Ask Any Questions - Current CMU Heinz Student

[woolscarves]

On 3/1/2021 at 1:14 AM, MPP_2021 said:

How manageable is the second-year workload? With a 30 hr fellowship and evening classes, have you heard any concerns about competing priorities or too heavy of a workload?

Are there any negatives to the structured second-year curriculum? The schedule doesn’t allow for the breadth of electives offered at the main campus.

Have you heard any feedback, both positive or negative, about the DC track?

It's manageable. Your courses definitely don't expect the same amount from you as they do from the courses in Pittsburgh, because they know everyone is working very nearly full-time. It's definitely not an "easy" year, but my friends in the program were the people that knew they wanted to be in DC so getting to move there a year early and start that was a huge advantage. They also liked making more $ during the school year, although I wouldn't say that should be a primary reason.

In terms of the second question, you're exactly right. The curriculum is much more rigid due to fewer faculty in DC. That's been changed this year with all classes optionally virtual, so DC students have a bit more flexibility, but I wouldn't count on that staying of course.

I think the feedback is generally reasonably positive, the negative comes from the fact that finding a fellowship may be a bit tougher than they imagined. It takes effort and proactivity to secure one. Everyone gets one, it's just not as easy as most people anticipated. The program can and will help facilitate, but it's not like it's a capstone project where you're assigned something no matter what and you get to state some preferences for what it is. It's much more like applying for a job or internship and the program's extensive connections can help with that.

So, overall it's a good program and gets people to DC for a year in a way that's often much more cost-effective than doing a whole masters there, but definitely involves a bit of work and stress.

[MPP_2021]

11 hours ago, woolscarves said:

It's manageable. Your courses definitely don't expect the same amount from you as they do from the courses in Pittsburgh, because they know everyone is working very nearly full-time. It's definitely not an "easy" year, but my friends in the program were the people that knew they wanted to be in DC so getting to move there a year early and start that was a huge advantage. They also liked making more $ during the school year, although I wouldn't say that should be a primary reason.

In terms of the second question, you're exactly right. The curriculum is much more rigid due to fewer faculty in DC. That's been changed this year with all classes optionally virtual, so DC students have a bit more flexibility, but I wouldn't count on that staying of course.

I think the feedback is generally reasonably positive, the negative comes from the fact that finding a fellowship may be a bit tougher than they imagined. It takes effort and proactivity to secure one. Everyone gets one, it's just not as easy as most people anticipated. The program can and will help facilitate, but it's not like it's a capstone project where you're assigned something no matter what and you get to state some preferences for what it is. It's much more like applying for a job or internship and the program's extensive connections can help with that.

So, overall it's a good program and gets people to DC for a year in a way that's often much more cost-effective than doing a whole masters there, but definitely involves a bit of work and stress.

Thank you very much. This is all really helpful.

[MPPJV]

Hey, I am currently a Senior graduating this sememster and Applied to Heinz for the MSPPM DC track this cycle. I have multiple past internship experiences with non-profits and Local government (In total about 1 year of combined internship experience). Additionally I have a 3.8 GPA, 154 Verbal and 151 Quant scores on the GRE (GRE seemed to still be reccomended when submitting an application this cycle). I know this is a vauge overview (doesn't include other aspects of my application) and you may still be uncertain, but do you feel that these metrics are good enough to obtain admission into Heinz? Thanks! I love the overall feel of this program, just wondering if my experinece level was frowned upon. 

[Seren]

On 2/11/2021 at 11:41 AM, woolscarves said:

2nd year student in the MSPPM-DA program but have friends in most of the other programs. I found this forum super helpful when I was looking for schools so happy to answer any questions that people have. I was also lucky enough to get to spend the first 1.5 semesters in the in-person environment, so I can also speak to what the experience will hopefully be like for the class of 2021 when you enter in the fall.

Thank you for all the helpful info! Could you please talk a little bit about the background check at the beginning? What's the process? Thanks!

[woolscarves]

On 3/4/2021 at 10:50 AM, MPPJV said:

Hey, I am currently a Senior graduating this sememster and Applied to Heinz for the MSPPM DC track this cycle. I have multiple past internship experiences with non-profits and Local government (In total about 1 year of combined internship experience). Additionally I have a 3.8 GPA, 154 Verbal and 151 Quant scores on the GRE (GRE seemed to still be reccomended when submitting an application this cycle). I know this is a vauge overview (doesn't include other aspects of my application) and you may still be uncertain, but do you feel that these metrics are good enough to obtain admission into Heinz? Thanks! I love the overall feel of this program, just wondering if my experinece level was frowned upon. 

