MS Nonprofit Management- UOregon or Portland State?

[maplesyrupsam]

Hey all! This is my first post here so apologies if I did something wrong. 

I'm looking into some pretty niche programs for my masters and so far the only two that have perfectly fit what i'm interested have been PSU and UO. Long story short, ultimately I want an MS in Nonprofit Management(or MPA) with a concentration in Food Systems with hopes to work in food security related nonprofits in the future. My BS will be in Nutrition-Food Systems so I think that will be a pretty complementary degree. I live on the east coast though, so it's a bit hard to find information on either of these schools. I'm going on a long weekend trip later this fall to tour one of the schools and i'm having trouble deciding which, since I likely won't be able to tour the second until after I receive admissions decisions. I am also applying to two in state MPA programs, which aren't nearly as good (for me) curriculum wise but would cost about 1/3 to 1/2 of the tuition of either UO or PSU. 

Do either of these schools offer good financial aid for graduate/OOS students? 

Is there a significant cost of living difference? Tuition for UO is about 10k higher than PSU, so i'm mostly wondering if that cost is made up elsewhere. 

Do either of these schools come with a positive/negative connotation when it comes to job applications? 

I would also greatly appreciate any insight from students currently at either of these schools, and if anyone has thoughts on which school to tour when I take the first trip.

Thanks!

[carlycm]

I'm actually looking into the MPA program at UofO with a concentration in nonprofit management! 

I cant really answer any of your questions, but its cool to see someone else on here interested in the same school and a similar program

 

[GradSchoolGrad]

On 4/17/2020 at 8:53 PM, maplesyrupsam said:

Hey all! This is my first post here so apologies if I did something wrong. 

I'm looking into some pretty niche programs for my masters and so far the only two that have perfectly fit what i'm interested have been PSU and UO. Long story short, ultimately I want an MS in Nonprofit Management(or MPA) with a concentration in Food Systems with hopes to work in food security related nonprofits in the future. My BS will be in Nutrition-Food Systems so I think that will be a pretty complementary degree. I live on the east coast though, so it's a bit hard to find information on either of these schools. I'm going on a long weekend trip later this fall to tour one of the schools and i'm having trouble deciding which, since I likely won't be able to tour the second until after I receive admissions decisions. I am also applying to two in state MPA programs, which aren't nearly as good (for me) curriculum wise but would cost about 1/3 to 1/2 of the tuition of either UO or PSU. 

Do either of these schools offer good financial aid for graduate/OOS students? 

Is there a significant cost of living difference? Tuition for UO is about 10k higher than PSU, so i'm mostly wondering if that cost is made up elsewhere. 

Do either of these schools come with a positive/negative connotation when it comes to job applications? 

I would also greatly appreciate any insight from students currently at either of these schools, and if anyone has thoughts on which school to tour when I take the first trip.

Thanks!

First of all, I want to highlight that there isn't exactly a well groomed pathway to Non-Profit management. People go to that career via lots of different routes, MPA certainly is one of them, but so is MBA, experts in the field with PhDs, and people who rose through a non-profit via working in it, and other graduate degrees. 

In fact, I would argue that one of the hottest ways to get into Non-Profit management this days (especially if there is major fund raising, innovation, data crunching, and/or financial component) is an MBA from a school that tends to welcome more social impact oriented roles. 

To answer your question directly, it is not like any Non-Profit will see that you went to one grad school over another and say wow I must hire this person. It is a combination of your career experience and the convincing story you can tell. Now, I will say that there is a lot to be said about alumni affinity and regional pull. If you want to stay in the Pacific NW, U of O will give you the most benefits. If you want to go NE, PSU will give you a minor advantage. 

Bottom line, I wouldn't go to grad school just for the sake of grad school, but identify a realistic pathway from the industry at large rather than target specific schools. 

Hence, I recommend thinking about how you might big picture get into non-profit management:

1. Via work opportunities

2. Via multiple different grad school routes (not just the ones you identified)

[maplesyrupsam]

On 5/12/2020 at 7:51 AM, GradSchoolGrad said:

First of all, I want to highlight that there isn't exactly a well groomed pathway to Non-Profit management. People go to that career via lots of different routes, MPA certainly is one of them, but so is MBA, experts in the field with PhDs, and people who rose through a non-profit via working in it, and other graduate degrees. 

