Parsons' Design Technology vs NYU's Interactive Telecommunications Program (ITP) for Fall 2020

[MA2596]

Hi guys!

Congrats everyone for their acceptance!

Just opening this topic so we can all talk about the classic battle between Parsons' Design Technology (DT) vs NYU's Interactive Telecommunications Program (ITP) for upcoming Fall 2020. Other schools/options are welcome as well.

If you are also in a similar dilemma, would love to hear about:

• Your decision making process and why ITP or DT?
• Your background and skillset? What are you looking to achieve through the program?
• Any knowledge/information/tips/thoughts you have on each program and their respective facilities/faculties/curriculum/networking/etc.
• Some personal stats like scholarship, funding, are you an international/domestic student, etc. (optional)
• How is the school going to respond to COVID-19? If they're going online for Fall 2020, will you still attend?
• Other general questions

Edited March 26, 2020 by MA2596

[MA2596]

Currently my top two choices are Parsons DT and NYU ITP, with ACCD Media Design Practice also in the run. 

I'm an international and is in need of financial support, and Parsons offered me a much higher scholarship. I also went to an art school for my BFA and Parsons' environment and teaching style seems to suit me better. NYU ITP is quite a stretch for me, both financially (they offered 5k/year) and skillset wise (I have very little knowledge in coding/physical computation/etc., and I'm also not intensely passionate about it, but am willing to learn!), but it's also a Pass/Fail system that seems to welcome experimentation, and I definitely want to challenge myself throughout my Master.

For mer it's whether I want to go to another art school with similar line of thinking and training vs a different environment that going to challenge me

[voxpop]

Thanks for creating the topic @MA2596 !

I will post some of my thinking later but first I just wanted to chime in on one of your questions:

• How is the school going to respond to COVID-19? If they're going online for Fall 2020, will you still attend?

At this stage, I think it is a very high likelihood that at least the first semester, or at the least part of the first semester in fall 2020 will be online / using alternative methods for teaching and learning. I have been preparing for this mentally for a while, and am also prepared to be agile and keep an open mind. Most likely, starting school this fall will not be what we had originally envisioned. Even though, heartbreakingly, NYC in currently the city in the US hardest hit by the pandemic it is important to keep in mind that this is affecting just about every person, school and business across the globe.

Most schools, and particularly private institutions such as Parsons and NYU, are dependent on their incoming students to stay in business. The economic impacts of Covid-19 will be severe, and even more so if students like us choose to postpone our education. For that reason, I rather want to be part of keeping as much of “business as normal” going - and then adjust to any new form the university needs to take. As an international student I am of course depending on the US to issue visas, but it is too early to make any guesses around that because it will depend on how the situation evolves over the summer in Europe vs in the US.

I am of course glad that I am entering a 2-year program, meaning that we will most likely be able to have a “normal” academic year at least for the second year of study. I also hope you will not take this post as pessimistic, but I do find that being a "realistic optimist" and preparing mentally for a variety of outcomes really helps me stay positive.

This all being said I did really appreciate the statement that Midori at ITP wrote in her last email to ITP accepts:

“We are ITP, the Interactive Telecommunications Program, and our amazing faculty have been jumping through hoops to figure out creative ways to stay in touch with students, figure out workarounds for a lot of our more difficult classes that require fabrication and equipment and the like. ITP is filled with some creative and inventive thinkers and doers. We will get through this.”

In some ways, I think ITP (or Parsons DT) could potentially be the best and most exciting place to be next year. When I wrote my applications I had a very clear idea of the topic and challenges I wanted to focus on during my studies - but I am realizing now that this might naturally have to change. The world is changing, people’s habits are changing - and some of those new habits might prove to stay with us forever. Businesses will fail and new ones will arise. The world will have a brand new set of challenges to respond to. I think ITP will be an amazing place to tackle such new challenges and opportunities.  

(In a strange way, the ongoing pandemic has actually played a part in what is drawing me more towards ITP at this time, given its hands-on “making stuff” vibe…)

Also, this article was an important read for me in terms of preparing mentally for what could be coming: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615370/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/

[MA2596]

@voxpop Thanks for your insight! I was initially against online learning, since I don't think art school/or creative work in general can be effectively and productively taught online. I also don't think it's worth the tuition.

