Berkeley's Goldman School vs. Hopkins' SAIS

[RunnINcircles]

Well it's decision day for me, I need to let Hopkins know by tomorrow whether or not I'll be attending!

I am having a difficult time deciding between Berkeley's Goldman School (MPP) vs. Johns Hopkins' SAIS (MA in IR) programs- mainly because they differ on many points. I originally applied to mostly IR schools because I think that in the end I'd like to make use of my language skills and I'd love to work at a think tank or research institution. I'm originally from the Midwest, however, and being able to come back there would be really important to me. I am unsure if I can do that with an IR-degree so that is something that does make me nervous, an MPP seems to be more flexible in that sense. I should also mention that I graduated last year, so I'm on the young end for all of these programs, and I really don't have much work experience because of that. That being said, these are the main points for me now:

Berkeley- This program is smaller, with an entering class of about 80 students. The program is located across the street from the main campus, and thus has separation from the undergrad programs. Courses are held in two buildings, one of which is an old frat house that all the GSPP students have keys to (for studying purposes, etc.). The program is quant-heavy and there is not much course freedom due to the fact that there are many required courses; however, it is possible to audit courses, though doing so for language courses is apparently difficult. For the 5-6 courses that I can choose for myself, I can take them at any of the Berkeley grad departments (all of which are very well-ranked). Basically I'd be able to make use of any of the main campus facilities, like the gym, the many libraries, and pools, but I'd still be able to get away from the undergrads. There are about 30,000 students on the campus though, between the grad students and the undergrads. The program would come out about 50K cheaper than SAIS so that's definitely something to consider.

SAIS- The SAIS program is bigger, with somewhere around 150-200 students on the DC campus the first year, and about the same in Bologna. The second year everyone would be together on the DC campus. (I would be in DC for both years.) The program is very well-known, especially for its economic focus, and it seems to a feeder to places like the World Bank and the IMF (with over 300 alum at the former). As many have pointed out, the campus can't really even be considered that- it's made up of 2.5 office buildings = no gym or facilities besides the library. The name of the school pulls a lot of weight though and it seems like no one really says no to them once they are admitted. Jobs seem to be tougher and I also wonder if it's difficult to have a well-balanced life because it seems that the program is incredibly intensive there. I wonder if without work experience I can even stand out there because everyone seems to have such incredible resumes from the start there.

Both schools have excellent alumni relations and career services from what I can tell, though of course there are many more SAIS alum so perhaps that makes those connections better? People don't recommend trying to get a job while at SAIS because of the intensity (unless you already have a lot of econ experience which I don't), but it seems possible at Berkeley. Berkeley also requires two policy projects- in which for your second semester each year you work for a client for a policy analysis project- so I would be able to add that to my resume.

All that being said, I'm still stuck and unsure if Berkeley will open the same doors as Hopkins with think tanks or IR related positions... Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated since all I keep hearing is the ticking of the clock- this time pressure makes things difficult! I'm just glad that soon we will all be set on a program and will be able to focus on the more exciting parts- meeting new people, looking for housing, seeing new places, etc.

[s33]

Well it's decision day for me, I need to let Hopkins know by tomorrow whether or not I'll be attending!

I am having a difficult time deciding between Berkeley's Goldman School (MPP) vs. Johns Hopkins' SAIS (MA in IR) programs- mainly because they differ on many points. I originally applied to mostly IR schools because I think that in the end I'd like to make use of my language skills and I'd love to work at a think tank or research institution. I'm originally from the Midwest, however, and being able to come back there would be really important to me. I am unsure if I can do that with an IR-degree so that is something that does make me nervous, an MPP seems to be more flexible in that sense. I should also mention that I graduated last year, so I'm on the young end for all of these programs, and I really don't have much work experience because of that. That being said, these are the main points for me now:

Berkeley- This program is smaller, with an entering class of about 80 students. The program is located across the street from the main campus, and thus has separation from the undergrad programs. Courses are held in two buildings, one of which is an old frat house that all the GSPP students have keys to (for studying purposes, etc.). The program is quant-heavy and there is not much course freedom due to the fact that there are many required courses; however, it is possible to audit courses, though doing so for language courses is apparently difficult. For the 5-6 courses that I can choose for myself, I can take them at any of the Berkeley grad departments (all of which are very well-ranked). Basically I'd be able to make use of any of the main campus facilities, like the gym, the many libraries, and pools, but I'd still be able to get away from the undergrads. There are about 30,000 students on the campus though, between the grad students and the undergrads. The program would come out about 50K cheaper than SAIS so that's definitely something to consider.

