at usc ten years ago, where were they on the mfa landscape? (ask an older artist)--nowhere! they funded up their program, offered a bunch of top artists nice paychecks to come around and presto! rock n' roll program. they're even stealing people away from ucla these days.

anyhow, this is fun. more fun anyways than chewing my lower lip off waiting to hear back from risd and yale.

[caving]

oh, i forgot about bard. of course, they're going to take over a lot of other programs...and soon. i disagree about saic though, i think they're fading. cranbrook too. i think in general the small, pure art schools are all going to suffer, especially in a down economy, because they're so expensive and don't offer as much funding.

about cornell perhaps you're right that it's going nowhwere--i never visited and so never saw what was going on there with my own two eyes. but you can't deny that it is strapped to a world-class university with a massive endowment, and that they seem to be serious about making their program competitive with the decision to make their entire program fully funded for all students--and everybody knows what that's going to do...strip some of the best candidates away from the top programs.

look at usc ten years ago, where were they on the mfa landscape? (ask an older artist)--nowhere! they funded up their program, offered a bunch of top artists nice paychecks to come around and presto! rock n' roll program. they're even stealing people away from ucla these days.

anyhow, this is fun. more fun anyways than chewing my lower lip off waiting to hear back from risd and yale.

i agree atrawick- that some schools are really fading which is why this forum might leave some kind of documentation about what is on the up and up in comparison to us news and world report. unfortunately those ready to dish out a list seem ready to repeat what us news has said (which isn't incorrect- it has its thumb on influence and faculty, certainly- but there are some great programs out there!). there is so many other amazing top notch programs that are worth checking out and are really at the forefront of contemporary movements right now....

and i say that because i have to notice a lot of people were really put off, both in my social/school circle and on this message board (about the three or four comments i read about student interviews being pompous and arrogant and stuffy....) by yale. i applied just to see what would happen, but frankly i wish i didnt waste my money- i knew when i did i didn't want to go. i had a really negative experience during the open house and so many of the students seemed so in love with themselves it made me wonder how anything could get done. that being said, there will always be huge heads in any competitive program- but my visits really helped me see programs that had a better energy/atmosphere. fortunately they made it easy for me =)

i looked at a lot of places and wanted to make sure i was studying with people who were still going to be relevant in 10 years and give me the push and connections i needed.... these are all places i applied, because, well, they were all amazing.

i was really impressed with ucsb- across the board they have an amazing faculty right now and the work coming out of the program is delish. from photo to sculpture, i think they are really in tune with what is happening right now in the contemporary art world (look at this faculty: richard ross, kip fullbeck, jane mulfinger and if youre into film theory, colin gardner!!) anyway, i was majorly bummed when i didnt get in. they have just about everything going on right now and got a great vibe from their students.

penn was my top pick and probably where i am going to end up. they have a strong faculty and a great visiting artist program. they pay for you to go to skowhegan (if you get in) and two spots are reserved for penndesign students as a fellowship to the vermont studio center. and there is a fellowship to the RCA in london for a semester for some lucky student. they have a MFA student program at the institute of contemporary art in philly where youd get to work (!) as well as an amazing TA/instructor program that gives you some great experience. and the interdisciplinary stuff that is going on within the school of design is really giving some new edge to a lot of the work, be it architectural or ecological. unfortunately its hella expensive.

also, mass art for photo right now can not be *not* included in anyone's top 10. they have one of the best contemporary faculties in the country IMHO. i applied for 2d media but if you don't think abe morrell, nic nixon, laura mcphee (a personal fav) and barbara bosworth is like a super team if i could ever think of one. their facilities weren't as up to date as other schools i saw- but they are also the cheapest program in the country as they are a *state* art school (yes!) so even if you don't get any funding, a whole MFA is the cost of one year at another private school.

university of new mexico was also one of my top choices- this year they launched a new art and ecology MFA which incorporates environmental practice, design, and policy into art making. be it landart, photography, ceramics, etc. a one of a kind program and if you are earth-conscious and environmentally minded, there is amazing volunteer opportunities and a curriculum unlike any other. i think the landscape end of the penn program ended up being a better fit for me (though with UNM you do end up in the desert).

i hope this info helps someone else out along the way!!

