Should I take GRE again?

[robu]

I took it Oct 2005, and I want to apply for 2011 fall. Justed called ETS and they say they will send my 2005 score until June 2011. So it depends on the school whether to accept it. Does anybody know how schools usually deal with this kind of situation? Just don't want to take GRE again, would rather spend time doing some research project and make my profile look better.

[DrFaustus666]

Based on what I've read in this forum, and opinions differ wildly, the answer to your question is "it depends."

IF your UGPA is very good, AND you have lots of research, AND an excellent statement of purpose, AND stellar recommendations . . . . A N D . . . . (this is critical) ... your GREs are in the top 25% of GREs (for all three scores!) for your institution and intended graduate major ...

THEN NO, you probably do NOT need to re-take the GRE

BUT if any of the above non-GRE criteria are weak in any way, or if your GRE is borderline (say, 40th to 50th percentile of their ADMITTED students to your program) ... THEN it's probably worth it to you to re-take the GRE. In spite of the outrageous $150 fee, to say nothing of the preparation you may or may not have to do.

The conventional wisdom, it seems, is "your GRE score cannot get you INTO graduate school, but it can keep you OUT [ or keep you from receiving funding even if you are admitted ]"

My two cents.

John

[robu]

Based on what I've read in this forum, and opinions differ wildly, the answer to your question is "it depends."

IF your UGPA is very good, AND you have lots of research, AND an excellent statement of purpose, AND stellar recommendations . . . . A N D . . . . (this is critical) ... your GREs are in the top 25% of GREs (for all three scores!) for your institution and intended graduate major ...

THEN NO, you probably do NOT need to re-take the GRE

BUT if any of the above non-GRE criteria are weak in any way, or if your GRE is borderline (say, 40th to 50th percentile of their ADMITTED students to your program) ... THEN it's probably worth it to you to re-take the GRE. In spite of the outrageous $150 fee, to say nothing of the preparation you may or may not have to do.

The conventional wisdom, it seems, is "your GRE score cannot get you INTO graduate school, but it can keep you OUT [ or keep you from receiving funding even if you are admitted ]"

My two cents.

John

Thanks for your answer! I know retake it will probably solve all the problem, just doubt that I will get a higher score than last time(V580/Q800/AW4.5) and if I do poorly, it could make my profile worse, because the more recent score is even worse. Btw, I have a MS degree, will that help with the GRE issue?

robu

[DrFaustus666]

Thanks for your answer! I know retake it will probably solve all the problem, just doubt that I will get a higher score than last time(V580/Q800/AW4.5) and if I do poorly, it could make my profile worse, because the more recent score is even worse. Btw, I have a MS degree, will that help with the GRE issue?

robu

Hi Robu,

You haven't said what major you'd like to apply in, whether you're looking for a top school, or possibly a middle-level school that would provide funding, etc., etc.,

It's hard to say.

I GATHER, and it's just my guess, from your name and from a couple of minor grammatical errors in your posting, that you are not a native speaker of English.

In that case, I'm told you TOEFL score is more important than your GRE Verbal. But 580 is NOT a bad verbal score, especially for someone whose native language is not English, and even more, for someone who is probably in technical / quantitative field (Q=800)????

In general though, I'd say an MS degree probably helps you, yes.

John

[robu]

Hi Robu,

You haven't said what major you'd like to apply in, whether you're looking for a top school, or possibly a middle-level school that would provide funding, etc., etc.,

It's hard to say.

I GATHER, and it's just my guess, from your name and from a couple of minor grammatical errors in your posting, that you are not a native speaker of English.

In that case, I'm told you TOEFL score is more important than your GRE Verbal. But 580 is NOT a bad verbal score, especially for someone whose native language is not English, and even more, for someone who is probably in technical / quantitative field (Q=800)????

In general though, I'd say an MS degree probably helps you, yes.

John

Hi, John,

You are right, I'm not a native speaker of English. I got an MS in the United States, so probably TOEFL can be waived. My TOEFL score has already expired, though I'm more confident in it than my GRE score.