But I appreciate and agree with your opinion, it's a global pandemic that is hard on everyone. At the same time, it's also introducing new, unexplored narratives that can be exciting to work with during grad school  So many new questions to ask now that we no longer have access to "normal". And we still get to work on this together in some form so .. it'll be ok!

Also thanks for sharing your intentions and what you plan to make out of grad school! It's a good reminder for me... I loved my BFA but I often feel like I took it for granted at times. Having to submit a statement of intent for grads schools really keep me grounded and focused on what I want to get out of this experience, online or offline. And I get to be with a passionate pool of people who fought to get in, so it will be challenging and rewarding.

[A Bawa]

@voxpop Even I agree and appreciate what you wrote. @MA2596 I was also not in favour of online classes due to a lot of factors what you mentioned. I'd still request them if they can start this course in winters i.e January 2021. What we can learn there physically in classrooms with internship and working opportunities cannot be done remotely. So I agree to what you are saying but I'd still prefer physical classes over remotes lessons. 

 

[A Bawa]

Congratulations everyone! I am glad we all could connect and help each other make life changing decision! much appreciated

[MA2596]

@A Bawa I agree, a physical classroom is still my preferred option (it's sad to say that considering that was the norm up until recently) delaying it to Winter or Spring is a good idea. still, I think that's highly unlikely.

I have been lurking in the TNS Accepted Student Facebook group, and many current students, particularly internationals, are furious at how Parsons is handling the situation. I doubt Parsons will treat us incoming students any differently (unless there's a state-wide declaration or ban). Right now I'm just trying to wrap my head around starting online school in the Fall and see how it feels. Some days I'm ok with it, some days I just wanna bail out and defer to next year instead.

It's also interesting to see how the schools are dealing with crisis, because it says a lot about their management system. To be fair, no school is well-equipped to respond to such a pandemic. Still, getting accepted and having to decide between schools amid this chaos is very difficult, especially for international students who have so many things to consider.

[voxpop]

6 hours ago, MA2596 said:

I have been lurking in the TNS Accepted Student Facebook group, and many current students, particularly internationals, are furious at how Parsons is handling the situation. I doubt Parsons will treat us incoming students any differently (unless there's a state-wide declaration or ban).

ooooh - so this is why they started a new group for accepted students! I just got the email saying the old group had taken on a new functionality of informing current students about everything related to covid-19....

Ok - so this is something I have been kinda reticent to bring up but I do believe there could be a difference in the business of Parsons vs. NYU. They are both private institutions of course, but for instance Parsons/TNS are masters at marketing, I know about the school from their marketing. NYU ITP on the other hand, I found on a forum similar to this one while researching Parsons DT. I don't know where I'm going with this statement but I guess that I would not be too surprised if NYU has more of a students-before-profit approach than Parsons? I don't know it its ok that I am even saying that though, for all I know there could be a group of furious NYU students on FB as well.. (most likely there is haha)

What is crucial though - like you say - is how the schools and programs respond and adjust now that everything is changing. ie. will they just put classes online and call it a day or will they look for creative ways of sharing spaces a few students at a time / putting in place strict security measures / change focus of courses the first semester to be more digital-driven and adapted to a changed learning environment etc...

also @MA2596 if you have any specific examples from what have been said in the TNS group that could be relevant for decision-making, would you PM me?

 

 

[voxpop]

22 hours ago, A Bawa said:

Congratulations everyone! I am glad we all could connect and help each other make life changing decision! much appreciated

Same! @A Bawa it definitely helps having someone to discuss with, even more so now that everything surrounding the fall semester is so uncertain.

Also: on your point on them possibly postponing the semester, from a revenue-perspective I don't think they could ever do that, but agree that for us it would of course be ideal.

[verynervous]

8 hours ago, voxpop said:

ooooh - so this is why they started a new group for accepted students! I just got the email saying the old group had taken on a new functionality of informing current students about everything related to covid-19....

Could you please share the link of the old group?

[MA2596]

@voxpop Yep that's right haha. They want to welcome the new students without the drama of the old ones. I also got the email but am too lazy to sign up for another FB group, but maybe I should.