[2DifferentSocks]

This topic is pretty great. Just thought it'd be fun to comment on this. I'm not really going to offer up a ranking because honestly, I haven't been everywhere. I have been to a lot of places and visited schools from top of the US News Rankings to the not so top. I think its kind of unfair to a lot of schools to pretty much have us (the forum users) seemingly re-ranking the top 10-15 schools because of what we assume are the best based on reputation/maybe visiting. I mean, aside from USC and maybe Hunter, all the schools mentioned are pretty much the same we'd expect. I almost think it'd be more fun to rank the schools that you would not expect to be awesome, sleeper schools types of thing. We all know yale columbia saic risd are sick. Also, in general I'm not sure how much I think fully funding programs will automatically lead them to climbing the rankings. Sure Cornell is fully funded (although only guaranteed for the first year for next years class) and is attached to amazing institution, but the reality of it is if you visit there you will quickly realize their facilities can be limiting. Also, there are a few more programs that offer full funding than you'd imagine. Of the grad schools I applied to, 5 or 6 of them have full funding opportunities. Thats about 50% of the schools I seriously considered. I just think a lot of school don't necessarily do a great job of advertising how much money they have available (or schools that advertise it a lot NEED that to get people because the program lacks in other areas). Just an opinion. Oh, btw, in terms of art schools fading, I'm not sure about that. I've never been to SAIC, but my friends who visited there said their facilities might be the best they've seen and also IF it really came down to offering more funding in order to not sacrifice their ranking something tells me they'd find a way to do. Congrats to everyone who has some luck with the process and those who haven't, no worries, round 2 works (at least it did for me)!

[littlenova]

anyhow, this is fun. more fun anyways than chewing my lower lip off waiting to hear back from risd and yale.

@ atrawickb: Lol...Yep. I am a freelance designer and am in between jobs at the moment, so I have been lurking on the boards....hahaha....I don't really get to see my art friends in Miami as much and MICA doesn't start for a few months...So, this forum has felt a bit like Art Club.

Do you really think that about SAIC? I think you are right that they need to start being more competitive with funding or they will miss out. But, I think they are WAY too strong of a program to "fade" away. Chicago is just booming art wise and I think the midwest scene has really fed other programs, too, like UWisconsin Milwaukee, etc.

I am biased about Cornell, because my husband went there and we lived in Ithaca for a few years and I know the people. If you PM me, I can tell you a little story about how the department has alot of "relatives" and "legacies" ...This was only 3 years ago. I think they are dated in their thinking,too, which is surprising since Lightwork and Syracuse Univ are right there.

They need to dance if they will ever hold a candle to Columbia or even UPenn. I think you are 100% right about programs like USC and VCU blowing other Art Ivys out of the top ranks, because of their funding.

At any rate: RISD and Yale are some sweeeeet schools to be waiting on! *Sending you good vibes*

Edited April 1, 2010 by littlenova

[caving]

well i think saic had amazing facilities, and you're right- the chicago art scene right now is awesome. the faculty and the cost left me hanging though. i applied there, actually... but at times wasn't sure what i applied for when i was wild about some other places more.... i mean, i wanted an excuse to move to chicago and i love the museum- so i don't think it will ever be not relevant. i just think some programs have snuck in edgewise.

cranbrook is going to be interesting to watch. detroit is a bigger mess than many people can imagine right now. in fact, just the past couple of weeks it has come in the news with the proposition of plans like mass demolition due to the population dropping so rapidly. so, there could be a lot of amazing social things going on around you and an amazing movement where bohemians/young artists move in and reinvent the place.... and that invigorate your art, or as the population dwindles and the city is desperately seeking new life it becomes really hard to stay connected and relevant.

also, abroad central st martins would be my pick if i went abroad to england.... they have a great faculty and if you're doing art based research they are tied to such research groups like the international center for fine art research and the research center for transnational art identity and nation (art globalization!!) as well as a textiles research group.... sounds like there is tons to think about, plus you could pursue a phd there!

