Help in choosing between UCLA and Cornell

[Confused Goose]

Hi. I'm having a really really hard time in choosing between UCLA and Cornell. I'm on a couple of waitlists, and I'd prefer going there. It would also make for an easier decision, but seeing as how things are this year, I'm certainly not hopeful. Anyway, I need to decide between these two and I'd appreciate any input in making a final decision -

UCLA

Pros

• Puuurrrrfffffecccttt research fit. It is, in fact, exactly the kind of thing I had been aiming to do in grad school, and probably the only reason (not exactly true) why I'm even considering UCLA. The project is also something that would be a significant advancement (if achieved). In the words of the professor, it's a high risk - high reward project.
• Los Angeles - Big city. I've lived in a big city all my life, went to school in the same city. Would very much prefer a big city atmosphere, a constant buzz around.
• Milder weather - Something I've just begun considering. Since I tend to pick up lung infections easily, the easy, dry weather would be helpful.
• Proximity to technology industries in silicon valley, San Diego
  
  • Not as well regarded as Cornell
  • Very new professor. I'd be the only PhD student with that professor, and the only person in that group working on that project. That means, no one else apart from the professor to turn to in case of assistance.
  • While there are other professors I had mentioned on my SoP, I wouldn't want to work with anyone else now, so effectively, for better or worse, I would be stuck with my prof.
  • From whatever I could glean from their website, their program is perhaps not as comprehensive/flexible as I'd like.
  • Part of the UC system. Lot of things highly uncertain, but my funding is guaranteed through project grants.
  • Expensive city, terrible public transportation
    Cornell
    
    Pros
    
    • Better ranked overall
    • Very flexible program
    • Absolutely beautiful campus
    • An inexpensive town
    • Have quite a few friends here, already studying or joining this Fall
    • Placements seem to be good from what I hear

  Cons

  [*]Not as good a research fit, although there are more profs with whom I can see myself working.[*]Small town - Coming from a large metropolis, this is the kind of place where I can very very easily get bored.[*]College town - I've never really experienced such a place, but living in a town dominated by college population can have its drawbacks. Things may be great during school, but summer and breaks can be quieter. As I said, I like the constant buzz of human activity around me.[*]Isolated - This is something I'm apprehensive about. It's a small town with no escape if one doesn't have a car.[*]Weather - again, a little concerned about colder weather

  Wow...it's a nice little (nope....long) list. What do you guys think? Have I missed out on any point? And more importantly, what do you think I should do?

[remixed486]

Just wanted to comment on a few of the points you made:

• Currently, the UC System's financial resources is probably the most unstable it's ever been thanks to the large budgetary cuts on public education in the state. While it might not directly affect how your education will be funded, it is likely it will affect how much money your department or college gets from the university. That, in turn, could affect what classes are available, shared resources within the department and how many more graduate students will join the department in the coming years.
• Sounds like wherever you go, you're going to need a car.
• The Silicon Valley actually refers to the Southern part of the Bay Area where a lot of technology businesses/firms are located (e.g. San Jose, Santa Clara). It's about a 4-6 hour drive from LA depending on how fast you're going and traffic.
• San Diego is closer, but that's also a 2-3 hour drive.
• The weather might be milder than Ithaca, but I can assure you the air pollution in LA is far greater. In fact, driving into LA you can often times see a yellow haze suspended above the city. If you're susceptible to lung infections, that's something you might want to consider.
• Driving is not only a hassle in LA, but so is parking. I'd try and find an apartment with a garage. If not, permit street parking is the next best thing, but make sure you're an expert at parallel parking (seriously, the curbs are lined with parked cars, bumper-to-bumper).
• Are the profs at Cornell aware of the kind of research you want to do and welcome to take in your interests? If so, you can always carve your own path at Cornell.
• Are you planning to stay in whichever town (or the surrounding area) after receiving your PhD? If you're planning to move again, then remember this is going to just be a few years of your life.
• How well do you get along with the faculty and graduate students at UCLA versus Cornell? That's something I would also take into consideration.

So basically, I think you should go to Cornell. I think it's a safer bet, especially if the faculty there are willing to help cultivate your research interests even though it's not exactly what they are doing. Plus, it sounds like you might have a better support system at there versus UCLA.

As a disclaimer, I actually did my undergrad at UC Berkeley and my sister is doing her undergrad at UCLA right now, so I have nothing personal against LA, UCLA or the UC system. I love LA, but after visiting there several times I've realized it's more of a place to visit rather than to live. I've never been to Ithaca before, so I can't really say much about what it'd be like to live there.

Goooood luck!

Edited April 7, 2010 by remixed486

[mmm35]

I've heard it is dangerous to go to a school for one professor. If he is brand new, does he have tenure yet? If not, and if things continue to get worse in California, you should realize that while the school is not paying you it is paying him . . .

If there are people at Cornell who have research that you have some interest in then I would say pick Cornell. Your research interests will probably change a bit anyway, and it sounds to me like Cornell is a sure thing while UCLA is a huge question mark.

