How does a B in a Calculus course look?

[DrGonzzo]

I finished my B.A. in political science from a small liberal arts school several years ago and I am currently working as the Chief of Staff for a state legislator. As I am getting ready to apply to PhD programs this fall, I wanted to bolster my math background due my transcript only showing a basic methods class and an intro stats course. I enrolled in an online calculus course at a University of California school, but after a couple weeks, I realized that working 55+ hour weeks left little time to study so I ended up with a B. I was wondering if it is even worth submitting or not? I would be submitting it as a separate transcript only showing the Calculus course with a B. My actual GPA is 3.93.

For more information, I also have experience using statistical analysis from my undergrad thesis, and I use R at work regularly, not to mention all the quantitative research I have done for my legislator. Right now my target schools are George Washington, Brown, University of Maryland, and Rice. I am already in ongoing discussions with faculty at those programs.

Any opinions are welcomed and appreciated.

[Artifex_Archer]

It depends on your subfield. Based on the rest of your post, I'm going to assume that you're interested in American Politics and/or Methods, since those are generally the most quant-heavy of the subfields. Please do correct me/elaborate if I'm mistaken.

At the outset, I will say that a 3.93 is quite good, especially if you have great LoRs, a good fit with the faculty at your target schools, and a solid SoP/CV. I'm a bit confused, however, as to whether that 3.93 GPA includes the B in Calculus, or excludes it. I'm guessing it excludes it based on your phrasing. A strong GRE quant will also help tremendously. In any case, electing to take a calculus course that you didn't have to take speaks very well of you. This is only my opinion, and others may view it differently, but if I were on an adcomm, that fact alone would stand out to me. If I saw that, coupled with a very high quant score, great letters, a great statement, etc., I'd consider you quite competitive. 

Finally: you say that you're in ongoing discussions with faculty at all of your target programs. This is awesome. Since you've already established a rapport, there are zero things wrong with asking those faculty members what they think about including the calculus course in your file. The 'trick' [which is not really a trick] is to make sure it's phrased, not as a 'can you help me get into your program?' question, but a 'I'd like your advice as to whether this is valuable information to include in my application' sort of question. 

 

Sending you really good thoughts as you enter into the fall phase of your PhD apps! It sounds like you're on a great timeline, if that helps. Come back often with questions—if that helps [although sometimes, GradCafe feels like the WebMD of academia...] 

[DrGonzzo]

12 hours ago, Artifex_Archer said:

It depends on your subfield. Based on the rest of your post, I'm going to assume that you're interested in American Politics and/or Methods, since those are generally the most quant-heavy of the subfields. Please do correct me/elaborate if I'm mistaken.

At the outset, I will say that a 3.93 is quite good, especially if you have great LoRs, a good fit with the faculty at your target schools, and a solid SoP/CV. I'm a bit confused, however, as to whether that 3.93 GPA includes the B in Calculus, or excludes it. I'm guessing it excludes it based on your phrasing. A strong GRE quant will also help tremendously. In any case, electing to take a calculus course that you didn't have to take speaks very well of you. This is only my opinion, and others may view it differently, but if I were on an adcomm, that fact alone would stand out to me. If I saw that, coupled with a very high quant score, great letters, a great statement, etc., I'd consider you quite competitive. 

Finally: you say that you're in ongoing discussions with faculty at all of your target programs. This is awesome. Since you've already established a rapport, there are zero things wrong with asking those faculty members what they think about including the calculus course in your file. The 'trick' [which is not really a trick] is to make sure it's phrased, not as a 'can you help me get into your program?' question, but a 'I'd like your advice as to whether this is valuable information to include in my application' sort of question. 

 

Sending you really good thoughts as you enter into the fall phase of your PhD apps! It sounds like you're on a great timeline, if that helps. Come back often with questions—if that helps [although sometimes, GradCafe feels like the WebMD of academia...] 

Thanks for the reply and the information. To help clarify, I am focusing on American Politics, specifically state and local politics. The 3.93 GPA excludes the B in Calculus. I am scheduled to take the GRE relatively soon, aiming for 165+ in both verbal and quant, but we'll see how I do.

I have asked a couple of schools about the quantitative background they look for in candidates and I was told that simply having experience using methods of statistical analysis puts you ahead of the majority of applicants. That seems surprising to me.