p.s. littlenova- is there such a thing as an mfa legacy? had *no* idea.... if only anyone in my family didn't have lobster claws for hands (i come from a family of all doctors w atrocious handwriting and equally poor motor skills. as the lone creative type, let alone painter.... i'm the black sheep of the family)

[littlenova]

@caving: I was accepted to MassArt this year for Photo (I actually applied to their Summer 2-D and was considered for the other!) Abe Morell is retiring, I thought?? Hmmm... I will definitely give you Laura McPhee...But, the work coming out of there at the moment is not impressive. I would go to Syracuse before I went there. They just don't have the edge I would look for in a program....like say Columbia. I really look at the alumni before I look at the faculty sometimes. (Is that bad, you think?) This is why I sing Yale's praises so much. Their grads are just consistently showing well and doing innovative work.

But, yeah...They would probably round out my Top 10 for Photo.

I have a very good friend Naomi Shersty who went to UNM for Photo and teaches in Milwaukee now....So, I will not say anything bad about UNM Photo. She is amazing. But, they are lacking to me in a lot of ways. I felt the same way about RIT. The work is just not clicking. I honestly am glad I am doing an interdisciplinary MFA and not in a traditional Photo program...I think I am not really a "photographer's photographer" if you know what I mean.

I think Photo is a VERY interesting discipline to watch. It's changing. The sensibilities are changing. I think the big programs and curriculum structure is also on it's way out...

Here are some interesting thoughts/essays I was just reading on that:

http://www.sfmoma.org/events/1589

Congrats on UPenn! Pretty fabulous!

p.s.

I also agree....What the heck is in the water at St. Martins?!!!....They are EVERYWHERE.lol...

p.p.s.

Would you really go to MassArt over UPenn? That's interesting.

Edited April 1, 2010 by littlenova

[littlenova]

p.s. littlenova- is there such a thing as an mfa legacy? had *no* idea.... if only anyone in my family didn't have lobster claws for hands (i come from a family of all doctors w atrocious handwriting and equally poor motor skills. as the lone creative type, let alone painter.... i'm the black sheep of the family)

*Cracking Up*

I use that term "legacy" as a jab, really. A senior professor there had his sister in the faculty and his niece as an MFA student and another family member at the Johnson....I met the niece and she bragged about it when I volunteered at the museum once. She said she was applying to the grad program and knew she'd get in. I wanted to barf because I thought about how HARD my husband worked for the Cornell pedigree and how some people seem to be handed things. Top that off with a crappy photo facility and crummy work for the last few years and...well....bitter, party of ME.

Edited April 1, 2010 by littlenova

[caving]

@caving: I was accepted to MassArt this year for Photo (I actually applied to their Summer 2-D and was considered for the other!) Abe Morell is retiring. I will definitely give you Laura McPhee...But, the work coming out of there at the moment is not impressive. I would go to Syracuse before I went there. They just don't have the edge I would look for in a program....like say Columbia. I really look at the alumni before I look at the faculty sometimes. This is why I sing Yale's praises so much. Their grads are just consistently showing well and doing innovative work.

But, yeah...They would probably round out my Top 10 for Photo.

I have a very good friend Naomi Shersty who went to UNM for Photo and teaches in Milwaukee now....So, I will not say anything bad about UNM Photo. She is amazing. But, they are lacking to me in a lot of ways. I felt the same way about RIT. The work is just not clicking. I honestly am glad I am doing an interdisciplinary MFA and not in a traditional Photo program...

I think Photo is a VERY interesting discipline to watch. It's changing. The sensibilities are changing. I think the big programs and curriculum structure is also on it's way out...

Here are some interesting thoughts/essays I was just reading on that:

http://www.sfmoma.org/events/1589

Congrats on UPenn! Pretty fabulous!

p.s.

I also agree....What the heck is in the water at St. Martins?!!!....They are EVERYWHERE.lol...

NO WAY abe is retiring?? that is such a bummer. i had him for a semester where he was a visiting professor during my undergrad and he really challenged me/pushed me in new directions. and i havent really been following the students at massarts work, my statement merely came out of the fact i am just a sucker for the faculty and think it has a reasonable price point. and yeah, its hard not to look at the students and understand the trajectory you could/would be on if you went there. i think its a good way to look at a program, for sure.

