Regional vs Ranked

[Let'sGetMetaPhysical]

I am interested in Renaissance Lit and I've been primarily considering these schools because of how close they are to me and financial aid offered:

UT-Knoxville

Vanderbilt

MTSU

UNC-Chapel Hill

Duke

UNC-Greensboro

Mississippi

WUSTL

Georgia

Georgia State

Alabama

Auburn

Kentucky

Louisville

I'm unsure if I could get into any of these. The University of Memphis is my backup plan, but I'm not sure that their program can help me in the field I want to study. I was thinking about maybe narrowing this list down and then adding a few dream schools like Berkeley, Notre Dame, the Ivies and Psuedo-Ivies. Any input would be appreciated.

[boo]

No school is guarenteed. A good list is 1 or 2 dream schools, alot of reasonable ones like you listed then maybe 1 or 2 more likely schools.

[wordslinger]

Well, just FYI, Louisville only offers a Rhet/Comp PhD. Or are you looking for MA programs?

Good luck in narrowing down your schools and starting the process!

[Let'sGetMetaPhysical]

Rhetoric is an option I used to be really interested in, though I'm not particularly interested in Rhetoric now. My advisor told me that it's possible to get an MA in Lit from one school and get into the PhD program somewhere else but not all schools will accept those MA credits towards the PhD. :/

[Let'sGetMetaPhysical]

No school is guarenteed. A good list is 1 or 2 dream schools, alot of reasonable ones like you listed then maybe 1 or 2 more likely schools.

Any school is a dream school for me at the moment. I began my undergraduate career as Pre-Med, and after 2 years of destroying my GPA I changed my major to English. The good thing is I was already minoring in it! I was thinking about narrowing down the school list to 12 or less. Should I lower that number?

[Pamphilia]

Well, you do have a couple of well-ranked and hyper-competitive programs on your list already, like Duke and UNC-CH, not to mention WUSTL and Vandy. There's nothing wrong with sticking with a certain region for your own reasons, and you've got a decent mix of "rankings" in there. I'd just caution you against applying to programs ONLY because they're in a particular region. Do be careful about where you're applying; make sure the programs are good for you and you'd be good for them (in terms of faculty, research interest, among other things). Fit is really key for admission, I'm realizing more and more. Make sure you do your research on your programs thoroughly, whether or not you need to stick in one region.

Edited to clarify: what I mean to say is that it's fine to take location into account, but don't apply to University X just because it is in a certain area. Apply to it because it's in a certain area AND because it's a good fit for you.

Oh, and re: number of applications. If you can afford the money and time, apply as widely as you want. I applied to 12. This horrifies some people, but it was a good number for me, I think, though any more than that would have been unmanageable and probably would have diminished the quality of all my apps. I think 10-12 is a decent number if you have the means. Still, remember that no one here knows you well enough to be able to tell you what's a good number for you, and be wary of those who try. You need to figure out yourself what you can manage.

[Let'sGetMetaPhysical]

The only way I will able to affort to pursue graduate study is with assistance from the university, so I'm looking for the best Renaissance programs that I stand even a tiny chance at getting into, and then narrowing that list down in terms of financial aid offered, more specific fields of research, professors, and everything else in the world. Ultimately, region is not the deciding factor. I just feel that being somewhat close to home would help me stay motivated and focused, so I would consider attending somewhere in my region if that turns out to be an option.

[strokeofmidnight]

The only way I will able to affort to pursue graduate study is with assistance from the university, so I'm looking for the best Renaissance programs that I stand even a tiny chance at getting into, and then narrowing that list down in terms of financial aid offered, more specific fields of research, professors, and everything else in the world. Ultimately, region is not the deciding factor. I just feel that being somewhat close to home would help me stay motivated and focused, so I would consider attending somewhere in my region if that turns out to be an option.

I want to reiterate pamphilia's very sound advice. Most graduate programs--particularly the strong ones--will give you assistance. (and virtually every graduate student that I know of is in your boat--we live off our stipends, and wouldn't have been able to attend otherwise). However, it's somewhat backwards to apply to every program and hope that you'll get in somewhere. Programs are discerning, and in addition to the overall "strength" of the application (largely based on the writing sample and SoP), they select for "fit." Unless you have a sense of what you want to study and can articulate at least the beginnings of a compelling, thoughtful project that's rooted in a scholarly conversation, you won't be able to present yourself as EITHER a strong candidate OR as a good fit for the program. This mentality, I suspect, is what contributes to why many brights students get in nowhere, even when they apply everywhere, including to programs that they think are so lowly ranked that they're sure to get in. (A friend was one of those--rejected across the board from programs that probably ranked lower most on your current list his first round. He figured out what he wanted to do, sharpened his research interests, read up on the scholarship, wrote a damn good paper...reapplied and is now at Berkeley).

