Alternate School Rankings?

[danstina]

@selkie

as an UG i've had little contact with the grad students at massart (and just so you know, I am a 3d major so if i did have contact with them, it would most likely be with the 3d grads...) but the thing that makes mass art so great is he students. there are some great faculty members in some departments but in my experience, some departments are stacked with awesome profs. and others have no one who is all that well known. it is true that abe is retiring, but there are some other noteable faculty including Nick Nixon and Laura McPhee. Have you seen this website: http://www.massartphoto.com/ ? check it out. Like I said, I am in 3d, so I dont know too too much about photo but I can tell you that the people in the photo department love the crap out it and we have things that are uncommon. We have a 20 x 24 polaroid camera, one of eight ever made, and we have 3 dark rooms and a digital lab, you probably saw all of this is you came for an interview... idk maybe you didn't.

There are a lot of improvement plans for the next few years at MassArt and it will be a really exciting time to be a student there.

To answer your question, I think you would be supported in whatever you want to do. Photo and Film (which are two separate departments) both tend to be more experimental than commercial, and lots of people in photo (again, i'm talking undergrad) take classes in other departments and use various techniques in their work outside of just photo.

As for alumni, Will Wegman graduated from massart but not in photo although that is what he is known for. Off the top of my head i can't name anyone famous/well known who got their masters degree from massart in photo. that is not to say there are none, but it is to say that i don't know all that much about photographers.

I have a lot of issues with MassArt as an undergrad, and some of them might be specific to being an undergrad, some of them might not be.

did that help? sorry i was super longwinded about it.

[littlenova]

Overlooked programs:

WASHINGTON DC

I'd like to add George Mason (especially printmaking and new media) & American (painting) for the DC area...

FLORIDA

and for Florida (I have lived, shown and worked there in Miami for several years) I would say that much of the success at Basel has happened independently of the university programs in the state. Artists are coming from all over to show and get represented and it's been mostly a retail phenomenon. But, if any of them were benefiting from this presence...the University of Florida would be the school to watch over University of South Florida or even Florida State, because they have a chair member on the Basel committee and also are involved in many of the fairs when they stroll into town. They create opportunities for their grads to show during peak times and have spaces all over Miami. They have had a satellite BFA program in Miami for several years and are talking about extending their MFA program there as well. If they did, it would be huge. Potential applicants should understand that even though Gainesville isn't art central, there is an opportunity to connect with their Miami ties as well. Plus, they are HEAVILY funded.

Here are the current Miami stars from University of Florida/Miami Dade College High School & BFA program (New World School of the Arts)...You'll notice almost all of them have not even gone for their MFA, but have had HUGE success.

Bert Rodriguez

Jiae Hwang

Naomi Fischer

Hernan Bas

Luis Gispert

There are too many more to name..

This has become the online bible of most exhibitions down there: http://www.artlurker.com/

MIDWEST

Also, Peck @ University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee is blowing up as well. The faculty are extraordinary and they deserve an honorable mention.

Edited April 2, 2010 by littlenova

[selkie]

@selkie

as an UG i've had little contact with the grad students at massart (and just so you know, I am a 3d major so if i did have contact with them, it would most likely be with the 3d grads...) but the thing that makes mass art so great is he students. there are some great faculty members in some departments but in my experience, some departments are stacked with awesome profs. and others have no one who is all that well known. it is true that abe is retiring, but there are some other noteable faculty including Nick Nixon and Laura McPhee. Have you seen this website: http://www.massartphoto.com/ ? check it out. Like I said, I am in 3d, so I dont know too too much about photo but I can tell you that the people in the photo department love the crap out it and we have things that are uncommon. We have a 20 x 24 polaroid camera, one of eight ever made, and we have 3 dark rooms and a digital lab, you probably saw all of this is you came for an interview... idk maybe you didn't.

There are a lot of improvement plans for the next few years at MassArt and it will be a really exciting time to be a student there.

To answer your question, I think you would be supported in whatever you want to do. Photo and Film (which are two separate departments) both tend to be more experimental than commercial, and lots of people in photo (again, i'm talking undergrad) take classes in other departments and use various techniques in their work outside of just photo.

As for alumni, Will Wegman graduated from massart but not in photo although that is what he is known for. Off the top of my head i can't name anyone famous/well known who got their masters degree from massart in photo. that is not to say there are none, but it is to say that i don't know all that much about photographers.

I have a lot of issues with MassArt as an undergrad, and some of them might be specific to being an undergrad, some of them might not be.

did that help? sorry i was super longwinded about it.

Thanks so much for your answer!

I have been looking at their photo website all these past months and there is where I saw the works of the previous master students.

I have to say that in general I like them but I can't find anything that really interesting me.