....unm sort of had its day and is a very different place now, but the art and ecology mfa, assuming it works out to be as challenging and exciting a program as it sounds- should be amazing and different than anything offered in the country. i applied to it, and didn't get in, but i frankly don't even know what they were looking for, or what their student body is going to look like. the idea of being part of a brand new program at a traditionally great school sounded really exciting... but i'm really excited to hear what comes from it, and am certainly jealous of whoever gets a shot to check it out. =)

i don't know much about rit, somehow never understood its place in the "ratings" and don't really know anyone who has gone there....

thanks for the link, im reading through the responses now (wow!) i work at a camera store and i had a very irate customer who got mad at me for recommending a photo gallery to him that had a very strange/experimental art show. a lot of which included found photographs and other objects which he claimed were not photography and "how dare i waste his time" (i frankly, had no idea what show was up). but you have to think about how photo is a fairly new art, and painting went through the death of painting- malevich and the suprematists, etc. photo is taking itself to the extreme- colliding with cinema (crewdson) to the completely abstract (liz deschenes), trying to find its place in all of these, and hopefully will return to a full flourishing of the medium...

p.s. and congrats on massart, even if its not right for you- its certainly something to be proud of!

[caving]

*Cracking Up*

I use that term "legacy" as a jab, really. A senior professor there had his sister in the faculty and his niece as an MFA student and another family member at the Johnson....I met the niece and she bragged about it when I volunteered at the museum once. She said she was applying to the grad program and knew she'd get in. I wanted to barf because I thought about how HARD my husband worked for the Cornell pedigree and how some people seem to be handed things. Top that off with a crappy photo facility and crummy work for the last few years and...well....bitter, party of ME.

oh i would have been livid! my friend is there for an mfa in creative writing.... can't say i want to move to ithaca any time soon- you're brave for supporting you hubby in the cold ithaca winter

[danstina]

i'm currently an undergrad student (senior) at massart and i am curious to know if anyone plans on attending massart for their mfa...?

[caving]

i'm currently an undergrad student (senior) at massart and i am curious to know if anyone plans on attending massart for their mfa...?

still unsure! (haven't heard back yet...)

but let me tell you-- when i interviewed and saw the undergrad work up in the halls, i was incredibly impressed. i think a lot of the undergrads there are showing so much more direction/promise. made me feel excited about the whole community at massart.

Edited April 1, 2010 by caving

[danstina]

still unsure!

but let me tell you-- when i interviewed and saw the undergrad work up in the halls, i was incredibly impressed. i think a lot of the undergrads there are showing so much more direction/promise than some art schools i have visited. i think that also made me feel really good about the program just knowing that the whole atmosphere was really exciting.

oh wow! im glad you liked it! it is a really good school in terms of the students. If you have any questions you think i might be able to answer while you are deciding let me know!

Edited April 1, 2010 by danstina

[selkie]

oh wow! im glad you liked it! it is a really good school in terms of the students. If you have any questions you think i might be able to answer while you are deciding let me know!

I've been accepted to massart photo too but even if I'm flattered I'm also skeptical.

I think they have a great faculty with or without Morell, but despite this incredible teachers I couldn't find relevant alumni coming out of the MFA program.

I'm afraid that the school won't be able to support me as I would like.

Anyone has a different opinion?

As for their program it's true that is mainly photography but I entered because I do a sort of experimental photography that refers to others media (painting, sculpture, cinema). I was surprised to be called for an interview but then I heard that they're trying to give a new direction to the program and be more involved in the changes of contemporary photography.

By the way, any information could be helpful!!

