Penn reputation

[nel09]

Hi all, long time lurker. I'm lucky enough to have been accepted at Penn for my Phd. I was curious about current perceptions of the program and if anyone had an assessment on its ranking/placements at present. How does it stand next to HYP or is it generally thought of as a lower tier? What are some comparable programs to Penn at the moment? 

I realize this is not what it's all about, and there are several advisers at Penn I'd be delighted to work with. But, I understand the competitiveness of this world as well and want to make an intelligent decision that could ultimately put me in an upper tier of scholarship.

 

Thank you. 

[Bronte1985]

Penn's reputation is excellent. It's a smaller program than Harvard/Yale/Princeton, which can be good and bad, and it's reputation is, I would say, just below those schools'--in the same league as Chicago, Hopkins, Northwestern, Stanford. If you get in to HYP and there are people there you could like to work with, you may have a (very) slight advantage on the fellowship/job market than if you went to Penn, but Penn would still be an excellent choice; once you're at that level, what will really separate you from the pack is the quality of your work, your perceived promise, and one or two publications in top venues. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Bronte1985

[nel09]

Thanks for your response. Penn is definitely one of my top choices at this point, so I appreciate this valuable information. I will attend the open day to try to gain a bit more perspective. I'm very interested in working with this POI; in terms of fit, our interests are nicely aligned. One thing that does make me a bit hesitant is that the department seems to be planning for quite a few new hires, including some starting next year. Hopefully that will all be for the better.

It does make me feel better to know the program is perceived so highly. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by nel09
add'l info

[renforall]

Congrats on your achievement! I would echo the above poster's comments and say, too, that Penn has a phenomenal placement record for graduates. A quick search shows that students have landed really fantastic positions after leaving the program—professorships at the University of Michigan and NYU, curatorships at places like the National Gallery in DC, and very desirable post-docs. I would also agree that once you're dealing with a program in this range, what really matters is compatibility with faculty and whether you believe that the program will provide you personally with the necessary training to conduct high level research. The prestige is already there.

As for the new hires, my perception is that this is a positive development for the department, and it seems to be a very ideal moment to join as a student. Their recent appointments have brought in wonderful scholars who produce really intriguing work. After speaking with one of my POIs there, it seems that there is excitement about the program's growth and bringing in new perspectives. To me, Penn presents itself as a rare place to escape the rather traditional art historical thinking that you'll typically find within Ivy programs.

Edit: Would also note that Penn's consortium arrangement allows you to work with scholars at nearby universities—including those at HYP. If there's someone at these institutions that you're really keen on working with, there's likely a chance that you can still establish a dialogue with them while at Penn or even have them serve on your committee.

Edited February 25, 2020 by renforall

[chloe100]

The reputation of your particular advisor will be more important than the name of the school.  If you are able to create a dynamic dissertation committee who will help you construct an interesting project, I think you will be on solid ground. 

[nel09]

Thank you. In terms of my (somewhat limited) options it appears that it is the best fit overall. It's difficult being unable to have an on-campus visit, but I think it is my first choice. Definitely in terms of faculty compatibility, and the students and profs seem to be the warmest and most welcoming.

The new hires seem to make the program even more aligned with my interests as well. Some of the other ivies (besides Brown) appear to be a little more conventional compared to Penn as well. 

[ncan360]

Also considering Penn (PhD) so would love some more feedback or opinions if anybody has any. 

[ncan360]

And just for clarity- any additional info about the program would be appreciated. Not just info about its reputation, although that's helpful too! 

[Surreal Estate]

@ncan360 @nel09 I can only speak to the department or its reputation based on second-hand knowledge (I have friends who went through the program), but I did my master's in a related Penn program and can tell you about campus life. Penn spends a good amount of money on social stuff for students; I really felt the difference when I transferred to a state school. Campus is a little insular and there have been historic tensions between the school and the surrounding neighborhoods, but as gentrification is now well underway, that has mostly eased (whether that is good or bad depends on your perspective). It's beautiful and walkable, and the libraries are great. ICA on campus and Slought Foundation and Lightbox Film Center are just three art-focused institutions nearby; there are many. A bunch of my friends teach art practice at Penn and they enjoy their undergrad students, who tend to be dedicated and very smart.