By the way, the I think that the facilities are very good (considering also that is a public school) and the faculty is great but I'm not yet sure about their program and for this reason I was thinking to ask them to defer my entrance. Do you know if they allow to do it?

I would like to take one year off to visit other schools and understand if Massart is the right for me or not.

[danstina]

@selkie

i completely understand how you feel. i'm not sure about the deferment policy. good luck with your decision making!

[jon cocktoe]

I think this is a great topic for a tread, though I've noticed a lot of people are rehashing the top 20 or so schools. From my perspective, it's a little hard to rank schools per se, because I really don't feel like I know enough about them, so I've got three lists: all the schools I considered and researched, all the schools I visited, and the places I applied. So, in approximate order:

Schools I considered:

MassArt - the faculty work is probably my favorite and I had visited years ago, so it was tops on my list.

UConn - the faculty work on the website seemed pretty good, and from what I could gather, they had a very generous funding package with a stipend to the tune of $20K guaranteed for all admitted students

RISD - I don't think I need to elaborate

Yale - I had a professor that was a Yale grad, and she highly recommended it, but because of nearby negative family relations and it's supposed reputation for demoralizing competitiveness, I decided to skip it

University of New Mexico - Solid and diverse faculty, and the art and ecology program really stood out for me

University of Arizona - really interesting faculty work (Mark Klett), and good funding package

University of Colorado Boulder - seemed like a good program, but ultimately I didn't apply because I couldn't really see myself working with the faculty there

University of Washington - really interesting stuff going on there, but I've never been to Seattle, so I don't know much about the art scene there

Syracuse - great faculty, interesting program, got passed over because of geography

Cornell - more has been elaborated on here than I even knew about, also passed because of geography

Maine College of Art - at first this seemed like a great option, but I couldn't find any info about funding, and I found a few web pages on the www that indicated some severe tension between the faculty and administration. I also later decided that I didn't want to do low residency

Bard - everything seemed great, but it's expensive, and I didn't want low-res

Art Institute of Boston - the more alumni work I saw, the less excited I was, plus lack of funding and low-residency were ultimately deal breakers

SMFA - I really wanted to like it, but the program is 3 years, and almost all of the faculty work is political, which I'm really not into

U Mass Amherst - Didn't know much about it, but one of my undergrad profs strongly encouraged me to apply

U Mass Dartmouth - I really didn't know much about it, but decided to check it out anyway

Schools I visited:

1. U Mass Dartmouth - All the alumni work I've seen is stuff that I strongly identify with, and they all seem to have great jobs to boot. The facilities are in a downtown building that was renovated in the last decade and are up to date and accessible.

2. RISD - I met a couple of students and some support staff, and got a really positive inclusive vibe. The photo facilities are great, but are in a state of analog/digital transition so there's a bit of unused space, and people are just setting up in whatever room is available to do what they need to.

3. MassArt - The facilities are impressive, about the same as RISD as far as I could tell, but I was really disappointed to find out that Abe Morell is retiring, and word on the street is that while Laura McPhee is a great professor, she "has a tendency to instill fear in people." (from a current grad student). It also seemed like there was a lot of inertia if the work the students were making didn't look quite like everyone thought that contemporary photography should. I didn't feel like it was a working environment where I could thrive.

4. UConn - I was really disappointed by this one. The campus is in the middle of nowhere (which I knew), and the photo facilities consist of a few iMacs in the basement and some printers of questionable operational status (nobody knew if they worked). The darkrooms were cramped and messy and shared with undergrads, and there was a private darkroom in the grad studio building (on the other side of campus) that had some nice equipment, but nobody was using it. Overall, this led to a general feeling of isolation. The students I met were disorganized and inarticulate and seemed to have a tough time working on anything. The faculty were a really mixed bag. There was one standout who I loved, but there was one other who was combative, opinionated and just generally snotty and mean, and the others were somewhere in between. It also turns out that funding was cut across the university so the $20k stipend is actually more like $7k (which is still great w/full tuition, but they are definitely guilty of false advertising on this one).

Schools I applied to (in order of preference):

1. U Mass Dartmouth

2. RISD

3. UNM - I currently live in New Mexico and wanted to stay here, and the school seemed great, so I figured I would visit if I got in, which I didn't.

4. MassArt - Despite my aforementioned feeling about the program, I knew some other grads who were really positive about it, and decided to give it a chance

5. U Mass Amherst - It's in a region where I'd like to be, and the program seems really solid. Upon further research, I really like the work the photo grads are doing, but it doesn't look anything like mine, so I don't know how well I would have actually fit in the program.

Phew, that's the most succinct summary I think I could write of a year of research and application work. I hope this list is useful to someone applying in future years. Oh, and I was only really looking for photography, if that wasn't made clear already.

[rama]

I've been accepted to massart photo too but even if I'm flattered I'm also skeptical.