Think through your research interests and motivations first. Why academia to begin with (while too broad for an SoP, this may be a good question to think through, especially many of the programs on your have highly questionable placement rates and as I'm sure you know, the job market is horrific even for very strong programs that traditionally place very well). What topics in the Renaissance do you find compelling? Why? What can you connect them to? What current scholarship in your field helps to situate your work? What professors in the various programs can help to facilitate your research?

Figure out what sort of candidate you are, what you're interested in, what approaches you adopt, what critical issues you're drawn too...etc, etc. This isn't simply an optional way of researching schools. It's absolutely and utterly essential to presenting oneself as a candidate (and actually acquiring the skills) that will get into funded graduate programs. Even "less competitive" programs will have plenty of competition. (We're talking perhaps a hundred applicants for 10 spots, rather than...oh, say, 700 for 10. It's still pretty damn competitive).

Edited May 11, 2010 by strokeofmidnight

[foppery]

I want to reiterate pamphilia's very sound advice. Most graduate programs--particularly the strong ones--will give you assistance. (and virtually every graduate student that I know of is in your boat--we live off our stipends, and wouldn't have been able to attend otherwise). However, it's somewhat backwards to apply to every program and hope that you'll get in somewhere. Programs are discerning, and in addition to the overall "strength" of the application (largely based on the writing sample and SoP), they select for "fit." Unless you have a sense of what you want to study and can articulate at least the beginnings of a compelling, thoughtful project that's rooted in a scholarly conversation, you won't be able to present yourself as EITHER a strong candidate OR as a good fit for the program. This mentality, I suspect, is what contributes to why many brights students get in nowhere, even when they apply everywhere, including to programs that they think are so lowly ranked that they're sure to get in. (A friend was one of those--rejected across the board from programs that probably ranked lower most on your current list his first round. He figured out what he wanted to do, sharpened his research interests, read up on the scholarship, wrote a damn good paper...reapplied and is now at Berkeley).

Think through your research interests and motivations first. Why academia to begin with (while too broad for an SoP, this may be a good question to think through, especially many of the programs on your have highly questionable placement rates and as I'm sure you know, the job market is horrific even for very strong programs that traditionally place very well). What topics in the Renaissance do you find compelling? Why? What can you connect them to? What current scholarship in your field helps to situate your work? What professors in the various programs can help to facilitate your research?

Figure out what sort of candidate you are, what you're interested in, what approaches you adopt, what critical issues you're drawn too...etc, etc. This isn't simply an optional way of researching schools. It's absolutely and utterly essential to presenting oneself as a candidate (and actually acquiring the skills) that will get into funded graduate programs. Even "less competitive" programs will have plenty of competition. (We're talking perhaps a hundred applicants for 10 spots, rather than...oh, say, 700 for 10. It's still pretty damn competitive).

Pamphilia and strokeofmidnight are right on, as always. You seem to have chosen your schools at random, based entirely on location. It's good to have some reach schools and some safety schools, but the gap between Duke/UNC-CH and MTSU (does it even have a PhD program?) is immense. And if you're unsure if you could get into ANY of them, you need to do more research on what they're looking for in a candidate, because I suspect they have wildly different admission criteria. Do you even know how good the Renaissance program is at each of them? Or what you want to do with your PhD after you graduate? Because, as SOM points out, some of the schools you're considering won't get you very far in a search for a good tenure-track job.

Personally, I think a list of 12 schools is too long. I applied to six, because I was a senior in college with no money and no time, but that was a good number: I got into three. I think between five and 10 is ideal; any more, and you probably haven't narrowed down your list to find departments that are good fits for your work. And who has $1200 to blow on applications to grad school? Choose a few reach schools, a few schools you think you can get into, and one or two safeties--though I question the idea that anyone applying to grad school should have "safety schools" that they aren't terribly excited about.

[Let'sGetMetaPhysical]

I've written a few papers that have potential to be developed as my writing samples and I haven't taken capstone yet, so developing my best works and refining my statement of purpose is something that I will definitely be doing my last 1 1/2 - 2 years as an undergrad. I feel like it's far better to start as early as I can on this. I don't want to tailor myself too much (Renaissance self-fashioning anybody? lol) but at the same time what it feels like is that getting into grad school is more about how well you develop as an English major and how focused you are concering future fields of study at any of the institutions that you could be attending-trying to paraphrase your comment midnight.

I'm trying to gain some understanding of the best way to go about the application process and I really appreciate the advice!

I've slimmed that original list down to 8 schools. Not all of them offer aid for the first year,(Georgia St, Chapel Hill, Greensboro) A few you go straight into the PhD and earn the MA on the way (Vanderbilt and Chapel Hill)

UT-Knox

Alabama

Arkansas

MTSU

Georgia St

Greensboro

Vanderbilt

Chapel Hill

I'm going to look at smaller schools as well as other schools and maybe get in touch with someone on campus to answer any questions about admissions or the program. The best I can do is to present myself well enough to those 10-12 schools I feel the best about, though the decision whether or not I'm a good fit is up to them ?