I don't have a lot of exposure to the application process for the DC track, but I'm pretty sure there's an interview component. From what I can gather, I think they like people who are mature/experienced. I know people that came in close to straight out of undergrad, but in the interview I would emphasize how your internships make you ready to be ready for a fellowship and that you're a person that the program can trust to represent it in the government community in DC. I know that's a bit vague, but that's the best I've got. Good luck!

 

13 hours ago, Seren said:

Thank you for all the helpful info! Could you please talk a little bit about the background check at the beginning? What's the process? Thanks!

Don't know a lot, they use an external company to validate the information you've provided. You need to provide contacts for your jobs/institutions. Not positive if they actually end up contacting each of them or not, but it's definitely a requirement that you provide it all.

[cyeager]

What is the workload like for the MSPPM-DA program? It seems like it's a fair amount more than other grad schools that I've seen that seem to be more like 2-3 courses a semester as opposed to the 4-5 courses at Heinz. Is there still able to be a decent classwork/job/social life balance with that amount of work?

[woolscarves]

1 hour ago, cyeager said:

What is the workload like for the MSPPM-DA program? It seems like it's a fair amount more than other grad schools that I've seen that seem to be more like 2-3 courses a semester as opposed to the 4-5 courses at Heinz. Is there still able to be a decent classwork/job/social life balance with that amount of work?

Caveat: obviously I haven't attended any other MPP program, so I can only speak to my own experience and the vibe that we get.

I think the DA program is much more involved than most MPP programs. I have time for my classes and one 10-15 hour/week internship/job/TAship. I was in one extracurricular for part of my first year but dropped it about halfway through my second semester. It was a big change for me from undergrad where I spent only 15-20 hours/week on class and spent upwards of 30 hours/week on ECs and a job.

CMU in general has an attitude as a university of being pretty high-stress and high-workload. My classmates and I definitely feel stressed-out and burned-out pretty frequently.

However, I will say that it's doable and there are obviously benefits to it. I feel like I'm learning much more relevant and useful skills at a higher level than I would at most policy schools, so for me it's worth it. I'll also say that the stress has felt particularly exacerbated by the pandemic. Heinz had a monthly happy hour, we would host parties, and there were plenty of interesting talks we could go to at lunch on campus. Removing those means the entire focus of the Heinz experience is on the classes which are the stressors, which heightens the sense of feeling overwhelmed.

I'm sure every grad student feels like their program is one of the most intense, but I would be pretty shocked if more than a couple policy programs were comparable to the DA program at Heinz.

It's absolutely a doable program and one that I've had a fantastic experience with, but it's also one that's forced me to prioritize much more than I expected. I think it's a great option for people that want to go to a public policy program and learn harder skills, but I also know students that want more freedom and a more relaxed grad school experience. This wouldn't be a program that I would recommend to the latter even though it's absolutely a valid attitude to have. Deciding which kind of experience you want to have before you go to grad school is important in my opinion.

[cyeager]

Do you have any sense of the Georgetown MS-DSPP program and how this one compares to it? Also, what is the general culture like within the Heinz school and the people in the MSPPM-DA program?

Edited March 10, 2021 by cyeager

[KBenny305]

How common is it for students to get Research Assistantships? Are students able to work for different departments at Carnegie?

(I was just admitted for the MSPPM-DA track)

[woolscarves]

6 hours ago, cyeager said:

Do you have any sense of the Georgetown MS-DSPP program and how this one compares to it? Also, what is the general culture like within the Heinz school and the people in the MSPPM-DA program?

Nope, it's a pretty new program. From what I gather, the program office doesn't really view it as a competitor currently, likely due to its early-stage nature. @GradSchoolGradhas spoken before (I feel correctly) about how you rarely want to be in a new program because you're a Guinea pig for working out the kinks.

It terms of the culture, I honestly find it really hard to say. First semester was very much each person trying to get their feet under them and adjust to the pace of Heinz. We had some social events and stuff, but it was pretty limited. It felt like the cohort was starting to settle into a nice social dynamic before the pandemic (a lot of us went out to a Mamma Mia themed disco night shortly before COVID hit). The pandemic has really stifled that though, my 4-5 good friends are the ones I still keep in touch with and we work together on projects pretty actively. The process of turning people who I was "friendly with" as opposed to "friends with" got stunted which is naturally disappointing. It's not at all a competitive environment and students like to share code/technical resources frequently.