SAIS- The SAIS program is bigger, with somewhere around 150-200 students on the DC campus the first year, and about the same in Bologna. The second year everyone would be together on the DC campus. (I would be in DC for both years.) The program is very well-known, especially for its economic focus, and it seems to a feeder to places like the World Bank and the IMF (with over 300 alum at the former). As many have pointed out, the campus can't really even be considered that- it's made up of 2.5 office buildings = no gym or facilities besides the library. The name of the school pulls a lot of weight though and it seems like no one really says no to them once they are admitted. Jobs seem to be tougher and I also wonder if it's difficult to have a well-balanced life because it seems that the program is incredibly intensive there. I wonder if without work experience I can even stand out there because everyone seems to have such incredible resumes from the start there.

Both schools have excellent alumni relations and career services from what I can tell, though of course there are many more SAIS alum so perhaps that makes those connections better? People don't recommend trying to get a job while at SAIS because of the intensity (unless you already have a lot of econ experience which I don't), but it seems possible at Berkeley. Berkeley also requires two policy projects- in which for your second semester each year you work for a client for a policy analysis project- so I would be able to add that to my resume.

All that being said, I'm still stuck and unsure if Berkeley will open the same doors as Hopkins with think tanks or IR related positions... Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated since all I keep hearing is the ticking of the clock- this time pressure makes things difficult! I'm just glad that soon we will all be set on a program and will be able to focus on the more exciting parts- meeting new people, looking for housing, seeing new places, etc.

If you are not set on a career in DC (and it appears that you are not), my vote would go to GSPP. It is a terrific program, and the Berkeley name should carry you just as far as SAIS (farther in some places). The fact that GSPP is considerably less expensive is also a major plus.

[fallmpp2010]

If you are not set on a career in DC (and it appears that you are not), my vote would go to GSPP. It is a terrific program, and the Berkeley name should carry you just as far as SAIS (farther in some places). The fact that GSPP is considerably less expensive is also a major plus.

i am in a similar situation. i was initially leaning toward GSPP but I have recently changed my mind. After doing the cost analysis, the difference is approx $25k for me, which isn't as much as I thought it would be to uproot my life to CA from the east coast. Another point is that the GSPP tuition is going to rise. At the open house, Martha said it would rise approximately 15% over last year but the numbers won't be made official until July. That is a pretty large increase especially if it rises another 15% the second year. I think most schools increase their tuition by 4-5% each year. That being said, it seems fairly easy to get a GSI position at GSPP in your second year which would cover most costs.

its a tough decision but good choices to have... !

[RunnINcircles]

to s33- you are right, in that I do not think I would want to stay in D.C. for very long, so having the option to move to the Midwest is a big plus for GSPP. I keep wanting to make my decision official but then end up questioning whether I should be so quick to say no Hopkins which seems to be *the* place for international relations. sighhh

fallmpp- A 15% increase is definitely steep, but if that keeps the ranking of the program from going down then I guess maybe it evens out with a GSI position or at least a reader position to offset that increase- where have you decided to go?

[socaljournalist]

To give you a bit more info in making your decision (from a biased person who's already committed to GSPP)...

You can work as a GSI in your first year! I was recently offered to interview for a position that would cover full tuition and provide $1,600/month for living expenses and I will be a first-year in the fall. Yes, Berkeley's fees will go up by 15 percent, but you will be able to go there for free if you are willing to work 25 hours/week as a GSI.

Also, you're mistaken about the flexibility of the program. Your second year at GSPP is basically open to take whatever electives you want across the university - a university that is unparalleled in terms of quantity of highly-ranked graduate schools/departments. This means that you can cultivate an international focus, if you so choose, through electives in the second year.

to s33- you are right, in that I do not think I would want to stay in D.C. for very long, so having the option to move to the Midwest is a big plus for GSPP. I keep wanting to make my decision official but then end up questioning whether I should be so quick to say no Hopkins which seems to be *the* place for international relations. sighhh

fallmpp- A 15% increase is definitely steep, but if that keeps the ranking of the program from going down then I guess maybe it evens out with a GSI position or at least a reader position to offset that increase- where have you decided to go?

[RunnINcircles]

To give you a bit more info in making your decision (from a biased person who's already committed to GSPP)...

You can work as a GSI in your first year! I was recently offered to interview for a position that would cover full tuition and provide $1,600/month for living expenses and I will be a first-year in the fall. Yes, Berkeley's fees will go up by 15 percent, but you will be able to go there for free if you are willing to work 25 hours/week as a GSI.