I will let you know if I see anything, but right now ... it's a lot of angry students telling incoming students they shouldn’t go to Parsons LMAO. I think Parsons is making all international students buy the school's insurance. They don't accept insurances from outside the country, but for many internationals who already have an insurance, getting a second insurance in the States is a (literal) crime. This, along with how they're dealing with the pandemic... I know these are circumstantial evidence but I can't help but feeling a bit skeptical towards Parsons (I also found their interviews very rushed) It's difficult to get a good, holistic impression of the school when everyone is so angry.

For NYU ITP,  the students are also asking for a refund, and the Dean responded .... with a video of her dancing...

Also, while I'm grateful for the scholarship and think everyone who received scholarship deserves it, I do feel like Parsons handed out a lot of scholarship this year, which is a little bit... suspicious? I asked my colleague who graduated last year and she said almost all internationals are guaranteed to have scholarship of some sort. Apparently it depends on where you coming from (say, 50 coming from country A and 2 coming from country B, then the 2 people from country B will receive more scholarships)

I personally know Parsons because I came from the art school bubble, so names like RISD/MICA/Parsons/Pratt/SVA are all familiar to me. But you're right! Parsons definitely have a stronger marketing team, and I wonder if the scholarships also play a part in this... Now that you mentioned it, I have only know of ITP through working designers. Really interesting point! 

Edited March 30, 2020 by MA2596

[MA2596]

This is suuuper hypothetical and out there, but let's say we have to take first semester online. How do you think you will do it? @A Bawa @voxpop I can imagine the lectures being online, and the crits (oh god 5hr zoom calls for crits) are also doable. Coding/screen-based work can be shared and critiqued online.

But what about collaboration? A big part that both NYU ITP and Parsons promised is collaboration. Like yes we can call each other, but I can't imagine working on group projects via zoom for a whole semester? (assuming we still have to perform some degree of social distancing then) And for NYU ITP which have courses for physical computing, it's gonna be difficult. It is possible to work on it alone in your room, but I know I'm gonna sucks at it (haha) and I would love to work near/around people and have the chance to learn from my peers.

[voxpop]

45 minutes ago, MA2596 said:

@voxpop Yep that's right haha. They want to welcome the new students without the drama of the old ones. I also got the email but am too lazy to sign up for another FB group, but maybe I should.

I will let you know if I see anything, but right now ... it's a lot of angry students telling incoming students they shouldn’t go to Parsons LMAO. I think Parsons is making all international students buy the school's insurance. They don't accept insurances from outside the country, but for many internationals who already have an insurance, getting a second insurance in the States is a (literal) crime. This, along with how they're dealing with the pandemic... I know these are circumstantial evidence but I can't help but feeling a bit skeptical towards Parsons (I also found their interviews very rushed) It's difficult to get a good, holistic impression of the school when everyone is so angry.

For NYU ITP,  the students are also asking for a refund, and the Dean responded .... with a video of her dancing...

Also, while I'm grateful for the scholarship and think everyone who received scholarship deserves it, I do feel like Parsons handed out a lot of scholarship this year, which is a little bit... suspicious? I asked my colleague who graduated last year and she said almost all internationals are guaranteed to have scholarship of some sort. Apparently it depends on where you coming from (say, 50 coming from country A and 2 coming from country B, then the 2 people from country B will receive more scholarships)

I personally know Parsons because I came from the art school bubble, so names like RISD/MICA/Parsons/Pratt/SVA are all familiar to me. But you're right! Parsons definitely have a stronger marketing team, and I wonder if the scholarships also play a part in this... Now that you mentioned it, I have only know of ITP through working designers. Really interesting point! 

hahah geeeeeez this seems to be a mess for everyone. Regarding the students wanting their money back, I dont think I am on their "side" on that issue to be honest. This is an unprecedented global emergency that is 100% outside the control of any of these schools... If was in that position I would rather look to my insurance to see what they cover.. But even that I wouldn't be to hopeful about.

I think scholarships are a big part of the business model at Parsons for sure - it is baked into the full-cost tuition. I do however think that this is the case at any school, but even more so Parsons. They even phrase it as a discount in the offer, "XX% off tuition", lol. At the company where I work now, discounts to various customers are absolutely 100% part of our business model, I dont think the schools are any different ? But I have the impression that NYUs scholarships are less part of a business-model, and more funded through donations. I base this on 1) You can see their scholarship fundraisers on their website and social accounts and 2) the fact that their scholarships are need-based as well as merit - and that's really important in any case.