To summarize, I liked my classmates a lot and it felt like we were on our way to have a good cohort culture after a tough first semester, but virtual schooling has definitely siloed us (as it has with most people around the world).

2 hours ago, KBenny305 said:

How common is it for students to get Research Assistantships? Are students able to work for different departments at Carnegie?

(I was just admitted for the MSPPM-DA track)

I wouldn't say it's common, but it's not extremely rare. A good number of students were RAs this summer (including me, for half of the summer). And yeah, I have some friends that work for the Software Engineering Institute. Most Heinz students work for non-profits, gov agencies, or Heinz departments (including as TAs) during the school year, but some students have managed to work in different areas.

[Saf78]

On 3/8/2021 at 6:11 PM, woolscarves said:

Caveat: obviously I haven't attended any other MPP program, so I can only speak to my own experience and the vibe that we get.

I think the DA program is much more involved than most MPP programs. I have time for my classes and one 10-15 hour/week internship/job/TAship. I was in one extracurricular for part of my first year but dropped it about halfway through my second semester. It was a big change for me from undergrad where I spent only 15-20 hours/week on class and spent upwards of 30 hours/week on ECs and a job.

CMU in general has an attitude as a university of being pretty high-stress and high-workload. My classmates and I definitely feel stressed-out and burned-out pretty frequently.

However, I will say that it's doable and there are obviously benefits to it. I feel like I'm learning much more relevant and useful skills at a higher level than I would at most policy schools, so for me it's worth it. I'll also say that the stress has felt particularly exacerbated by the pandemic. Heinz had a monthly happy hour, we would host parties, and there were plenty of interesting talks we could go to at lunch on campus. Removing those means the entire focus of the Heinz experience is on the classes which are the stressors, which heightens the sense of feeling overwhelmed.

I'm sure every grad student feels like their program is one of the most intense, but I would be pretty shocked if more than a couple policy programs were comparable to the DA program at Heinz.

It's absolutely a doable program and one that I've had a fantastic experience with, but it's also one that's forced me to prioritize much more than I expected. I think it's a great option for people that want to go to a public policy program and learn harder skills, but I also know students that want more freedom and a more relaxed grad school experience. This wouldn't be a program that I would recommend to the latter even though it's absolutely a valid attitude to have. Deciding which kind of experience you want to have before you go to grad school is important in my opinion.

With respect to the amount of units required for the MSPPM-DA, how long are some of the courses (mini or normal) and to what level of proficiency do some of these mini courses prepare you for, regarding future classes or marketable skills?

[woolscarves]

11 hours ago, Saf78 said:

With respect to the amount of units required for the MSPPM-DA, how long are some of the courses (mini or normal) and to what level of proficiency do some of these mini courses prepare you for, regarding future classes or marketable skills?

This is a hot topic among Heinz students! If you go to the handbook and look at the DA curriculum (page 7), you can see the courses. Minis are 6 units, full courses are 12.

In general, I think you're exactly right to be questioning how much expertise you can develop within a mini & a semester. In general, I will say minis are really great for exposing you to a topic and getting to a point of understanding it on a bit more of a surface level. For example, I have friends that took a blockchain fundamentals course that really enjoyed it and understand the role it can play much better now, but are far from the point in which they'd be able to create any sort of meaningful blockchain application. You simply aren't going to get meaningfully proficient in a technical skill in only 8 weeks of 8-15 hours/week classes.

Despite this, I appreciate the mini system because it exposes you to things without having to commit a whole semester to them. After taking minis, you can decide whether you want to invest more time in them or not. Most of my favorite classes have been minis because they get straight to trying to give you the most important knowledge given the short timeframe.

All in all, I think it's important to think about classes at Heinz as layers that you add on to each other. After the completion of my core python course, I didn't feel like a particularly strong programmer, but I've concentrated on technical courses that all use Python, so I've taken courses in Big Data, Unstructured Data, and Data Science for Product Management that all gave me discreet skills in those subject areas, but all used Python. As my time comes to an end here, I do feel like a fairly confident Python programmer in addition to the particular subject-related expertise that you get from the classes.

[seb_]

Hey! Thanks so much for sharing so much information @woolscarves! I have offers for MSPPM-DA and the equivalent degrees at Harris, McCourts and UPenn and I'm tending towards Heinz.