[gobergood]

My thoughts on rankings in terms of gallery shows & reception into the art world today - based on word of mouth & conversations with some working artists:

Group 1

1. Columbia - (legendary over-hype in the gallery scene, very high profile, strong faculty, but also prohibitively high tuition costs, Jonathan Kessler is very well respected as an excellent adviser on video & sculpture)

2. UCLA - (strongest connection to LA galleries, outstanding faculty including Lari Pittman & Barbara Kruger, least expensive, top-tier MFA program)

3. Yale - (big alumni network, phenomenal facilities, weaker because in New Haven rather than NYC or LA and lacking strong new media component, complaints often made that sculpture program is said to be too molded by Jessica Stockholder's aesthetic)

4. USC - (gaining steam as strong reputation, great faculty, large scholarships)

5. VCU (sculpture + new media) - very strong on technical & conceptual, ambitious student work, great facilities

Group 2

6. Hunter (in Manhattan, in-state tuition for New Yorkers, very DIY in their practice, weaker facilities & resources for students)

7. RISD (painting only) - losing steam, as it has built a reputation for breaking students down without building them back up in recent years

8. Calarts

9. UCSD (offers full tuition, close to LA)

10. Art Institute of Chicago (some say that the Chicago art scene is waning)

[caving]

My thoughts on rankings in terms of gallery shows & reception into the art world today - based on word of mouth & conversations with some working artists:

Group 1

1. Columbia - (legendary over-hype in the gallery scene, very high profile, strong faculty, but also prohibitively high tuition costs, Jonathan Kessler is very well respected as an excellent adviser on video & sculpture)

2. UCLA - (strongest connection to LA galleries, outstanding faculty including Lari Pittman & Barbara Kruger, least expensive, top-tier MFA program)

3. Yale - (big alumni network, phenomenal facilities, weaker because in New Haven rather than NYC or LA and lacking strong new media component, complaints often made that sculpture program is said to be too molded by Jessica Stockholder's aesthetic)

4. USC - (gaining steam as strong reputation, great faculty, large scholarships)

5. VCU (sculpture + new media) - very strong on technical & conceptual, ambitious student work, great facilities

Group 2

6. Hunter (in Manhattan, in-state tuition for New Yorkers, very DIY in their practice, weaker facilities & resources for students)

7. RISD (painting only) - losing steam, as it has built a reputation for breaking students down without building them back up in recent years

8. Calarts

9. UCSD (offers full tuition, close to LA)

10. Art Institute of Chicago (some say that the Chicago art scene is waning)

when i have my retrospective at the moma i shall call it "legendary over-hype". just love the phrase. hah!

[Moose?]

On 3/31/2010 at 7:23 PM, littlenova said:

@ atrawickb: Lol...Yep. I am a freelance designer and am in between jobs at the moment, so I have been lurking on the boards....hahaha....I don't really get to see my art friends in Miami as

I am biased about Cornell, because my husband went there and we lived in Ithaca for a few years and I know the people. If you PM me, I can tell you a little story about how the department has alot of "relatives" and "legacies" ...This was only 3 years ago. I think they are dated in their thinking,too, which is surprising since Lightwork and Syracuse Univ are right there.

They need to dance if they will ever hold a candle to Columbia or even UPenn. I think you are 100% right about programs like USC and VCU blowing other Art Ivys out of the top ranks, because of their funding.

Hey All, I've been following along for a while now and figured I'd speak up a bit regarding this topic.

I'm not really sure why people have been so enthused with Cornell. I went there for my BFA and graduated a couple years back and therefore have an insiders point-of-view that maybe some perspective students might appreciate hearing. Granted, this info might be slightly out of date since I graduated two years ago, but for the most part it should be accurate.

First off, it's free (plus a stipend) and you graduate with a ton of teaching experience, since you are guaranteed a TA position as part of the financial package.

As far as the facilities go, I'm interested to hear why they are limiting, since the impression I got was that they are pretty good. I mean, the building was recently revamped, gutted completely and redesigned, so the facilities haven't even reached the ten year age mark. Compare that to programs like Columbia- whose facilities are god awful in every way, ancient, falling apart, super small and cramped etc etc.

