BC MTS/Vandy MTS opinions?

[sacklunch]

Long story short, I need to decide between Vandy and BC (Theo/Ministry). I am initially drawn more towards BC for several reasons, such as my familiarity with Jesuit schools (my current institution), I like Boston (assuming it's better than Nash), ect.

Ultimately I want to get my doctorate in biblical studies, hopefully teaching somewhere.

1. What school has more pull in biblical studies?

2. What school would you rather go to?

I was a little concerned after looking at BC's schedule, since they don't offer as many exegetical classes as I would like. Also, they don't require a language for their MTS, which seems rather atypical, no? Their reasoning was having only two years to get a lot of info in, and they would like people to be able to focus on other things if they want. They do offer languages, just not required. Also, they are a part of the BTI, so I can potentially take classes at Harvard div, Holy Cross, ect.

I got 45% off at Vandy, 50% off at BC.

I also talked to a current MTS-biblical studies student at BC who said he has taken quite a few of his language and exegetical courses through the BTI, and BC assured me you can take up to 50% of your classes elsewhere...but is this bad?

Will taking courses at other institutions matter, say when I apply for a phd? Will the school look and see "MTS - BC" and think, "Oh, well they don't have a strong biblical studies requirements (although offered there and mostly through the BTI), so lets not even look at this guy."

I am stressing out about this....WHAT IS YOUR HONEST OPINION for someone who wants to get their phd and teach in biblical studies, with a hefty focus in biblical languages?

thanks!!

-Nick

Edited April 8, 2010 by wagnern

[coffeekid]

Nick,

First, congrats on getting into some great programs! From your sub-profile, it looks like you may have already gone with Vanderbilt. I've already committed there for the MTS as well, so PM me if you are so we can meet up.

As for languages, I don't know of any MTS programs that require a language (I've looked at a few), but if you take the initiative to take the courses as electives, they can go on your CV all the same. I know that Vanderbilt has all the relevant bib languages regularly. Also, if you are just interested in developing a language on the side, you can audit any course at the university for less than $100, and it will go on your transcript (without a grade of course).

To be honest, I would think BC being so flexible with your coursework would be a strong point. My understanding is that diversity of perspective while maintaining some focus is a definite plus for the academic route. Vanderbilt lets you take a little over half of your coursework as electives, but only TWO outside of the div school and GDR. My specific interests are a bit different than yours, but I think that Vanderbilt has a pretty solid biblical studies faculty (A.J. Levine especially for NT).

As for Nashville, it was surprisingly beautiful down there. The div building was so so, but the campus as a whole was gorgeous and the area is pretty culturally diverse (though, not to the extent that Boston is, to be sure).

Hope this helps!

Edited April 10, 2010 by coffeekid

[tk421]

Hey friends! Hopefully this will be helpful:

I am a recent graduate of Vanderbilt Divinity School. It was a fabulous experience, and I thoroughly recommend it to both of you.

First of all: the MTS degree is basically a light version of the MDiv degree. The advantage to the MTS degree is the few extra elective courses you can take. You will have the opportunity to switch if you choose. Many of my colleagues switched from the MTS to MDiv degree after their second year. I see that you're looking at PhD programs. This is from first hand experience: those who receive the MDiv degree at Vanderbilt are much more likely to be accepted at their top choice over the MTS and MA programs. If you treat the MDiv like an academic degree (opt out of courses you have already taken, enter with languages, and take courses that fall within your PhD interest), which it is, then you will have no problem being admitted to the PhD program of your choice. I can't say the same about the MTS degree. Some have been successful, but it does not seem like many make it through the application process on their first round.

Also, while Vanderbilt does accept their own MDiv, MTS, and MA students into their PhD program, it is pretty rare. A few years ago a lot of internal candidates were accepted into the PhD program, but in recent years this does not seem to be the case at all.

Vanderbilt has biblical language courses, but apart from Hebrew and Greek, none are offered regularly.

On Biblical Studies: the Hebrew Bible department is excellent: the faculty are experts in their fields and communicate well with one another. The New Testament program is another story. While they are all excellent scholars, there is no communication between a couple of them. Don't take sides and you'll be fine. wagnern: send me a personal message, if you would like, and I can connect you with one of my VDS classmates who is now in a biblical studies PhD program.