I was wondering whether it is common among first year graduates to live in houses off-campus? After living in my own apartment during my undergrad, I can't really see myself going back to dorms. But I'm wondering whether it would be worth it nonetheless to meet people? Are dorms cheaper than private rents? What is the quality of living in dorms? Where would I have to look for private rents? And how might I find flatmates from Heinz or any other faculty?

Also, are there usually Social Media Groups for offer holders at this point? Would be a good way to find flatmates, wouldn't it?

Thanks in advance!

[woolscarves]

2 hours ago, seb_ said:

Hey! Thanks so much for sharing so much information @woolscarves! I have offers for MSPPM-DA and the equivalent degrees at Harris, McCourts and UPenn and I'm tending towards Heinz.

I was wondering whether it is common among first year graduates to live in houses off-campus? After living in my own apartment during my undergrad, I can't really see myself going back to dorms. But I'm wondering whether it would be worth it nonetheless to meet people? Are dorms cheaper than private rents? What is the quality of living in dorms? Where would I have to look for private rents? And how might I find flatmates from Heinz or any other faculty?

Also, are there usually Social Media Groups for offer holders at this point? Would be a good way to find flatmates, wouldn't it?

Thanks in advance!

I don't know of a single grad student at CMU that has ever lived in the dorms. Everyone lives off campus. Details about where students live, how they find housing, and how they find roommates can be found on the admitted students portal: https://www.heinz.cmu.edu/admitted-students/full-time/housing-survey

[seb_]

Amazing thanks! I just have another question regarding the size of the degree. Do you know how many people are in the MSPPM-DA? Is it small enough that you kind of get to know everyone in the two years? Is it more the spirit of a big family, is it more impersonal, or is it very competitive? (And just out of curiosity, are the other MSPPM tracks bigger/smaller than DA?

And also, I saw that Heinz has like 1,500 postgraduate students. How is the spirit there? 

Thanks in advance!

[woolscarves]

3 hours ago, seb_ said:

Amazing thanks! I just have another question regarding the size of the degree. Do you know how many people are in the MSPPM-DA? Is it small enough that you kind of get to know everyone in the two years? Is it more the spirit of a big family, is it more impersonal, or is it very competitive? (And just out of curiosity, are the other MSPPM tracks bigger/smaller than DA?

And also, I saw that Heinz has like 1,500 postgraduate students. How is the spirit there? 

Thanks in advance!

The DA track is about ~50 students each year nowadays I think. Other MSPPM tracks are of varied sizes. The regular and 3-semester PPM tracks probably combine to be about the same size as the DA track and the DC track is like 15-20 students I think.

I wouldn't call it a "big family," but it's definitely not unfriendly or competitive. I'd say there's a number of 5-10/person groups that are close friends and some clusters are closer to others. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I feel like we were starting to build a better overall cohort 3/4 of the way through our first year but COVID basically stopped that. There's some good overlap between programs too. I had a few friends from the MEIM program, a friend dated a classmate in MAM, one of my roommates is in the healthcare analytics program, etc.

Overall, it's a pretty collegial environment and I've made good friends, but don't get the sense that it's stronger than any other comparable program out there.

[Kaz_KV]

Thank you so much for doing this! 

I'm a recent MSPPM-DA admitted student and I was wondering if you could address the curriculum. My worry is that the program is too management focused (not a real problem, just not what I want) and not enough data science (as opposed to data analytics) / statistics oriented. I took a lot of statistics courses during undergrad and really love it. Do you feel the Heinz curriculum will allow me/students to build on prior statistics skills? Additionally, are students capable of leaving and becoming true Data Scientists with a robust skillset?  

[woolscarves]

1 hour ago, Kaz_KV said:

Thank you so much for doing this! 

I'm a recent MSPPM-DA admitted student and I was wondering if you could address the curriculum. My worry is that the program is too management focused (not a real problem, just not what I want) and not enough data science (as opposed to data analytics) / statistics oriented. I took a lot of statistics courses during undergrad and really love it. Do you feel the Heinz curriculum will allow me/students to build on prior statistics skills? Additionally, are students capable of leaving and becoming true Data Scientists with a robust skillset?  

