Swapping Disciplines

[Bumblebee9]

Hello all!

I'm wondering if students with BAs and Masters in different fields (and little geography course work) are commonly accepted into geography MA or PhD programs. I'm interested in switching fields. I've always had an aptitude for courses in the social sciences, but I followed the humanities track instead. Now I've got an MFA that I loved every minute of getting but don't have much use for. I took only one geography course in my undergrad (other somewhat related courses: anthropology, language and society, philosophy of the environment, some themed history courses, etc.). I really regret not taking more geography classes--I was very interested in the field). I am most interested in culture and place. My interest has lately been renewed by authors like Terry Tempest Williams and John McPhee, who make connections between society and place.

Would pursuing a PhD program be appropriate, or should someone with a masters in a different field apply to MA programs?

I kind of feel locked into the humanities track.

[wordbird]

It probably depends on the school you are applying to. They may let you into the PhD, or maybe they will make you do some undergrad classes before they let you into a MA. Your best bet is probably to talk to the grad program coordinator for a program you are interested in, and see what they say.

[rising_star]

My experience has been that geography departments are really open to people with different backgrounds. A count in my own dept today found that we have 6 faculty with PhDs in something other than geography. I have an undergrad degree in literature and didn't have too much of a problem getting into a geography MA and subsequently a geography PhD program. One thing that geography does differently than many other disciplines is to accept students into the MA first and the PhD later. Very few programs directly admit students with only a BA to the PhD program.

[User Generated Content]

I'd just agree with rising_star and echo my own experiences. I have a BA in Sociology, and my department seems to like me just fine. Our own faculty have a wide variety of backgrounds.

[centuries]

I'd just agree with rising_star and echo my own experiences. I have a BA in Sociology, and my department seems to like me just fine. Our own faculty have a wide variety of backgrounds.

Is this even if you are switching from something that is more easily to explain as related to cultural geography to physical geography? Thanks everyone for the great advice so far though

Edited August 23, 2010 by centuries

[rising_star]

Is this even if you are switching from something that is more easily to explain as related to cultural geography to physical geography? Thanks everyone for the great advice so far though

I'm not quite sure what you're asking...

[geodrake]

As I've had many professors tell me, it's unusual to find a Geography professor who went straight Geography. Most have a mixed background in there somewhere. Our department has a number of grad students who have their undergrads in History, Biology, Philosophy, Anthropology, etc. I'm sure it differs by school, but usually it's a matter of taking the core undergrad classes to get "caught up". Given the vastness of integration with other disciplines, I'd say Geography tends to draw people from other disciplines who finally realize a spatial component matters in the equation

[HMC]

My master's program had 7 people total, all of whom came from very diverse undergrad backgrounds: 1 from architecture, 1 from meteorology, 1 from political science (me), 1 from biology, 1 with a BA/MA in forestry... and only 2 people came in as geography undergrads. So, this encouragement people are giving you is true, in that sense: It is a diverse field.

However, I would like to insert an element of realism and caution into this discussion so that you don't erroneously waste your money and time attempting the (near) impossible... Coming from the humanities, you probably won't be able to jump right into a PhD; you're very unlikely to be accepted with a MFA degree. BUT, if you're very serious about switching fields, I would advise you to do your MA in geography at a less-competitive university and then work your way into a PhD.

You see, even if you somehow managed to get into a PhD program in geography (straight from the MFA)- you absolutely will not receive support without a strong background in earth science. They'll expect you to be able to instruct introductory and intermediate courses in the field. If you've only had a few undergrad classes in the subject, you can't do that. And they will know this right away when they review your application. They will throw out (probably recycle) your application and immediately send you the standard "we're sorry - you were a good candidate - blah blah blah" email.

On the other hand, go to a master's program - immerse yourself in the field. Maybe you'll snag a TA spot for a couple semesters to prove you have working knowledge of the field... Suddenly, your PhD program candidacy stock just went way up! Your previous weakness in the subject (and strength elsewhere) is now viewed as extra experience. Your master's in another field that would have signaled your flakiness is now seen as proof that you are capable of multiple achievements. See what I mean? Get that MA or MS in a geography program, and the world is yours (literally, you can manipulate all of that in GIS). Don't just try to go directly to the PhD because you feel like you're getting old or that you've already earned a master's. There's no shame in getting two.