Auditing courses is free, but there is a $10 fee if you want it to appear on your transcript. Don't audit a course and subsequently not show up for half the classes. Some professors have specific requirements for auditing their courses, so make sure you talk about it with them first.

Yes, the div building is definitely so-so, but you're not going there for the building. The people inside that building are what matter the most.

On buildings: the library is currently being renovated, and the div library was renovated back in 2006.

Nashville is a great, small city. You'll adapt easily and quickly to the city life. The culture takes a little getting used to, especially if you're a female (southern men are probably the most self-entitled, narcissistic in the nation).

Please feel free to send me a personal message if you have more questions, or are looking for moving tips. I'd be happy to try to answer them for you.

Edited April 10, 2010 by tk421

[tk421]

One more thing: leverage. Especially if they are offering anything less than 70% tuition. Call and say that you want to attend, but the cost is getting in the way. Ask and ye shall receive.

[sacklunch]

I guess I was wrong about the language requirements. It seems I was looking at the graduate school of religion information, rather than the divinity. Well, my advisor and other teachers have told me for biblical studies Vandy is a better option. No clue how true this is, but just looking at BC's course list it seems to be the case...although taking classes through the BTI is pretty cool.

I haven't made up my mind altogether. I still need to send my check to Vandy Monday...or completely decide against it and go to BC. haha...damn I hate choosing!

[Jack Horner]

I'd imagine that it totally depends on what you're looking for. Both Vanderbilt and Boston College are top flight programs. I'll be attending BC in the fall, and one of the things that really excites me about the school is its focus on creating an intentional Catholic community alongside of its quality academic program. Personally, I can't imagine studying theology outside of a religious context. If that's important to you, it's something that BC has in spades.

There are a couple of pretty significant NT scholars working at Boston College (Dan Harrington and Pheme Perkins) and it's also the place where New Testament Abstracts is edited. Additionally (as you already stated), you have all of the resources of the BTI at your disposal. I'd also want to make sure that--as a masters student--you're able to get the kind of attention that you need and deserve from your professors. Are they able to dedicate the time to work with you, or are they busy focusing on doctoral candidates?

Basically, you'll be able to receive a fine education in whatever program you choose to involve yourself. In the end, it comes down to fit. Does the culture at one school suit your needs (academic, personal and spiritual) better than the other?

[sacklunch]

I'd imagine that it totally depends on what you're looking for. Both Vanderbilt and Boston College are top flight programs. I'll be attending BC in the fall, and one of the things that really excites me about the school is its focus on creating an intentional Catholic community alongside of its quality academic program. Personally, I can't imagine studying theology outside of a religious context. If that's important to you, it's something that BC has in spades.

There are a couple of pretty significant NT scholars working at Boston College (Dan Harrington and Pheme Perkins) and it's also the place where New Testament Abstracts is edited. Additionally (as you already stated), you have all of the resources of the BTI at your disposal. I'd also want to make sure that--as a masters student--you're able to get the kind of attention that you need and deserve from your professors. Are they able to dedicate the time to work with you, or are they busy focusing on doctoral candidates?

Basically, you'll be able to receive a fine education in whatever program you choose to involve yourself. In the end, it comes down to fit. Does the culture at one school suit your needs (academic, personal and spiritual) better than the other?

Hey Jack,

Like I said before, both of the schools are offering similar funding, but Vandy gave me some work study money...so that will help. I doubt I will work much, but it would be nice to get a job at the school and not have to worry about driving around town. I am really only concerned with the academic side, as I am not religious. I guess personally, Boston seems like a cooler town (obviously), but also more expensive.

I have almost no clue how I am going to decide. Blah.

[coffeekid]

Just to comment on Vanderbilt's personal/spiritual/community feel. I've only visited there twice, but it seems like a pretty solid community environment. Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday they have some form of a community gathering that ALOT of people in the program comes to (i.e. - worship, spiritual discussion, and coffee hour with free donuts and food). To be honest, this was a big pull for me, because I could tell that in addition to making a good next step academically, I will actually enjoy my time there in terms of community support.

Also, not sure of any denominational preferences, but VDS definitely seemed like an eclectic bunch. There is a slight lean towards Methodist, but they were all over the place in terms of faith when I was there, ranging from Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian, to non-Christian (I imagine there are a fair share of atheists in the mix as well).

Perhaps a current student could further elaborate on this?