In fact, I would argue that one of the hottest ways to get into Non-Profit management this days (especially if there is major fund raising, innovation, data crunching, and/or financial component) is an MBA from a school that tends to welcome more social impact oriented roles. 

To answer your question directly, it is not like any Non-Profit will see that you went to one grad school over another and say wow I must hire this person. It is a combination of your career experience and the convincing story you can tell. Now, I will say that there is a lot to be said about alumni affinity and regional pull. If you want to stay in the Pacific NW, U of O will give you the most benefits. If you want to go NE, PSU will give you a minor advantage. 

Bottom line, I wouldn't go to grad school just for the sake of grad school, but identify a realistic pathway from the industry at large rather than target specific schools. 

Hence, I recommend thinking about how you might big picture get into non-profit management:

1. Via work opportunities

2. Via multiple different grad school routes (not just the ones you identified)

Thanks for the reply!

I have a decently sized list of masters programs i'll be applying to, I just mentioned those two in particular since I live on the east coast and will likely only have time to visit one(COVID-19 permitting) before applying. After doing more research though I have taken U of O off my application list, so that answers that. 

I am aware that work experience usually means more in this field than a graduate degree, and i'll have significant volunteer experience by then, but the jobs i'm looking at specifically have a masters degree requirement. I was fairly vague in my original post because I rarely see people asking about food systems + security related management careers since I didn't want to get ridiculously field specific. If I was to do anything other than MNL or MPA it would be a MS in Food Systems, but those are typically more academic oriented and not what employers are asking for in job postings for my desired career. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, maplesyrupsam said:

Thanks for the reply!

I have a decently sized list of masters programs i'll be applying to, I just mentioned those two in particular since I live on the east coast and will likely only have time to visit one(COVID-19 permitting) before applying. After doing more research though I have taken U of O off my application list, so that answers that. 

I am aware that work experience usually means more in this field than a graduate degree, and i'll have significant volunteer experience by then, but the jobs i'm looking at specifically have a masters degree requirement. I was fairly vague in my original post because I rarely see people asking about food systems + security related management careers since I didn't want to get ridiculously field specific. If I was to do anything other than MNL or MPA it would be a MS in Food Systems, but those are typically more academic oriented and not what employers are asking for in job postings for my desired career. 

So a few thoughts.

1. A lot of people conflate with applying to grad schools as the same as applying to undergrad. The big difference is that there is no common app for applying to grad school, thereby it makes it a lot more time intensive to apply to each school. Also, you really want to target in and tell compelling story about what that grad school is relevant for you and a great fit for you. Also, I don't know how many people in your war chest you have that will write you letters of recommendation. You want to make a plan to conserve them. I have never asked a single recommender write more than 2 letters of recommendation. I think at a certain people they would be annoyed to write more than 2 + I want to preserve those relationships.

Most schools require 2 to 3 letters of recommendations. So that means if you have 3 people that will write you letters of recommendation, and each is willing to write 2, then you don't have that many schools you can really apply to. I always tell people that its okay to have a good list of schools you are interested in, but you should really apply to 2 at a minimum to 5 absolute max. In fact, most people I talked to applied to 2 to 3. They should roughly fall under these categories. Reach, target, and extreme safety (I gambled and didn't go for a safety).

2. In terms of degrees, three things really matter.

A. How well the degree is known to the general public (Portability is important)

B. Brand of your school (regional factors + national brand are important).

C. Connectivity your school has to job prospects that you are actually interested in. 

I recommend you pair down your roster to what you will actually apply for based on those considerations.

That being said, I strongly recommend you don't go to MNL, or any Master's that say leadership in it period. These are essentially money making ventures from Universities to charge tuition for programs that generally are not well resourced, don't really have robust career supports, and etc. I can't think of a single non-profit leader that I have encountered (big or small non-profit that came that way via a Leadership Masters unless it was a easy online degree to satisfy a promotion requirement. 