My undergrad major is Math, and got MS in Mathematical Finance. So I have some choice, maybe some Math Ph.D. program, where there are professors doing research in Math Finance, or Ph.D. in Finance in some Business school, or Economics, where I can do decision theory. Of course I want to go to top schools, because I'm considering pursuing a academic career.

[Nibor6000]

Hi there,

What do you get by retaking the GRE? You're not going to improve the Quant score, which is what your program will be most interested in. Many schools don't place much weight on the AW portion, and the verbal score is pretty good for a non-native speaker.

I would focus on the LORs, SOP, research, pubs, etc. I don't think your GRE is a deal breaker (and I usually tell everybody to retake the GRE!).

Good luck to you!

[DrFaustus666]

Hi, John,

You are right, I'm not a native speaker of English. I got an MS in the United States, so probably TOEFL can be waived. My TOEFL score has already expired, though I'm more confident in it than my GRE score.

My undergrad major is Math, and got MS in Mathematical Finance. So I have some choice, maybe some Math Ph.D. program, where there are professors doing research in Math Finance, or Ph.D. in Finance in some Business school, or Economics, where I can do decision theory. Of course I want to go to top schools, because I'm considering pursuing a academic career.

Hi Robu,

First I agree with Nibor, your Verbal score is not bad at all, and your Quant won't get any better.

Nibor's comments also reminded me that there is MUCH controversy around the AW score---so much so that even top political science or English literature etc., where writing is all-important---even those programs DO NOT generally put a lot of emphasis on the AW score.

Finally, you got an 800 GRE Quant. You probably know, but you may not know, that a full 4 percent of GRE takers get an 800 Quant score.

In other words, the 800 means you are GOOD in math, but the GRE quantitative test cannot discriminate if you are good, or very good, or excellent, or Einstein.

SO, if your math is REALLY superior, you might have a better shot at a top school by taking the GMAT. The Verbal in the GMAT is a little bit easier than the GRE Verbal; and the GMAT math is quite a bit more difficult than the GRE.

In other words, you could show yourself in the very best light possible. Just a thought.

The GMAT costs a lot: $250. But for a person with skills just as I perceive yours to be, i.e., Verbal, good, Quantitative, superior---the GMAT might be a better test.

[Nibor6000]

Interesting strategy DrFaustus666. Do math programs accept the GMAT?

[DrFaustus666]

Interesting strategy DrFaustus666. Do math programs accept the GMAT?

Nibor: The "Mathematical Finance" program might well be administered under the aegis of a Business School, which in turn might well require or at least accept the GMAT in lieu of the GRE. That's what was going thru my mind when I wrote that. I'm a liberal arts guy who dabbles in computer science ... math beyond 1st year calculus is not my area, but it SEEMED plausible enough.

At any rate, the applicant would be responsible to ascertain which test(s) he/she takes ... we are all adults and we all know we must read the list of application requirements, not only of the program, but in large universities, of the university as a whole ...

And it seemed to me that if robu has a choice (and, as you point out, he may not!), the GMAT might show him in a stronger light. I am quite certain, having taken BOTH tests, that the GMAT's math is a considerably more rigorous math test than the GRE. I've never taken the GRE Advanced Math test, and so I cannot comment about it.

Robu: I apologize for not qualifying my statement with "if the school(s) you are interested in accept the GMAT." My advice stands. IF you are allowed to take the GMAT instead of the GRE, it might be to your advantage to do so.

John

[Nibor6000]

Sounds logical to me!

[<3Brains]

Hi Robu,

First I agree with Nibor, your Verbal score is not bad at all, and your Quant won't get any better.

Nibor's comments also reminded me that there is MUCH controversy around the AW score---so much so that even top political science or English literature etc., where writing is all-important---even those programs DO NOT generally put a lot of emphasis on the AW score.