I lived in Philly for 10 years and really loved it. If you're wanting to be involved in the arts outside of academia, it's a place where it is relatively easy to make connections, and there are a handful of great institutions where you can do internships (I did one in the Contemporary department at the Philadelphia Museum of Art). 

I think of Philly like "Cheers" -- it's a big city with a small feel, and after you've been there a little while you will often run into people you know. I am regretting a bit that I didn't apply to UPenn for my PhD, but 10 years felt like long enough. I'm not sure whether this information is helpful, but let me know if there's anything I can fill in.

I'm also struggling with making a decision in the absence of campus visits, so I thought I'd chime in!

[ncan360]

21 hours ago, Surreal Estate said:

@ncan360 @nel09 I can only speak to the department or its reputation based on second-hand knowledge (I have friends who went through the program), but I did my master's in a related Penn program and can tell you about campus life. Penn spends a good amount of money on social stuff for students; I really felt the difference when I transferred to a state school. Campus is a little insular and there have been historic tensions between the school and the surrounding neighborhoods, but as gentrification is now well underway, that has mostly eased (whether that is good or bad depends on your perspective). It's beautiful and walkable, and the libraries are great. ICA on campus and Slought Foundation and Lightbox Film Center are just three art-focused institutions nearby; there are many. A bunch of my friends teach art practice at Penn and they enjoy their undergrad students, who tend to be dedicated and very smart.

I lived in Philly for 10 years and really loved it. If you're wanting to be involved in the arts outside of academia, it's a place where it is relatively easy to make connections, and there are a handful of great institutions where you can do internships (I did one in the Contemporary department at the Philadelphia Museum of Art). 

I think of Philly like "Cheers" -- it's a big city with a small feel, and after you've been there a little while you will often run into people you know. I am regretting a bit that I didn't apply to UPenn for my PhD, but 10 years felt like long enough. I'm not sure whether this information is helpful, but let me know if there's anything I can fill in.

I'm also struggling with making a decision in the absence of campus visits, so I thought I'd chime in!

Thank you! I have been to Philadelphia once and it seemed like a cool city. Proximity to NYC is also a perk. Hard to gauge vibe/campus culture but everyone involved with the program seemed incredibly friendly and approachable. 

[bamboo0]

Would Penn be considered a top 10 program? I am considering applying next year (among other programs of course) and Penn seems like it would be a fit. I know rankings are contentious but any list I see is 5 + years old. 

 

 

[renforall]

3 hours ago, bamboo0 said:

Would Penn be considered a top 10 program? I am considering applying next year (among other programs of course) and Penn seems like it would be a fit. I know rankings are contentious but any list I see is 5 + years old. 

 

 

I’d say yes. Even though it’s a dubious metric, I think the current “top ten” list would look something like this (in no particular order): Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Berkeley, UCLA, Chicago, Northwestern, NYU, and Penn. Might swap UCLA, Chicago, or Penn out with places like Stanford or Johns Hopkins, but it doesn’t really make a big difference.

[bamboo0]

On 4/8/2020 at 6:41 PM, renforall said:

I’d say yes. Even though it’s a dubious metric, I think the current “top ten” list would look something like this (in no particular order): Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Berkeley, UCLA, Chicago, Northwestern, NYU, and Penn. Might swap UCLA, Chicago, or Penn out with places like Stanford or Johns Hopkins, but it doesn’t really make a big difference.

Thanks for this. Based on my research, I'd more or less agree! I think Penn should be a bit higher Seems like a great program from what I can tell.  

[ncan360]

3 minutes ago, bamboo0 said:

Thanks for this. Based on my research, I'd more or less agree! I think Penn should be a bit higher Seems like a great program from what I can tell.  

I am entering the PhD program at Penn in the fall, after much deliberation, and my undergraduate adviser underlined the prestige and breadth of the program.