[Jack Horner]

Hey Jack,

Like I said before, both of the schools are offering similar funding, but Vandy gave me some work study money...so that will help. I doubt I will work much, but it would be nice to get a job at the school and not have to worry about driving around town. I am really only concerned with the academic side, as I am not religious. I guess personally, Boston seems like a cooler town (obviously), but also more expensive.

I have almost no clue how I am going to decide. Blah.

You can't go wrong with either school. They're especially close if the religious orientation of the school isn't a major factor. Nashville will definitely be boatloads cheaper than Boston in terms of COL and rent. Just curious, why aren't you considering Emory? They have one of the best NT programs in the country.

[sacklunch]

You can't go wrong with either school. They're especially close if the religious orientation of the school isn't a major factor. Nashville will definitely be boatloads cheaper than Boston in terms of COL and rent. Just curious, why aren't you considering Emory? They have one of the best NT programs in the country.

So you really think they are about equal standing, as far as NT/Biblical studies goes? I'm not considering Emory because they didn't give me any merit based money, and I'm not paying full tuition when I can get quite a bit off at the others .

[Jack Horner]

So you really think they are about equal standing, as far as NT/Biblical studies goes? I'm not considering Emory because they didn't give me any merit based money, and I'm not paying full tuition when I can get quite a bit off at the others .

In terms of quality of scholars teaching in the program, they're equal. Vanderbilt probably has an edge in the number and diversity of classes offered each semester, since I'd imagine that they have more biblical studies/NT students at the school. Of course, Boston College allows you to take classes at the Dept of Theology and the STM, and also has the BTI at its disposal, so it's really not fair to look exclusively at the course offerings of the STM. In terms of which school has a better reputation for Scripture/NT, I really can't say. You said that your professors advised you that Vanderbilt has a stronger program. I'd imagine that reputation probably depends a lot on who you've worked with, and what type of work you've done. If you've studied closely with Amy-Jill Levine while you're at Vanderbilt, that's going to look really good when you're applying to PhD programs. Likewise, if you've studied closely with Dan Harrington or Pheme Perkins while you're at BC, that's also going to look really good when you're applying to PhD programs.

It all comes down to your personal preference and money. Good luck!

[sacklunch]

In terms of quality of scholars teaching in the program, they're equal. Vanderbilt probably has an edge in the number and diversity of classes offered each semester, since I'd imagine that they have more biblical studies/NT students at the school. Of course, Boston College allows you to take classes at the Dept of Theology and the STM, and also has the BTI at its disposal, so it's really not fair to look exclusively at the course offerings of the STM. In terms of which school has a better reputation for Scripture/NT, I really can't say. You said that your professors advised you that Vanderbilt has a stronger program. I'd imagine that reputation probably depends a lot on who you've worked with, and what type of work you've done. If you've studied closely with Amy-Jill Levine while you're at Vanderbilt, that's going to look really good when you're applying to PhD programs. Likewise, if you've studied closely with Dan Harrington or Pheme Perkins while you're at BC, that's also going to look really good when you're applying to PhD programs.

It all comes down to your personal preference and money. Good luck!

Jack,

Thanks for your input, I have heard similar things from current BC students. Since I have no real religious reason for getting the degree, and have received about the same merit money, I think Vanderbilt is the right choice. I'll mail em my stuff tomorrow. Thanks for all the great advice everyone!

-Nick

[Jack Horner]

Jack,

Thanks for your input, I have heard similar things from current BC students. Since I have no real religious reason for getting the degree, and have received about the same merit money, I think Vanderbilt is the right choice. I'll mail em my stuff tomorrow. Thanks for all the great advice everyone!

-Nick

You can't go wrong with Vanderbilt. Congratulations!

[sacklunch]

You can't go wrong with Vanderbilt. Congratulations!

Well, I changed my mind yet again. I officially accepted at BC. After a long weekend, going back and forth, I just decided that it was what I really wanted. I hope to see some of you this fall!

[coffeekid]

On 4/12/2010 at 4:41 PM, wagnern said:

Well, I changed my mind yet again. I officially accepted at BC. After a long weekend, going back and forth, I just decided that it was what I really wanted. I hope to see some of you this fall!

HA! Well, if you know what you want, consider yourself lucky. I'm sorry I won't get to meet you at VDS, but I'm sure BC will be great for you. Best of luck!