I think they have a great faculty with or without Morell, but despite this incredible teachers I couldn't find relevant alumni coming out of the MFA program.

I'm afraid that the school won't be able to support me as I would like.

Anyone has a different opinion?

As for their program it's true that is mainly photography but I entered because I do a sort of experimental photography that refers to others media (painting, sculpture, cinema). I was surprised to be called for an interview but then I heard that they're trying to give a new direction to the program and be more involved in the changes of contemporary photography.

By the way, any information could be helpful!!

I have the same concern. I have been a offered a place in MFA at massarts and although I like the faculty and the very fact that it is a state college I don't seem any committed, driven work coming out of there. And Abe Morrell and his teaching skills were a big factor but it does seem that he is retiring although when I visited for the interview I heard that he might continue to teach graduate studio class. But how does one confirm this, I don't know.

[rama]

I am quoting this from another thread in the forum becoz I think its more relevant in the discussions here:This is something independant from this thread but since so many people are on tis one I thought it might be a good place to put out my thoughts. I was looking at Yale' faculty mostly in the photo dept and realized that more than 95% faculty are pass outs of Yale. Was completly taken aback. Is this a condition they have when involving faculty in the program...to my mind it seems such a closed way and it can only limit perspectives. What about diversity? Also, there are hardly any women on the faculty...I recognize that Yale is probably the most well known program and has along history but is this translating to the program being conventional. These thoughts come to my mind as I think of re applying and having strong second thoughts on it...Would love to hear what the rest of us think about this.

This is my first year of application and I am not from the US. This fourm has been excellent in giving me a background of the shools and kind of a graph of where things are going. I applied to Yale, Risd, UNM, Massart, Coumbia university and ICP-Bard. Have been offered a place by Columbia University ( I choose to go on their waiting list -the fee is far to high for what they offer. The chair for photo sounds so old school that I can't imagine triving there). Massart and ICP-Bard is the choice I am left with and I am curious to know what are the thoughts on ICP-Bard. Haven't seen it being mentioned anywhere. As far as the faculty is concerned I think they have a huge diversity and as a student one could choose to take classes from their continuing ed program, some of which are really good. The facilities and maintainence are very good but you share most of the digital facilities with the part time students which can tough. But any thoughts on the school will be very helpful.

[littlenova]

Congrats on your acceptances....

MassArt and ICP-Bard are both solid programs. I think Columbia, IMHO, is the better choice. My friend graduated from there and they are very interdisciplinary. You are interacting with all the grad faculty (much like MICA) and even though Thomas Roma's work is more traditional, it is not indicative of where the graduates are going with their work. Dana Hoey is also on staff and is fabulous. The biggest selling point for Columbia are their phenomenal visiting artists. (Thomas Struth, Alec Soth, Lorna Simpson, Rineke Dijkstra...) You name it, and they make them available to the grads.

If debt is an issue, though, or if you had to choose between MassArt and ICP-Bard...I am afraid that is a personal decision. I wasn't really attracted as much to the ICP program at Bard, because there are alot of commercial photographers working with the program. Not my thing. But, some people think it's an insanely wonderful program and some of the work is pretty fabulous, especially if you are into documentary or portraiture. MassArt's praises have been sung all on this board, too.

For me, I would look first and foremost at the grad work coming out of the programs. If I didn't like the work, I didn't apply/accept. That was a huge decision maker. People can say whatever they want about Yale's lack of diversity, but the work coming out of Yale is ridic. Everytime I see someone amazing, they came from there.

[rama]

Congrats on your acceptances....

MassArt and ICP-Bard are both solid programs. I think Columbia, IMHO, is the better choice. My friend graduated from there and they are very interdisciplinary. You are interacting with all the grad faculty (much like MICA) and even though Thomas Roma's work is more traditional, it is not indicative of where the graduates are going with their work. Dana Hoey is also on staff and is fabulous. The biggest selling point for Columbia are their phenomenal visiting artists. (Thomas Struth, Alec Soth, Lorna Simpson, Rineke Dijkstra...) You name it, and they make them available to the grads.

If debt is an issue, though, or if you had to choose between MassArt and ICP-Bard...I am afraid that is a personal decision. I wasn't really attracted as much to the ICP program at Bard, because there are alot of commercial photographers working with the program. Not my thing. But, some people think it's an insanely wonderful program and some of the work is pretty fabulous, especially if you are into documentary or portraiture. MassArt's praises have been sung all on this board, too.

For me, I would look first and foremost at the grad work coming out of the programs. If I didn't like the work, I didn't apply/accept. That was a huge decision maker. People can say whatever they want about Yale's lack of diversity, but the work coming out of Yale is ridic. Everytime I see someone amazing, they came from there.

@ littlenova Thanks

Would it be possible at all to write to your friend who graduated from Columbia. It would be a great help.