Granted, Cornell's program is super small, a BFA class averages 15-20 students and an MFA class averages only 5-6 students, so the facilities don't have to be as extensive as, say, Tyler School of Art's, which is a four story behemoth. But you get a private studio as an MFA (like, completely private, door and all). They have two media labs, one for advanced digital media and large format printing, the other for everything and anything else (and about 30 iMac's). They have 10 printmaking presses, including a private graduate and professor printing area with 24 hour access. For photo they have 20+ black and white enlargers, 8+ color enlargers, alternative processes lab, seriography labs, and private grad/professor areas with 24 hour access. Sculpture is a little on the aged side, but they have all the tools and equipment you could possibly need, including a foundry. Pair this with Ivy Leage resources, endowment, and notoriety, and you have a LOT of tools at your fingertips. In the end, I have never heard of a single student having issues with facilities, or being limited in any way.

Additionally, they are drastically expanding their space, as the College of Architecture, Art, and City/Regional Planning are building a massive structure designed by Rem Koolhas. So that is important to keep in mind. They just started construction on this building in the past year I believe.

Ther fine art library is amazing. AMAZING! The best I have EVER seen in my life. And they are connected to all the other Ivy League libraries, so if you want anything that they don't have, which is rare, they can get it for you lickity-split.

The Johnson Museum is world renowned, and right next door to the art building. They have a great span of art from ancient to modern to contemporary, and they constantly have visiting artists and lectures visiting. And, because the art program is connected to the world renowned architecture, creative writing, and industrial design programs, we got a TON of interesting lecturers visiting campus all the time. And they have been introducing really interesting cross disciplinary projects between art and other programs (like creative writing).

The campus is BEAUTIFUL. Gorges, plantations, gardens, fields, woods, rolling hills, Gothic architecture. Cathedrals. Lakes, ponds. Oh man, I'm just getting excited remembering it, haha.

As far as faculty goes, like any school it can be hit or miss. Some professors are older and have a distinct viewpoint they might try to impose on a student. Others are wonderful. You just have to do your research and find someone who you cangel with. But this is not unique to Cornell.

As far as the 'legacy' comment goes, I'm a little shocked this would be looked on as a problem, since the very notion of networking and building connections is fundamental to a professional artistic practice. And, might I add, getting connections is a primary reason why many people on this board have chosen to apply to or attend top notch institutions like MICA SAIC Columbia or Yale etc etc. So I don't see any issue with using a family or friend to get into a grad school. That being said, I know ALL the grad's and professors personally (at least the one's that came through from 2004-2008) and I can say with almost complete certainty that none of the professors are related, to each other or to any of the students. If you think I'm wrong, I'd be happy to discuss this over PM, cuz there is always a chance I missed something, haha.

And if we are gonna compare Cornell to Syracuse (which I know little about first hand, but a lot about second and third hand) I just wanted to mention that according to US News, they rank equal to each other, but as we all know, what is really going on in these rankings is a mystery, haha.

And as far as Grads go, I know of a few MFA's that graduated straight into gallery representation and others who went straight into teaching positions. I don't know the specifics of these instances, but it isn't uncommon. Also, our alumni consists of rock star artists like Susan Rothenburg and James Sienna, and we have people showing in the Whitney Biennial right now (Storm Tharp). Professors like Maria Park, Carl Ostendarp, Buzz Spector, Todd McGrain, Michael Ashkin, Kay Walkingstick, etc have shown internationally, are represented in NY galleries, have work in huge museum collections, and have been included in some interesting contemporary art literature. Also, writiers and critiques Buzz Spector and Patti Phillips have graced our programs administration as well. However, Patti moved on to become Dean of RISD's grad program, and Buzz moved on to a WashU in St. Louis I believe.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to clear the air about Cornell, since I do think it is a good program and it is definitely getting knocked around a little here. Haha.

[littlenova]

@Moose: Respectfully...We lived in Ithaca just 3 years ago. The campus is beautiful. The town is so sweet. (Nines Pizza!!) The research facilities are fabulous. I will give you that. The Johnson is a great museum. I volunteered there a few times. But, I volunteered before that at the Rubell Family and lived right near 3 major contemporary collections in Miami...so...it was underwhelming to me.

But, YES I found the photo facilities to be mediocre. I will not argue this point. To each his own. It was fine...I had connections and went to use the printers/darkroom at Lightwork instead.