4. Food Systems is an interesting one. I actually know quite a few people in that policy space. That includes a classmates who transferred out of my policy school because she felt it insufficiently prepared her that policy area.

The reason why Food Systems is such a unique policy area is because it is arguably the most multi-discipline policy area. You need to decently well versed in:

A. Supply chain / agriculture economics (more of a business school function)

B. Some basic level of healthcare policy 

C. Some basic level social policy as it pertains to food... this is because a lot of agriculture policy in the US is married to hunger management policies (SNAP in the US, but international models are also helpful) 

D. Some basic level of environmental/food science (some basic sciencing here). 

E. Navigating Federal and State regulatory processes (USDA, FDA, and all that jazz)

So the reason why understanding all these matters for picking schools is that you don't want to do an MPA in which you have insufficient academic/project support in any of these areas. For example, the girl from my policy school transferred to UT-Austin because that is a school that actually has a robust research and academic subject matter experts of food supply chain and agricultural economics. 

Honestly, UNC's MPA program sounds perfect for you in so many ways. I honestly can't think of a better fit. 

[maplesyrupsam]

On 5/24/2020 at 12:25 AM, GradSchoolGrad said:

So a few thoughts.

1. A lot of people conflate with applying to grad schools as the same as applying to undergrad. The big difference is that there is no common app for applying to grad school, thereby it makes it a lot more time intensive to apply to each school. Also, you really want to target in and tell compelling story about what that grad school is relevant for you and a great fit for you. Also, I don't know how many people in your war chest you have that will write you letters of recommendation. You want to make a plan to conserve them. I have never asked a single recommender write more than 2 letters of recommendation. I think at a certain people they would be annoyed to write more than 2 + I want to preserve those relationships.

Most schools require 2 to 3 letters of recommendations. So that means if you have 3 people that will write you letters of recommendation, and each is willing to write 2, then you don't have that many schools you can really apply to. I always tell people that its okay to have a good list of schools you are interested in, but you should really apply to 2 at a minimum to 5 absolute max. In fact, most people I talked to applied to 2 to 3. They should roughly fall under these categories. Reach, target, and extreme safety (I gambled and didn't go for a safety).

2. In terms of degrees, three things really matter.

A. How well the degree is known to the general public (Portability is important)

B. Brand of your school (regional factors + national brand are important).

C. Connectivity your school has to job prospects that you are actually interested in. 

I recommend you pair down your roster to what you will actually apply for based on those considerations.

That being said, I strongly recommend you don't go to MNL, or any Master's that say leadership in it period. These are essentially money making ventures from Universities to charge tuition for programs that generally are not well resourced, don't really have robust career supports, and etc. I can't think of a single non-profit leader that I have encountered (big or small non-profit that came that way via a Leadership Masters unless it was a easy online degree to satisfy a promotion requirement. 

4. Food Systems is an interesting one. I actually know quite a few people in that policy space. That includes a classmates who transferred out of my policy school because she felt it insufficiently prepared her that policy area.

The reason why Food Systems is such a unique policy area is because it is arguably the most multi-discipline policy area. You need to decently well versed in:

A. Supply chain / agriculture economics (more of a business school function)

B. Some basic level of healthcare policy 

C. Some basic level social policy as it pertains to food... this is because a lot of agriculture policy in the US is married to hunger management policies (SNAP in the US, but international models are also helpful) 

D. Some basic level of environmental/food science (some basic sciencing here). 

E. Navigating Federal and State regulatory processes (USDA, FDA, and all that jazz)

So the reason why understanding all these matters for picking schools is that you don't want to do an MPA in which you have insufficient academic/project support in any of these areas. For example, the girl from my policy school transferred to UT-Austin because that is a school that actually has a robust research and academic subject matter experts of food supply chain and agricultural economics. 

Honestly, UNC's MPA program sounds perfect for you in so many ways. I honestly can't think of a better fit. 

Thanks.