[rama]

@littlenova I don't see many photographers coming out of Columbia at least from looking at their website. Correct me if I am wrong.

[selkie]

I didn't say it before but this has been my first year applying to MFA program in photography and I'm not from the USA. This forum was so helpful that I have to say a general thanks!

@Rama

About Yale I think that they are the best photographers trainers ever but for people who want to be free to experiment, who want to take some risk and do something radically new and innovative it's the wrong place. I got this idea looking at the excellent work coming from their program of which the only lack, for me, is to be conformistic and I don't mean in a political way but in an aesthetical one. I had the same feeling about them to be a patriarchal institution and probably it is - which recalls so many traumas to my mind!.

But their aim is giving to the world superstar photographers and they're really good at doing it!

@Shutterbug

I'm currently studying at the SMFA and want to give you my point of view so that you can have more informations. I don't know which is your main medium and mine is photogaphy. But having a knowledge of most of the departments I can tell you that who does political works is just a little part of the faculty. In my department it's interesting the variety that with have. Every teacher seems to cover a particular kind of photography but on more than 8 photo teachers just two do conceptual/political work. My work is really very far from being political and not just they love it but promoted it around and wanting me to partecipate to some exhibitions that we had this year to represent the school. One thing that I'm gonna really miss of the SMFA and that I don't think I'll find anywhere else is the huge freedom and the help receive to find my own personal expression.

As for the 3 years, you're right...I don't like it too! But the third year is free and you are supposed to be working one you're thesis, so you can be in any place in the world.

Finally, I'm surprise to hear that about Laura McPhee. I had such a good impression when I met her that I can't imagine her to instill fear. She seems so sweet!

[littlenova]

@Rama: There are a bunch...Too many to name: Mika Rottenberg, Yola Manakhov (look at her fine art work...not editorial), Fiona Gardner, Nina Berman, Matt Keegan, Christy Gast, Stephen Hilger, Vesna Pavlovic, Catherine Czacki...I'm sure there's more...But, I think you might have the wrong impression...

When you are at Columbia, from what I have heard, there is not a strong emphasis on one discipline. You are in a Visual Arts MFA program...You critique with all the disciplines and there is a very small number of photographers. If you want more of a concentration on Photography, MassArt or ICP might be better.

I don't want to give out my friends info just yet, but let me shoot her an email and see if she'll talk with you. I think they should provide you with connections to alumni if you ask. Most programs do... (MICA did for me, upon my request and it was really helpful)

[rama]

Thanks a ton for all the info. Its very helpful. Also, thanks for writing to your friend for me.

[jon cocktoe]

I didn't say it before but this has been my first year applying to MFA program in photography and I'm not from the USA. This forum was so helpful that I have to say a general thanks!

@Shutterbug

I'm currently studying at the SMFA and want to give you my point of view so that you can have more informations. I don't know which is your main medium and mine is photogaphy. But having a knowledge of most of the departments I can tell you that who does political works is just a little part of the faculty. In my department it's interesting the variety that with have. Every teacher seems to cover a particular kind of photography but on more than 8 photo teachers just two do conceptual/political work. My work is really very far from being political and not just they love it but promoted it around and wanting me to partecipate to some exhibitions that we had this year to represent the school. One thing that I'm gonna really miss of the SMFA and that I don't think I'll find anywhere else is the huge freedom and the help receive to find my own personal expression.

As for the 3 years, you're right...I don't like it too! But the third year is free and you are supposed to be working one you're thesis, so you can be in any place in the world.

Finally, I'm surprise to hear that about Laura McPhee. I had such a good impression when I met her that I can't imagine her to instill fear. She seems so sweet!

It's amazing how different first impressions can be. I know there are other photographers at SMFA, but I didn't get the impression that they work with grad students. Come to think of it, the whole website was a little unclear about just what goes on there. And just out of curiosity, are you funded? I got the impression that SMFA is pretty expensive, and I couldn't really find and specific information about assistantships and scholarships and such. I'm kind of feeling like I may have missed out, but oh well.

And FWIW, I never actually met Laura McPhee, what I mentioned was just hearsay from the current grads. Regardless of her personality, her work is one of my favorites.

[selkie]

I agree with you that it's veryh ard to understand what kind of work people are doing at the SMFA, expecially the master students. I had an idea looking at the student annual exhibition but the website it's usless for this. This school is very small and the grad and undergrad students are in the same classes (except for the seminars) that is something that I don't like because I believe that the master works better if you belong to a little crew that work closely.

As for the funding. I'm new to the US so I still didn't understand how it works with the funding but yes...I received easily and quickly a financial help and almost the 80% of the people in the school received it. In my case it was a "discount", I don't know if other people have been helped in a different way. I can say that they're pretty jenerous and this at the end means that the SMFA in not a rich school!