As far as living in Ithaca goes, the weather is deffinitely miserable, but the town is fantastic. People frequently stick around for summer because it is the best time of year there. If you are at all into nature, farmers markets and outdoor activities I don't think you will get bored there. The university brings in lots of cultural stuff, and NYC is only a bus ride away if you get desperate. The only thing I really noticed missing during my time in Ithaca was having a place to go shopping (like clothes shopping) but that isn't a huge deal and poor grad students can't afford clothes anyway (though Cornell's engineering stipend is very very high when you consider the cost of living in Ithaca)

[origin415]

Just from looking at US News, the ranking gap is 11 Cornell vs 14 UCLA, which is pretty much an ignorable gap, within the margin of error of any ranking system, but this could be different for EE specifically. And besides all this, your research is more important, and with the fit, your research will be better at UCLA.

I think being the only student of the prof would be good, you'd get a lot of attention. While its high risk for a complete success, I find it hard to believe that even if you don't get that significant advancement, you won't be able to pull it together into something quality otherwise. Besides, you won't make any significant advances UNLESS you take chances like that. I say go for it.

[psycholinguist]

I don't think you could go wrong here! Both programs sound like great bets.

For the record: I did my BA at Cornell, and had concerns similar to yours about Ithaca. What I found was this:

• I was also coming from a much larger city, but the size of Ithaca didn't bother me much. You're busy all the time at Cornell; there's plenty to do on campus; and it's a delightful little town for such a small place. The winters are definitely long and cold, but they're manageable with warm clothing (buildings are always well-heated), and Ithaca is stunningly pretty year-round. And, yes, the air-quality is fantastic.

• Yes, the isolation does drive you crazy at times, especially if you don't have a car. But it's not terrible. You can rent one (though I think there might be a minimum-age of 25 or something) and there are a lot of exciting cities within a few hours: New York City, Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto, etc.

Best of luck!

[fuzzylogician]

Cornell sounds like the overall better choice. I'd be wary of going to a school that only has one potential advisor--that's dangerous on several levels. What if he leaves? what if you don't get along? what if your interests change? what if the project doesn't work out? what if you get tired of the isolation from the other students even if all of the other things do work out? I think you'll have a lot more options at Cornell.

[Confused Goose]

 Thanks everyone. I agree with all of the points that you all have made, and I guess I've considered them in one way or the other. I must say, my rational, sane side does say Cornell is the best option overall. But, I can't get rid of that nagging feeling at the back that something just isn't right, and am just unable to feel excited about it. And it's the opposite with UCLA - too many red flags, but I get that warm, fuzzy feeling of it being just right I am one super-confused goose

I'm not worried about my research interests changing at UCLA, since the project sits at the convergence of everything I'd ever got interested in during undergrad. It is THE project for me. However, I'm seriously concerned about him being an as-yet untenured professor at a UC. Also, I very much prefer bouncing my thoughts and ideas off colleagues, and I'd be having none at UCLA. Now that I think about it, there are perhaps a couple of other profs with whom I wouldn't mind working. Another point is, I have little idea of placements post-PhD. This area of work is relatively new, especially so at UCLA.

As for Cornell, ho-hum. Things are okay, perhaps good, as far as research is concerned. I love the outdoors, so that's great there. Have a LOT of friends there from my current school, as well as my aunt and her family living on Long Island/NYC. This is a pretty big plus, being an international student.

Grrrghhhh...I really need to make a decision and get on with my thesis.

@psycholinguist : Did you ever stay back in the summer? I can imagine things being pretty nice during school months, but how's the atmosphere in town during breaks?

@origin415 : Yeah, those are exactly the reasons why I'm still considering UCLA, in addition to the project proposal, and why I am so confused right now.

@watergirl : Thanks a lot. You surely make Cornell and Ithaca sound a lot more appealing, really

@fuzzylogician : The isolation that you mention is one of the reasons of my confusion too. LA - bigger, brighter place, but no colleagues. Ithaca - many colleagues, but dreary, isolated location. I usually socialize with my co-workers, so I guess Cornell edges out on that front.

@remixed486 : Thanks for the info on LA. I haven't been to either school, so can't say much, but have gathered a fair bit of info on Cornell from my friends there. Trying to get in touch with some EE PhD student at UCLA now.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Confused Goose

[BKMD]

I was in a similar situation - basically, one school (CMU) had a very new professor who was researching nearly exactly the same thing that I'm interested in (and in fact, that research group was already using something I published last summer), but there was no one else that I would really consider a good option for a primary advisor. The other school (JHU) had a few people that could competently advise me, and even though none were doing exactly what I was doing, their interests were related enough that I felt like I could still do what I wanted to do (and they agreed).

Personally I ended up choosing the second school, because I felt it would be better to have multiple potential advisors, since I am told that your advisor is perhaps the most important factor. You never know if someone might leave, and you also never know if you'll be compatible with your original advisor (personality-wise). Also, there was a good mix here of energetic new professors as well as well-respected full professors.

I have to say that it was a really hard choice. Location wasn't even a factor for me (Pittsburgh vs Baltimore... pretty similar), but in your case it's certainly something that you need to consider. Some people say that location shouldn't be a factor, and maybe for some people that's true, but you have to be happy where you're living in order to succeed.