By " a decently sized list of masters programs" I mean 4 schools, 1 in state (ECU) and 3 out of state. I am not interested in UNC's program because I have spoken to multiple faculty members and it isn't exactly what i'm looking for. I am still applying to Portland State's MNL because I have only heard good things from people that have graduated from their College of Urban and Public Affairs. Having reach/safety etc. isn't nearly as important to me as having faculty members in a similar field. Policy work isn't what i'm looking to do, but nonprofit management involving food security/sustainable diet choices is.

[GradSchoolGrad]

14 hours ago, maplesyrupsam said:

Thanks.

By " a decently sized list of masters programs" I mean 4 schools, 1 in state (ECU) and 3 out of state. I am not interested in UNC's program because I have spoken to multiple faculty members and it isn't exactly what i'm looking for. I am still applying to Portland State's MNL because I have only heard good things from people that have graduated from their College of Urban and Public Affairs. Having reach/safety etc. isn't nearly as important to me as having faculty members in a similar field. Policy work isn't what i'm looking to do, but nonprofit management involving food security/sustainable diet choices is.

If anyone else with perspective in this area can give a 2nd opinion, I think that would be helpful. However, my thoughts are:

1. Unlike PhD, Undergrad, or even more hard science oriented Master's programs, in a "terminal master's program", aligning with your faculty's field is usually less important. Generally speaking faculty are generally removed from professional opportunities as their goal is to publish and do research. Adjunct Professors (not Adjunct Instructors) can be of value in professional connections though. That being said, I wouldn't translate a Professor's field directly translating to career opportunities unless they are involved an experiential learning program. 

For professional schools, I think it is more important to see where the alumni have gone (you can do that via LinkedIn) and ask Career Services to talk to a current student. Professors are important for what skills, topics, and insights and they can provide. You make you credibility in the professional world by virtue of the projects you take on (with the school and without). 

That being said, I would check out your schools less by professors and more by alumni outcomes and reach out to recent alums in LinkedIn

2.  So I can appreciate the Policy work isn't what you want to do. However, in terms of pathways to non-profit management in the food security space, the two most robust are via the business side and via the policy side. Hypothetically, you can also get to the non-profit management via the fundraising or event planning side, but that doesn't require a master's degree. Food security/sustainability is also extraordinarily complex that any management of it requires some level of policy understanding and analysis in understanding regulatory impacts - at least the non-profits I know. Again anyone with another opinion please chime in. 

[maplesyrupsam]

On 5/28/2020 at 9:40 PM, GradSchoolGrad said:

If anyone else with perspective in this area can give a 2nd opinion, I think that would be helpful. However, my thoughts are:

1. Unlike PhD, Undergrad, or even more hard science oriented Master's programs, in a "terminal master's program", aligning with your faculty's field is usually less important. Generally speaking faculty are generally removed from professional opportunities as their goal is to publish and do research. Adjunct Professors (not Adjunct Instructors) can be of value in professional connections though. That being said, I wouldn't translate a Professor's field directly translating to career opportunities unless they are involved an experiential learning program. 

For professional schools, I think it is more important to see where the alumni have gone (you can do that via LinkedIn) and ask Career Services to talk to a current student. Professors are important for what skills, topics, and insights and they can provide. You make you credibility in the professional world by virtue of the projects you take on (with the school and without). 

That being said, I would check out your schools less by professors and more by alumni outcomes and reach out to recent alums in LinkedIn

2.  So I can appreciate the Policy work isn't what you want to do. However, in terms of pathways to non-profit management in the food security space, the two most robust are via the business side and via the policy side. Hypothetically, you can also get to the non-profit management via the fundraising or event planning side, but that doesn't require a master's degree. Food security/sustainability is also extraordinarily complex that any management of it requires some level of policy understanding and analysis in understanding regulatory impacts - at least the non-profits I know. Again anyone with another opinion please chime in. 

Thanks but I am familiar with the purpose of MPA programs and am speaking specifically on the programs I will be applying to, so I don't really need a second opinion on that. I am also familiar with food systems as a field since that's what i've spent the last 4 years studying. While I appreciate the replies, I only posted this thread to gain more information on Portland State and UOregon's programs specifically, and even that is no longer necessary because I have made my choice between the two.