[rising_star]

However, I would like to insert an element of realism and caution into this discussion so that you don't erroneously waste your money and time attempting the (near) impossible... Coming from the humanities, you probably won't be able to jump right into a PhD; you're very unlikely to be accepted with a MFA degree. BUT, if you're very serious about switching fields, I would advise you to do your MA in geography at a less-competitive university and then work your way into a PhD.

No reason to aim low. I got into a good MA program at a competitive university with a humanities bachelor's degree and no relevant work experience.

You see, even if you somehow managed to get into a PhD program in geography (straight from the MFA)- you absolutely will not receive support without a strong background in earth science. They'll expect you to be able to instruct introductory and intermediate courses in the field. If you've only had a few undergrad classes in the subject, you can't do that. And they will know this right away when they review your application. They will throw out (probably recycle) your application and immediately send you the standard "we're sorry - you were a good candidate - blah blah blah" email.

I disagree with this completely. You can acquire the knowledge necessary while in the program and it's unlikely that a human geography PhD student would ever teach a GIS, remote sensing, or physical geography course unless they asked to. Leading labs is another story but, that knowledge is pretty basic and very easy to acquire.

[HMC]

No reason to aim low. I got into a good MA program at a competitive university with a humanities bachelor's degree and no relevant work experience.

I disagree with this completely. You can acquire the knowledge necessary while in the program and it's unlikely that a human geography PhD student would ever teach a GIS, remote sensing, or physical geography course unless they asked to. Leading labs is another story but, that knowledge is pretty basic and very easy to acquire.

That's true - I guess there's no reason to aim low. Things have been awfully competitive lately, though. So I'm just advising caution to a fine arts degree holder who is shooting for geography.

And regarding your second point - I agree with you that GIS and remote sensing are almost never run by TAs, but I actually find that many human geographers are also teaching physical geography labs, as these courses often fulfill general education requirements for earth science or physical science. Similarly, teaching assistantships are more often available for grad students with proficiency in these areas. Moreover, this person had only one geography course, total. Surely a person in that situation might be able to find financial support somehow, but it isn't very likely when you have to compete with people who have a lot of experience. That's all I was saying.

My point was not to discourage the applicant, but rather to give him or her a realistic pathway to success. I have no doubt that it would be possible to push on, right into a geography PhD from fine arts. At the same time, if I were considering that change, I would want someone to be honest with me about how I might get there.

[rising_star]

And regarding your second point - I agree with you that GIS and remote sensing are almost never run by TAs, but I actually find that many human geographers are also teaching physical geography labs, as these courses often fulfill general education requirements for earth science or physical science. Similarly, teaching assistantships are more often available for grad students with proficiency in these areas. Moreover, this person had only one geography course, total. Surely a person in that situation might be able to find financial support somehow, but it isn't very likely when you have to compete with people who have a lot of experience. That's all I was saying.

My point was not to discourage the applicant, but rather to give him or her a realistic pathway to success. I have no doubt that it would be possible to push on, right into a geography PhD from fine arts. At the same time, if I were considering that change, I would want someone to be honest with me about how I might get there.

Are you suggesting that I'm somehow *not* being honest with the original poster?

In my experience, people with NO background in physical geography whatsoever are assigned to teach physical geography labs on a regular basis. It all relates to the program's needs and who they have around. People teach outside of their area all the time, especially as graduate students. In general, you are admitted to the program first, then given funding by a TA or RA. It is only in the summer, after students have decided to enroll, that TA assignments are made so they don't really look at an applicant and go "This person could never teach a physical geography lab so we can't admit them". At least in my experience (with two different departments), it has been something more like "Oh, we need four lab TAs. Who has the most experience or took something even remotely related as an undergraduate?" If that doesn't yield enough people, then they might just ask if anyone is willing. This is why my advice was to just apply to some PhD programs and see what happens. The matching between students on TAs and TA assignments doesn't occur during the admissions process, so why eliminate yourself from the pool unnecessarily?

That said, I think the OP should be creative and explicit about his/her experience relates to the work s/he wants to do as a geography student. That's really the key to convincing people that while you don't have a geography degree, you are capable of getting up to speed quickly and that your research interests will be well served by being in a geography program.

At any rate, this is a ridiculously old thread (I originally replied to this over 11 months ago) and I'm surprised it's being brought back now.