Here's what I would do:

- Try to find more faculty at UCLA that you might want to work with, since you seem to want to choose this school. Share your concerns the one professor you're interested in and see what she/he has to say about your other options.

- Talk more with the faculty at Cornell (on the phone, if they are willing) and see how interested they seem in your particular research idea.

- Try to talk to students at Cornell who came from a big city and ask how they adjusted and if they still have concerns. I'm sure you'll find a number of people in this boat.

[psycholinguist]

 Thanks everyone. I agree with all of the points that you all have made, and I guess I've considered them in one way or the other. I must say, my rational, sane side does say Cornell is the best option overall. But, I can't get rid of that nagging feeling at the back that something just isn't right, and am just unable to feel excited about it. And it's the opposite with UCLA - too many red flags, but I get that warm, fuzzy feeling of it being just right I am one super-confused goose

I'm not worried about my research interests changing at UCLA, since the project sits at the convergence of everything I'd ever got interested in during undergrad. It is THE project for me. However, I'm seriously concerned about him being an as-yet untenured professor at a UC. Also, I very much prefer bouncing my thoughts and ideas off colleagues, and I'd be having none at UCLA. Now that I think about it, there are perhaps a couple of other profs with whom I wouldn't mind working. Another point is, I have little idea of placements post-PhD. This area of work is relatively new, especially so at UCLA.

As for Cornell, ho-hum. Things are okay, perhaps good, as far as research is concerned. I love the outdoors, so that's great there. Have a LOT of friends there from my current school, as well as my aunt and her family living on Long Island/NYC. This is a pretty big plus, being an international student.

Grrrghhhh...I really need to make a decision and get on with my thesis.

@psycholinguist : Did you ever stay back in the summer? I can imagine things being pretty nice during school months, but how's the atmosphere in town during breaks?

@origin415 : Yeah, those are exactly the reasons why I'm still considering UCLA, in addition to the project proposal, and why I am so confused right now.

@watergirl : Thanks a lot. You surely make Cornell and Ithaca sound a lot more appealing, really

@fuzzylogician : The isolation that you mention is one of the reasons of my confusion too. LA - bigger, brighter place, but no colleagues. Ithaca - many colleagues, but dreary, isolated location. I usually socialize with my co-workers, so I guess Cornell edges out on that front.

@remixed486 : Thanks for the info on LA. I haven't been to either school, so can't say much, but have gathered a fair bit of info on Cornell from my friends there. Trying to get in touch with some EE PhD student at UCLA now.

I spent the month of August in Ithaca once. It's quieter there during the summer, but not silent; there are plenty of students around who are taking classes and/or working locally. The weather is very hot and usually humid; it's sometimes unpleasant, but also affords lots of opportunities to check out the many state parks nearby. Great hiking.

You know, though, as elusive and maddening as a 'warm fuzzy feeling' can be, it might be an indication that you personally would simply be happier at UCLA. If a place just doesn't feel right, then it just doesn't feel right...and there's no guarantee that this would change.

[Confused Goose]

Thanks everyone for all your inputs. I've decided upon Cornell (finally after sooo much vacillating!!!)

I talked to loads of people, and realised that while I do have prefer the UCLA project, my interest in such a thing was purely academic, something not entirely compatible with my long term goals. Plus, I've been working on something relatively similar for a couple of years now, and am eager to learn something new.

Once this got out of the way, the location question resolved itself. I guess many of my concerns, though genuine, were magnified in my perception because of this contradiction. Much relieved now and quite excited about Fall!!!

[psycholinguist]

Thanks everyone for all your inputs. I've decided upon Cornell (finally after sooo much vacillating!!!)

I talked to loads of people, and realised that while I do have prefer the UCLA project, my interest in such a thing was purely academic, something not entirely compatible with my long term goals. Plus, I've been working on something relatively similar for a couple of years now, and am eager to learn something new.

Once this got out of the way, the location question resolved itself. I guess many of my concerns, though genuine, were magnified in my perception because of this contradiction. Much relieved now and quite excited about Fall!!!

Congrats on making the decision!

(And let me be the first to welcome you into the Cornell community. * grins *)

[Confused Goose]

Congrats on making the decision!

(And let me be the first to welcome you into the Cornell community. * grins *)

You're going to Cornell? Nice to meet future schoolmates :-) Perhaps we could arrange for a Cornell GradCafe Forumites party in August

[psycholinguist]

You're going to Cornell? Nice to meet future schoolmates :-) Perhaps we could arrange for a Cornell GradCafe Forumites party in August

No, I did my BA there. But by all means go recruit some people from the Cornell threads and have the party! * grins *

[red_crayons]

Can I join the Cornell party?

Woo hoo, Cornell!

I'll be in the Communication department, and I've been *ahem* pretty active in the Ithaca/Cornell threads lately...

[Confused Goose]

Can I join the Cornell party?

Woo hoo, Cornell!

I'll be in the Communication department, and I've been *ahem* pretty active in the Ithaca/Cornell threads lately...

By all means! Go Big Reds!