[Let'sGetMetaPhysical]

Pamphilia and strokeofmidnight are right on, as always. You seem to have chosen your schools at random, based entirely on location. It's good to have some reach schools and some safety schools, but the gap between Duke/UNC-CH and MTSU (does it even have a PhD program?) is immense. And if you're unsure if you could get into ANY of them, you need to do more research on what they're looking for in a candidate, because I suspect they have wildly different admission criteria. Do you even know how good the Renaissance program is at each of them? Or what you want to do with your PhD after you graduate? Because, as SOM points out, some of the schools you're considering won't get you very far in a search for a good tenure-track job.

Personally, I think a list of 12 schools is too long. I applied to six, because I was a senior in college with no money and no time, but that was a good number: I got into three. I think between five and 10 is ideal; any more, and you probably haven't narrowed down your list to find departments that are good fits for your work. And who has $1200 to blow on applications to grad school? Choose a few reach schools, a few schools you think you can get into, and one or two safeties--though I question the idea that anyone applying to grad school should have "safety schools" that they aren't terribly excited about.

I'm just starting to prepare for the process and I'm sure that it will be a long and bumpy road these next few years. I have a few "fallbacks" that I'm not terribly excited about (Memphis, Murray State, University of Central Arkansas to name a few) but these are the ones that I have looked at in the region. I plan on expanding outwards and looking at universities that I may not have thought about yet. I'm trying to take that big dream and beat it down to something more comprehensible, so I can know the options and what's best for me.

[foppery]

I'm just starting to prepare for the process and I'm sure that it will be a long and bumpy road these next few years. I have a few "fallbacks" that I'm not terribly excited about (Memphis, Murray State, University of Central Arkansas to name a few) but these are the ones that I have looked at in the region. I plan on expanding outwards and looking at universities that I may not have thought about yet. I'm trying to take that big dream and beat it down to something more comprehensible, so I can know the options and what's best for me.

Best of luck! Sorry if my post came off as pedantic; I didn't mean it that way. I just feel strongly that people should know as much as possible about programs before applying to them. Learn from my own errors...

[foppery]

Best of luck! Sorry if my post came off as pedantic; I didn't mean it that way. I just feel strongly that people should know as much as possible about programs before applying to them. Learn from my own errors...

Also, I'm at UNC now, and I can assure you that most PhD students (though, sadly, not all) get funded for the first year.

[diehtc0ke]

I'm going to look at smaller schools as well as other schools and maybe get in touch with someone on campus to answer any questions about admissions or the program. The best I can do is to present myself well enough to those 10-12 schools I feel the best about, though the decision whether or not I'm a good fit is up to them :/

If you still have all that time in undergrad, quite honestly, I wouldn't be as worried about the grad school process as you are now. In those 1-1/2 to 2 years, you might decide to change your specialty which, even with regional restrictions, could change your list of potential programs drastically. Furthermore, this approach that I've excerpted might not be the most fruitful. From what I gather, adcoms are pretty lazy and don't want to have to find the fit between you and their program; they want that fit to be blatantly obvious. Though foppery may disagree with the effectiveness of this exercise (lol), a lot of successful applicants took the time out to point out specific scholars in their statements of purpose and discuss why the research of those academics was so compelling for their own critical trajectory. These "fit paragraphs" go beyond mere presentation and insert an applicant into the conversations that are already going on at Universities X, Y and Z. Plenty of applicants are going to present themselves well and if you're just generally a good student, it's going to be difficult to warrant taking you on as a student.

I'm going to be even more honest and say that I didn't read all of the responses in this thread but it can't hurt to reiterate that if you are serious about going into a PhD program in Renaissance lit, find the Renaissance scholars at these schools and look up their articles, books, etc. See where/how their research aligns with your interests. That's where you're going to find whether the fit is there.

[Riotbeard]

I would add that on the fit paragraph (I applied to Amer studies and history, but I am going to a history program next year...), I did my best to name 3 people in the department (a few schools where my fit was bleh, I could only find 2...) and why their focus/research would improve the direction for myself set out in the rest of the SOP. Like the previous poster said, this will tell them in 3 to 4 sentances why you think you should be at their program. I would definately look at the faculty interests before you decide to apply anywhere, and I might also tread softly about picking schools for a while because your focus may change (mine did drastically during my junior year) and those options may no longer be relevant. That being said, I think being aware of Grad school at this point is fantastic. It is never to early to start crafting your application/cv, and making the right decision early on to make you the strongest applicant. My first go round, I realy did not know what I was doing and my lack of acceptances evidenced that.