Also, you're mistaken about the flexibility of the program. Your second year at GSPP is basically open to take whatever electives you want across the university - a university that is unparalleled in terms of quantity of highly-ranked graduate schools/departments. This means that you can cultivate an international focus, if you so choose, through electives in the second year.

wow that's an awesome offer, hopefully that works out for you! I loved the program at Berkeley but I don't know if going there means I'm giving up something I really shouldn't be turning down- everyone seems to look at me like I'm crazy for thinking of saying no to SAIS which keeps me questioning my decision. It would be nice if SAIS would pick up their phone today...

[s33]

wow that's an awesome offer, hopefully that works out for you! I loved the program at Berkeley but I don't know if going there means I'm giving up something I really shouldn't be turning down- everyone seems to look at me like I'm crazy for thinking of saying no to SAIS which keeps me questioning my decision. It would be nice if SAIS would pick up their phone today...

OP, if people are questioning your judgment for considering Berkeley over ANY alternative, I would question their judgement. These boards tend to be somewhat incestuous on matters of perceived prestige, and they are often off the mark. Certainly, SAIS is an excellent name in the IR world, but a Berkeley degree commands respect pretty much everywhere that matters. You seem to really like Berkeley and GSPP, so I cannot see why you would be questioning a decision to attend. btw, I have absolutely no connection to Berkeley.

[RunnINcircles]

Thanks I think in the end I could be happy at either, it just seems that Berkeley might allow for more balance and more opportunities (though less in IR). Once I decide if those IR opps are what I really want then I think I can finally make my decision. I think this is one of those my heart says Berkeley but my brain says Hopkins situations. Wish they both said the same thing but what can you do

[s33]

Thanks I think in the end I could be happy at either, it just seems that Berkeley might allow for more balance and more opportunities (though less in IR). Once I decide if those IR opps are what I really want then I think I can finally make my decision. I think this is one of those my heart says Berkeley but my brain says Hopkins situations. Wish they both said the same thing but what can you do

Fine, just remember that there are no guarantees anywhere, and also no certainty that you will choose to stay in IR. There is something to be said for the balance and flexibility of Berkeley/GSPP. Just my $0.02. Good luck with your decision.

[RunnINcircles]

Hi all,

Thanks for your opinions, it really helped to talk it out! I accepted at Berkeley yesterday :)

[s33]

Hi all,

Thanks for your opinions, it really helped to talk it out! I accepted at Berkeley yesterday :)

Congratulations. I'm quite confident that you will not regret your choice (no disrespect to SAIS, which is indeed excellent as well).

[RunnINcircles]

haha thanks, ya it's a great program, just not the right fit for me right now. Good luck to all of you if your decisions are still pending!

[socaljournalist]

Congrats RunnIncircles. Now you can join the GSPP Class of 2012 facebook group I just created! http://www.facebook.com/rashi.kesarwani?ref=profile#!/group.php?gid=119289384754142

(Btw, I also turned down SAIS for Berkeley.)

haha thanks, ya it's a great program, just not the right fit for me right now. Good luck to all of you if your decisions are still pending!

[RunnINcircles]

Congrats RunnIncircles. Now you can join the GSPP Class of 2012 facebook group I just created! http://www.facebook....119289384754142

(Btw, I also turned down SAIS for Berkeley.)

ah nice!

Wait so to backtrack a bit, you said that you were offered an interview for a GSI position- did you have to contact different departments to begin that process or is it for a GSI position within the Goldman school? I'm thinking of pursuing a tutoring or reader position

[socaljournalist]

Hi RunnINcircles,

Yes, you'll have to go from department to department (checking websites/emailing department coordinators and professors) if you're interested in applying for GSI/reader positions. Unfortunately, there is no central site to search for positions. But a good place to start is to e-mail Kari Hamilton with career services at the Goldman School; she can put you on her list to receive announcements about jobs across the university. You will want to jump on this asap, because most of the hiring happens in April. Reader positions tend to get filled later, I'm told, because they are contingent on specific enrollment numbers. Some departments asked me to check back with them in July for reader positions.

It's totally worth it. I got the position I interviewed for, and so will receive the full tuition remission and $1,600/month living stipend for the fall semester.

Good luck and I look forward to meeting you in August!

ah nice!