• Why did Buzz and Patti move on to other programs?
• Do you have PEOPLE showing in the Whitney Biennial or do you have PERSON showing in the Whitney Biennial?

As far as the 'legacy' comment goes, I'm a little shocked this would be looked on as a problem, since the very notion of networking and building connections is fundamental to a professional artistic practice. And, might I add, getting connections is a primary reason why many people on this board have chosen to apply to or attend top notch institutions like MICA SAIC Columbia or Yale etc etc

I think "connections" and fraternization are two different things. I am going to come out and say the name I am talking about since you double-dog-dared me on the board: Please look up Jessica Evett-Miller or read this nice little article: http://aap.cornell.e...eid_2892=124036 She also has family at the Johnson.

My husband got into Cornell, because he was a genius. He worked hard. I LOVE Ithaca. I loved the career it afforded him academically...but, that is a huge problem, my friend. I am glad they seem to have it under control from what you are talking about now...but, it would be nowhere in my Top 10 programs. Sorry...It can't even touch some of the others.

@gobergood: I have to agree with most of what you said. You sound like you know alot about the west coast scene. I have only been a few times...But, you forgot Miami. Which right now is HOTTTT. MICA is all over Miami. I think MICA belongs on that list over maybe one or two of those names.

But, yeah...I forgot Hunter. How AMAZING is Hunter?!

Edited April 1, 2010 by littlenova

[Moose?]

@Moose: Respectfully...We lived in Ithaca just 3 years ago. The campus is beautiful. The town is so sweet. (Nines Pizza!!) The research facilities are fabulous. I will give you that. The Johnson is a great museum. I volunteered there a few times. But, I volunteered before that at the Rubell Family and lived right near 3 major contemporary collections in Miami...so...it was underwhelming to me.

But, YES I found the photo facilities to be mediocre. I will not argue this point. To each his own. It was fine...I had connections and went to use the printers/darkroom at Lightwork instead.

• Why did Buzz and Patti move on to other programs?
• Do you have PEOPLE showing in the Whitney Biennial or do you have PERSON showing in the Whitney Biennial?

I think "connections" and fraternization are two different things. I am going to come out and say the name I am talking about since you double-dog-dared me on the board: Please look up Jessica Evett-Miller and see how she is related to two faculty members at Cornell and YES in the same department. (They may not work there any more, but they all went to Cornell, were faculty and built up that program.) My husband got into Cornell, because he was a genius. He worked hard. I LOVE Ithaca. I loved the career it afforded him academically...but, that is a huge problem, my friend. I am glad they seem to have it under control from what you are talking about now...but, it would be nowhere in my Top 10 programs. Sorry...It can't even touch some of the others.

@gobergood: I have to agree with most of what you said. You sound like you know alot about the west coast scene. I have only been a few times...But, you forgot Miami. Which right now is HOTTTT. MICA is all over Miami. I think MICA belongs on that list over maybe one or two of those names.

But, yeah...I forgot Hunter. How AMAZING is Hunter?!

Hey Littlenova,

IDK why they moved on, could be any number of reasons, promotion, raise, who knows, but they were fabulous while they were on the faculty. They always offered amazing advice. I think Patti was always meant as a temporary person on staff. But again, I'm not privy to that info.

In this current Biennial we have one person in the show that I know of. In the 2008 we had another, a photographer. I don't remember her name but I have it written down somewhere.

James Sienna was in the 2004 Biennial. Susan Rothenburg has been around forever and has been, in that past, the lone voice of figurative painting in a 'painting is dead' era.

Richard Artschwager is another notable, but he studied science at Cornell, so I don't think that counts, haha.

Christopher Rouse has won a Guggenheim, a Friedheim, membership in the American Academy of Arts and Letters, a Grammy, an honorary doctorate, “Best of the Year Award” from Gramophone etc. He did art and music simultaneously at Cornell.

There are more, not nearly as many as most of the 'best' schools out there. I'm not arguing that Cornell is a top notch program, it isn't. But it IS growing in a number of ways, and it is getting some attention.