[Let'sGetMetaPhysical]

I was going to look at some different works by profs to get an idea of what their research looks like. I'll be taking classes this summer and not doing much of anything else so this could be a good opportunity to catch up on reading articles. I also have a good chance at completing a Spanish major as long as class scheduling allows it, but I'm not sure how beneficial that would be for Renaissance. My school doesn't offer Latin or Italian though.

[Pamphilia]

I was going to look at some different works by profs to get an idea of what their research looks like. I'll be taking classes this summer and not doing much of anything else so this could be a good opportunity to catch up on reading articles. I also have a good chance at completing a Spanish major as long as class scheduling allows it, but I'm not sure how beneficial that would be for Renaissance. My school doesn't offer Latin or Italian though.

Spanish can be actually be extremely helpful, depending on what your focus in RN is. I'd really recommend looking into Latin classes elsewhere if your program doesn't offer any (Italian and French would also be great). I'm in RN as well and was told by more than one DGS that the fact that I was already working on Latin was very positive for my applications.

Re: reading articles. When you're doing any kind of scholarly reading or research, take note of the scholars you find appealing, engaging, provoking, and so forth, and look up where they teach. I ended up applying to most of the programs I did because they are home to scholars whose work I admired as an undergrad.

[Let'sGetMetaPhysical]

Also, I'm at UNC now, and I can assure you that most PhD students (though, sadly, not all) get funded for the first year.

That's great! My advisor is from Chapel Hill and we haven't talked about CH specifically just schools in general. He's the prof that taught 16th and 17th Century Lit and got me interested in the literature from these times. He really emphasized that the job market sucks and nothing is gauranteed.

[soxpuppet]

That's great! My advisor is from Chapel Hill and we haven't talked about CH specifically just schools in general. He's the prof that taught 16th and 17th Century Lit and got me interested in the literature from these times. He really emphasized that the job market sucks and nothing is gauranteed.

Ah! If you're at CH that's an AWESOME place for Renaissance! If your advisor is who I think, my advice to you is to continue consulting him, but in the meantime, your efforts should really be focused on your classes, your writing, your research - finding opportunities to develop your scholarship. Good luck!

[Let'sGetMetaPhysical]

Spanish can be actually be extremely helpful, depending on what your focus in RN is. I'd really recommend looking into Latin classes elsewhere if your program doesn't offer any (Italian and French would also be great). I'm in RN as well and was told by more than one DGS that the fact that I was already working on Latin was very positive for my applications.

Re: reading articles. When you're doing any kind of scholarly reading or research, take note of the scholars you find appealing, engaging, provoking, and so forth, and look up where they teach. I ended up applying to most of the programs I did because they are home to scholars whose work I admired as an undergrad.

Update: My overall GPA is a 3.2989 (*sigh* chemistry and math) and 3.84 for all English classes. I was minoring in History before I thought about picking up that Spanish major, but I could just get a Proficiency Certificate and allow myself some room for Philosophy, French, and more English! I could also take some courses in Latin next summer if I didn't have to complete a languange immersion (travel-study), which is required of most foreign language majors at my school. Is it better to diversify in this case?

[Riotbeard]

Update: My overall GPA is a 3.2989 (*sigh* chemistry and math) and 3.84 for all English classes. I was minoring in History before I thought about picking up that Spanish major, but I could just get a Proficiency Certificate and allow myself some room for Philosophy, French, and more English! I could also take some courses in Latin next summer if I didn't have to complete a languange immersion (travel-study), which is required of most foreign language majors at my school. Is it better to diversify in this case?

I would say you are better off mastering at least one language than having a little bit of skill in a lot of different languages, but if get proficient at Spanish, the more you know and are able to start another language, the better.

[foppery]

<br style="text-shadow: none;">I would say you are better off mastering at least one language than having a little bit of skill in a lot of different languages, but if get proficient at Spanish, the more you know and are able to start another language, the better.<br style="text-shadow: none;">

<br style="text-shadow: none;"><br style="text-shadow: none;">I'm not sure history and English depts have the same language requirements. For admission, in my experience, it's better to have a basic reading knowledge of several languages than a professor-level knowledge of Spanish.<br style="text-shadow: none;">

[Riotbeard]

<br style="text-shadow: none;"><br style="text-shadow: none;">I'm not sure history and English depts have the same language requirements. For admission, in my experience, it's better to have a basic reading knowledge of several languages than a professor-level knowledge of Spanish.<br style="text-shadow: none;">

To me reading level is mastering (or at least for non linguistic academic purposes). I would imagine it's pretty similar. I applied to American studies and history and there was no significant difference. From talking to English prof friends, I never got the impression there was a significant difference though. I just suck so much at foreign language that mastering for me meant finally being able to translate well.

[xseoer]

Language usually been compared to tool.

The more , the better.