Wait so to backtrack a bit, you said that you were offered an interview for a GSI position- did you have to contact different departments to begin that process or is it for a GSI position within the Goldman school? I'm thinking of pursuing a tutoring or reader position

[RunnINcircles]

Hi RunnINcircles,

Yes, you'll have to go from department to department (checking websites/emailing department coordinators and professors) if you're interested in applying for GSI/reader positions. Unfortunately, there is no central site to search for positions. But a good place to start is to e-mail Kari Hamilton with career services at the Goldman School; she can put you on her list to receive announcements about jobs across the university. You will want to jump on this asap, because most of the hiring happens in April. Reader positions tend to get filled later, I'm told, because they are contingent on specific enrollment numbers. Some departments asked me to check back with them in July for reader positions.

It's totally worth it. I got the position I interviewed for, and so will receive the full tuition remission and $1,600/month living stipend for the fall semester.

Good luck and I look forward to meeting you in August!

Oh wow, congratulations! What department are you going to be TAing for? And thanks, I'll start looking into possible positions now in case I want to work from the beginning!

[Stan E.]

Oh wow, congratulations! What department are you going to be TAing for? And thanks, I'll start looking into possible positions now in case I want to work from the beginning!

Runnincircles:

If you were awarded financial assistance in the form of a fellowship you may want to reconsider your decision to pursue a GSI/GSR/reader position. Based on the information below, you'd only be allowed to work a 25% role as a fellowship recipient. Since the majority of 25% appointments are readers and some GSRs, you'll likely be paid an hourly wage which is substantially less than a salaried GSI role, like Rashi discusses above. The primary benefit of being a GSI/GSR/reader is tuition remission, and with your fellowship, your total compensation would be substantially less. As an alternative, you may want to seek out other opportunities, like work study or an off campus internship, to supplement your fellowship.

From: http://grad.berkeley.edu/financial/deadlines.shtml

Fellowships for Entering Students (for the 2009-2010 admissions cycle)

To become eligible for university funding, U.S. citizens and permanent residents must submit the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) by the March 2, 2009* deadline. Follow the instructions in “How to Apply for Student Loans and Other Federal Student Aid” on the Financial Aid page. In addition to the FAFSA, you must complete the appropriate fellowship sections for domestic (U.S. citizens and permanent residents) or international applicants of the Graduate Application for Admission and Fellowships to be considered for University Graduate Fellowships, Departmental Block Grant Fellowships, and Diversity Fellowships.

Fellowship recipients may supplement some fellowships with a teaching or research appointment at no more than 25 percent time per semester. Contact your department about available assistantships (see Teaching & Research Opportunities).

[RunnINcircles]

Runnincircles:

If you were awarded financial assistance in the form of a fellowship you may want to reconsider your decision to pursue a GSI/GSR/reader position. Based on the information below, you'd only be allowed to work a 25% role as a fellowship recipient. Since the majority of 25% appointments are readers and some GSRs, you'll likely be paid an hourly wage which is substantially less than a salaried GSI role, like Rashi discusses above. The primary benefit of being a GSI/GSR/reader is tuition remission, and with your fellowship, your total compensation would be substantially less. As an alternative, you may want to seek out other opportunities, like work study or an off campus internship, to supplement your fellowship.

From: http://grad.berkeley...deadlines.shtml

Fellowships for Entering Students (for the 2009-2010 admissions cycle)

To become eligible for university funding, U.S. citizens and permanent residents must submit the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) by the March 2, 2009* deadline. Follow the instructions in “How to Apply for Student Loans and Other Federal Student Aid” on the Financial Aid page. In addition to the FAFSA, you must complete the appropriate fellowship sections for domestic (U.S. citizens and permanent residents) or international applicants of the Graduate Application for Admission and Fellowships to be considered for University Graduate Fellowships, Departmental Block Grant Fellowships, and Diversity Fellowships.

Fellowship recipients may supplement some fellowships with a teaching or research appointment at no more than 25 percent time per semester. Contact your department about available assistantships (see Teaching & Research Opportunities).

Ah okay, thanks for the info Stan! That's really good to know!

[socaljournalist]

Glad you got the info you need, RunnINcircles! Stan is really helpful.

To answer your earlier question, I will be a GSI for media studies 10, an intro media class that's a good fit for my journalism background.

See you in August!

Ah okay, thanks for the info Stan! That's really good to know!

[RunnINcircles]

Glad you got the info you need, RunnINcircles! Stan is really helpful.

To answer your earlier question, I will be a GSI for media studies 10, an intro media class that's a good fit for my journalism background.

See you in August!

ah ok, very nice