Regardless of their business-model though you can of course get an equally amazing education both places, I am by no means doubting that. But I think the way the school does business might impact what actions they take during this pandemic.

 

[voxpop]

57 minutes ago, MA2596 said:

This is suuuper hypothetical and out there, but let's say we have to take first semester online. How do you think you will do it? @A Bawa @voxpop I can imagine the lectures being online, and the crits (oh god 5hr zoom calls for crits) are also doable. Coding/screen-based work can be shared and critiqued online.

But what about collaboration? A big part that both NYU ITP and Parsons promised is collaboration. Like yes we can call each other, but I can't imagine working on group projects via zoom for a whole semester? (assuming we still have to perform some degree of social distancing then) And for NYU ITP which have courses for physical computing, it's gonna be difficult. It is possible to work on it alone in your room, but I know I'm gonna sucks at it (haha) and I would love to work near/around people and have the chance to learn from my peers.

So where I currently work the whole team is now working from home, designers, engineers, the marketing team, product managers etc. And in the last two weeks we have managed to launch a multitude of new products and services in a response to covid-19 and that with the whole team working remote.

So just from that experience I now believe 100% it is possible to make stuff happen remotely. And hopefully come fall, I will be even more used to this new way of life.

I think you bring up all the same points I wound in terms of how it could work - and I definitely see Parsons studio courses, the summer bootcamp, and any physical computing courses to be the biggest challenges.

Lets say we have to continue social distancing in the fall (highly likely) I think it will depend a lot on what rules and regulations are set around that etc. Eg. what is the maximum number of people who can gather at once? Will it be 2 or 5? And will the school be allowed to use its facilities if there are less than X number of people there at a time and with certain other measures in place. For instance at ITP, I believe that most of the first semester will be the tier 1 foundation courses for us, and of those lets say physical computing is the biggest challenge. If ITP was allowed to use their facilities if there were no more than 5 persons there at a time, and the space was reserved only for very specific courses requiring in-person collaboration on physical object, maybe it would be possible to form small groups that could use the space for a designated few hours each week? haha I don't know, I get a bit sad just writing this, but its the reality we have to face now.

I also think a lot here is on the professors - to find new formats for their classes. They can not take the in-person studio-based class and try to mimic that via Zoom, they have to fundamentally change how the class is taught - with Zoom as the medium. I honestly hope they can find inspiration in that challenge and accelerate online-learning to a level that we otherwise would not have seen in 2020.

 

[MA2596]

@voxpop Ah I see! I came from a no scholarship undergraduate so when I got scholarships for graduate schools I was really surprised. My brain was like this is cool!! but also what's the deal??? Haha probably just my cynical side speaking.

The refund discussion is a can of worms for sure. I agree that no academic institution is ever prepped for this kind of pandemic. But coming from an art school background, I know how expensive it is and how essential studio time is. To make/learn art during this time is physically and mentally challenging, so I understand the anger and frustration that the current students must be going through. Not to mention so many are going to graduate with debt with little to no job prospect.

(also SVA just announced they will refund their students; they're currently the only art school to do so.) 



One good point you brought up is the professors, they're probably also finding a way to work around this too. Hopefully by Fall it will give the faculty and school enough time to develop a system that can support the incoming class. I can see the scheduling system being implemented, like 5 people in the studio every time slot, but it can get chaotic near mid-reviews or finals ?

I wonder when is a good time to start asking about this? I know Parsons moved their deposit deadline to June 15. I'm planning to email both schools to ask about their upcoming plans on how to teach the upcoming class, but I feel like any emails right now will be drowned in COVID-19 related emails and complaints.

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by MA2596

[voxpop]

6 minutes ago, MA2596 said:

(also SVA just announced they will refund their students; they're currently the only art school to do so.) 
 

Wow, did they really? Thats amazing.

I think its a good idea to ask their plans -- I wouldn't worry about it drowning in other complaints, but maybe its worth waiting a couple of weeks to see how the situation is developing in NYC? Given that we are just at the beginning of the curve, I am assuming they can not even give an answer yet. ITP changed the deadline to May 1st and Parsons to June 15th, so maybe in about two weeks time will be a better time to ask? We will all know a bit more and we will still have time to make a decision after hearing back?