Finally, you got an 800 GRE Quant. You probably know, but you may not know, that a full 4 percent of GRE takers get an 800 Quant score.

In other words, the 800 means you are GOOD in math, but the GRE quantitative test cannot discriminate if you are good, or very good, or excellent, or Einstein.

SO, if your math is REALLY superior, you might have a better shot at a top school by taking the GMAT. The Verbal in the GMAT is a little bit easier than the GRE Verbal; and the GMAT math is quite a bit more difficult than the GRE.

In other words, you could show yourself in the very best light possible. Just a thought.

The GMAT costs a lot: $250. But for a person with skills just as I perceive yours to be, i.e., Verbal, good, Quantitative, superior---the GMAT might be a better test.

You're right: the GRE doesn't distinguish good from better when it comes to math. In fact, last fall Q800 was a 94th percentile....so that's 6%, not 4%, that get an 800. I don't know about GMAT versus GRE and what schools/depts accept what, but I do know that what I've heard about GRE scores in quant programs (being an engineering applicant myself) is that Verbal actually matters more. Most people applying to quant programs have perfect or nearly perfect quant GRE scores, but good verbal scores are mich more rare (last fall V720 = 98th percentile!). Thus a good verbal score can go a long way.

Also....as far as letting the schools know how top-notch your math skills are, if you're applying for strictly math programs (which may not accept GMAT) as well as mathematical finance (which, yeah, probably would want GMAT), you'll probably want to take the GRE Math Subject test...which is orders of magnitude more difficult than GRE Quant. It covers things you actually learn as a math major, and is a difficult test.

One last thing. Most of the programs I applied to said my GRE score had to be from the past 5 years. If that's true for your programs too, you'd have to take it again anyway. Check the admissions pages for schools you want to apply to

Best of luck!

[DrFaustus666]

You're right: the GRE doesn't distinguish good from better when it comes to math. In fact, last fall Q800 was a 94th percentile....so that's 6%, not 4%, that get an 800. I don't know about GMAT versus GRE and what schools/depts accept what, but I do know that what I've heard about GRE scores in quant programs (being an engineering applicant myself) is that Verbal actually matters more. Most people applying to quant programs have perfect or nearly perfect quant GRE scores, but good verbal scores are mich more rare (last fall V720 = 98th percentile!). Thus a good verbal score can go a long way.

Also....as far as letting the schools know how top-notch your math skills are, if you're applying for strictly math programs (which may not accept GMAT) as well as mathematical finance (which, yeah, probably would want GMAT), you'll probably want to take the GRE Math Subject test...which is orders of magnitude more difficult than GRE Quant. It covers things you actually learn as a math major, and is a difficult test.

One last thing. Most of the programs I applied to said my GRE score had to be from the past 5 years. If that's true for your programs too, you'd have to take it again anyway. Check the admissions pages for schools you want to apply to

Best of luck!

Hi ThreeBrains,

My 800-is-96th percentile came from ETS, specifically from the POWERPREP program, which has statistics from 2003 or 2004, I think. They do state that the percentile rankings of a given absolute score vary slightly from year to year.

In this case, it means the Quantitative Exam has become even more competitive.

Also, I checked out ETS' score-comparison software, which is supposed to give an equivalent GMAT vs GRE score. And indeed, assuming that software is correct, the verbal portion of the GMAT DOES weigh more heavily on one's final score than the verbal portion. EXCEPT that a very high verbal score does not offset a very poor quantitative score much. In other words, it appears that the GMAT puts heavy weight on both, though it puts more emphasis on verbal than quantitative.

In short, somebody who wants to get into a very highly ranked, heavily quantitatively oriented program ought to take the Advanced Mathematics test, as you imply.

Thanks for the insight!

John

[hahahut]

You better check the schools you want to apply. Some schools explain explicitly how they measure the score validity. As far as my school research goes, schools require the GRE score to be valid by the application deadline. Most schools have deadlines in mid Dec till mid Jan for PhD. Since yours would be valid until June 2011, I think it is good enough.