I appreciate all your help. I just feel like I am in sort of a dilemma lol. I know enough calculus to differentiate, integrate, and understand the notation used in higher statistics work, but I am not sure how to signal that on my application without bringing attention to the B. 

[uncle_socks]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:57 PM, DrGonzzo said:

I finished my B.A. in political science from a small liberal arts school several years ago and I am currently working as the Chief of Staff for a state legislator. As I am getting ready to apply to PhD programs this fall, I wanted to bolster my math background due my transcript only showing a basic methods class and an intro stats course. I enrolled in an online calculus course at a University of California school, but after a couple weeks, I realized that working 55+ hour weeks left little time to study so I ended up with a B. I was wondering if it is even worth submitting or not? I would be submitting it as a separate transcript only showing the Calculus course with a B. My actual GPA is 3.93.

For more information, I also have experience using statistical analysis from my undergrad thesis, and I use R at work regularly, not to mention all the quantitative research I have done for my legislator. Right now my target schools are George Washington, Brown, University of Maryland, and Rice. I am already in ongoing discussions with faculty at those programs.

Any opinions are welcomed and appreciated.

For your list of target schools, a B in calc is fine even if it were on your normal transcript. Most -places only ask for your transcript for places that you've had full time enrollment for 1+ semester or 1+ years, so it's very likely you wouldn't be obligated to send that in in the first place. I don't think there really is a value-added for sending the transcript vs. just putting in your SOP "I took a calc class at UC online + did all this stats analysis for my thesis" or whatever. 

Really the only places a B in calc will hurt you are programs with really intense methods sequences where most admits probably have prior calc experience (think: polecon programs, NYU, Stanford, maybe MIT). And even then, if you're applying to these places, just mention the online course and don't disclose the grade. 

That being said, if you're scoring in the 160+ range in both verbal and quant, I highly encourage you to apply to schools ranked above your target schools (and by this I mean every top school with a good fit).  You don't need to have connections with faculty to get accepted into top schools, unlike some fields like biology. I certainly know most students in the very top programs did not have ongoing conversations with faculty at their current programs. A 3.93/330+/good recs/good SOP will get you seriously considered at every program in the country. 

Edited August 2, 2020 by BunniesInSpace

[DrGonzzo]

5 hours ago, BunniesInSpace said:

For your list of target schools, a B in calc is fine even if it were on your normal transcript. Most -places only ask for your transcript for places that you've had full time enrollment for 1+ semester or 1+ years, so it's very likely you wouldn't be obligated to send that in in the first place. I don't think there really is a value-added for sending the transcript vs. just putting in your SOP "I took a calc class at UC online + did all this stats analysis for my thesis" or whatever. 

Really the only places a B in calc will hurt you are programs with really intense methods sequences where most admits probably have prior calc experience (think: polecon programs, NYU, Stanford, maybe MIT). And even then, if you're applying to these places, just mention the online course and don't disclose the grade. 

That being said, if you're scoring in the 160+ range in both verbal and quant, I highly encourage you to apply to schools ranked above your target schools (and by this I mean every top school with a good fit).  You don't need to have connections with faculty to get accepted into top schools, unlike some fields like biology. I certainly know most students in the very top programs did not have ongoing conversations with faculty at their current programs. A 3.93/330+/good recs/good SOP will get you seriously considered at every program in the country. 

Thanks for the response, it is much appreciated. I have been trying to build a selection of schools based on the books and articles that interest me the most so my selection of schools are all vastly different in rank. I will look into more top programs, though. I am sure those programs have the resources to make most applicants a good fit.

[uncle_socks]

1 hour ago, DrGonzzo said:

Thanks for the response, it is much appreciated. I have been trying to build a selection of schools based on the books and articles that interest me the most so my selection of schools are all vastly different in rank. I will look into more top programs, though. I am sure those programs have the resources to make most applicants a good fit.

The (unfortunate) nature of polisci outcomes is that it matters a lot less who you work with as opposed to where you went to school. Coming from an Americanist, "fit" matters a lot less in our subfield than it does in other subfields: a faculty who does congress can probably  still help a lot with research on local politics, while a faculty who does France probably has less to offer with China research. Not to mention most top schools have someone who has done some work on local politics anyways. Try to find younger faculty who do research in the space that you'd like to work in, and see where they went to school. Ideally, you want to go to those schools.