The point to my earlier post was twofold. I wanted to hear more specifics as to WHY people don't like the program and not just generalities (I'm interested to know what it lacked, not in a 'back-up-your-opinion' sort of way, but in a 'I'm interested in your viewpoint' sort of way). Giving specifics as to why the facilities were limiting or lacking would be nice for prospective students to hear too. I also wanted to offer up some info on the school, since most of the opinions on it seem to be from the outside looking in. Volunteering at the museum next door definitely gives some insight into the program, but not as much as attending it, and I wanted to offer up any info I could.

And I'd love to contact you via PM regarding the fraternizing/connections issue, since you have some of your facts wrong. I wasn't daring you to blurt out someone elses private info... if you re-read the original post I said to PM me if you wanted to talk about that. In the end, every school handles this issue the same way -- If you know the dean or chair or a professor personally, your chances of getting in skyrocket. Again, this is not unique to Cornell, so demonizing it for this reason doesn't seem rational to me. It's just the way to world works sometimes, and yeah...it sucks.

I'm glad you enjoyed your time in Ithaca though. And major props to your hubby. Getting into (not to mention through) Cornell is no easy task. He must be very gifted indeed.

[littlenova]

@Moose: PM me anytime...That info isn't really private...It was in a published article.

The photo labs are probably better than Columbia's but, I guess I have been spoiled by some other facilities where the printers were calibrated better and the chemicals were more abundant/labs had more coverage. I may have been treated differently,too, because I was not a student and was allowed darkroom privileges only because I was part of the community. Opinions are biased...including mine. I am glad you are on here to share a different experience for those that want to give Cornell a try.

I should have been more mindful about my comments, but I see how hard everybody works to get into some of these schools and even some folks who don't get in...and I get really defensive about the idea of a legacy. You are right, though. And in some cases, these folks can't help that they were brothered into a program because of a relative and are BRILLIANTLY talented in their own right. (Look at Charlie Traub and his nephew Daniel Traub at SVA---who is exceptionally gifted.)

But, it left an icky taste in my mouth. I don't want to demonize any program. Because, truthfully, in the right climate, any one of the Top 50 could shoot up the rankings. But, it's fun to speculate and conjecture what the hot programs are. I have seen graduates from RISD work deli counters and graduates from Forida State win Fullbrights. It is all relative, ya know?

[Moose?]

@Moose:

• Do you have PEOPLE showing in the Whitney Biennial or do you have PERSON showing in the Whitney Biennial?

AhHA!

Found it. Louise Lawler (I don't know how I forgot her, she is huge). She was in the last Biennial, back in 2008.

Professor Michael Ashkin had stuff in the Whitney back in the late 90's too.

And we have Mia Pearlman currently in the Museum of Art and Design in NY for this great show called 'Slash: Paper Under the Knife'. Seriously, it's an amazing show, but I think it closes soon. They also have a MICA grad, named Adam Fowler, who made these amazing graphite drawings. His work was possibly my favorite stuff in the show.

[Moose?]

Just wanted to add my list of schools that have interested me, most of which get overshadowed by the top 10 list, and since that stuff is already available to all prospective students, I'll leave those big guys out and focus on others.

I would include:

Washington University in St. Louis (WUSTL)

Bard College

University of Texas, Austin (UTA)

Pratt Institute

University of Wisconsin, Madison

University of South Florida 

University of Iowa

Arizona State University

SUNY Purchase

School of Visual Arts

[caving]

i think thats a really nice roundup of other popular, esteemed, cheaper, overshadowed programs. i hope folks next year find this helpful- even the debate about cornell. i think all of us documenting what we love and hate is really important and can help some other people out since so many of these places we are influenced by professors or artists we know who went to them. ?

On 4/1/2010 at 1:32 PM, Moose? said:

Just wanted to add my list of schools that have interested me, most of which get overshadowed by the top 10 list, and since that stuff is already available to all prospective students, I'll leave those big guys out and focus on others.

I would include:

Washington University in St. Louis (WUSTL)

Bard College

University of Texas, Austin (UTA)

Pratt Institute

University of Wisconsin, Madison

University of South Florida 

University of Iowa

Arizona State University

SUNY Purchase

School of Visual Arts