From what it sounds like, this program isn't for you. Anyone trying to be a "real" data scientist should do a true Data Science/ML masters. The curriculum is tailored towards people without any stats or specific computer programming background and getting them to the point of competence in two years. It does a good job of that. While I do have friends that have been able to make the curriculum work for them by exempting basic courses and taking a few more advanced classes from the CS school, it really just won't be the same IMO.

This is I think the major source of frustration for some students that come in. You're right, it's a data analytics program, not data science. It's simply not possible to take students with the wide variety of backgrounds that the program does and turn them into capable data scientists within the short timeframe while taking management/policy courses at the same time.

Happy to chat about it more if you want, but from the brief bit that I've heard, I wouldn't say it seems like the right fit.

[dspp_grad]

3 hours ago, Kaz_KV said:

Thank you so much for doing this! 

I'm a recent MSPPM-DA admitted student and I was wondering if you could address the curriculum. My worry is that the program is too management focused (not a real problem, just not what I want) and not enough data science (as opposed to data analytics) / statistics oriented. I took a lot of statistics courses during undergrad and really love it. Do you feel the Heinz curriculum will allow me/students to build on prior statistics skills? Additionally, are students capable of leaving and becoming true Data Scientists with a robust skillset?  

Hi @Kaz_KV, I was in a similar situation, deciding between MSPPM-DA and MSDSPP, and ultimately decided to go with McCourt (will be graduating in May). You're absolutely right that there is a big difference between Heinz's focus on data analytics and McCourt's focus on data science, and I got a pretty strong impression that the DSPP program was much more technically rigorous than the MSPPM-DA. (Revealingly, when I attended the admitted students day for Chicago's MSCAPP the guy who ran that program said he held the DSPP program in much higher regard than the MSPPM-DA.) The DSPP curriculum is more of a data science master's with a few policy classes thrown in, while the MSPPM-DA seemed to have a much higher ratio of management-type classes to technical classes.

Like the above poster said, if you want to be a Data Scientist in the private sector you should just do a master's in data science. But if you want to be a Data Scientist in the public or non-profit sectors McCourt will much better position you for that than Heinz, in my opinion. (And a few people from the DSPP program actually have gotten Data Scientist roles in the private sector, but I don't know if that's also true of Heinz.) There are pros and cons to both schools, obviously, but I wouldn't put too much weight on one pretty prolific poster's opinions in making a decision.

Edited March 18, 2021 by dspp_grad

[GradSchoolGrad]

40 minutes ago, dspp_grad said:

Hi @Kaz_KV, I was in a similar situation, deciding between MSPPM-DA and MSDSPP, and ultimately decided to go with McCourt (will be graduating in May). You're absolutely right that there is a big difference between Heinz's focus on data analytics and McCourt's focus on data science, and I got a pretty strong impression that the DSPP program was much more technically rigorous than the MSPPM-DA. (Revealingly, when I attended the admitted students day for Chicago's MSCAPP the guy who ran that program said he held the DSPP program in much higher regard than the MSPPM-DA.) The DSPP curriculum is more of a data science master's with a few policy classes thrown in, while the MSPPM-DA seemed to have a much higher ratio of management-type classes to technical classes.

Like the above poster said, if you want to be a Data Scientist in the private sector you should just do a master's in data science. But if you want to be a Data Scientist in the public or non-profit sectors McCourt will much better position you for that than Heinz, in my opinion. (And a few people from the DSPP program actually have gotten Data Scientist roles in the private sector, but I don't know if that's also true of Heinz.) There are pros and cons to both schools, obviously, but I wouldn't put too much weight on one pretty prolific poster's opinions in making a decision.

Good luck with DSPP program and reach out to me when you need a job/internship. Happy to help a fellow McCourt alumnus. Dr. Bailey is awesome. Stick with him and you'll be great.

[dspp_grad]

3 minutes ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

Good luck with DSPP program and reach out to me when you need a job/internship. Happy to help a fellow McCourt alumnus. Dr. Bailey is awesome. Stick with him and you'll be great.

Thanks, I appreciate it! FWIW, I agree with your general assessments about Dr. Bailey versus the career services office.

Edited March 18, 2021 by dspp_grad

[Kaz_KV]

46 minutes ago, dspp_grad said:

Like the above poster said, if you want to be a Data Scientist in the private sector you should just do a master's in data science. But if you want to be a Data Scientist in the public or non-profit sectors McCourt will much better position you for that than Heinz, in my opinion. (And a few people from the DSPP program actually have gotten Data Scientist roles in the private sector, but I don't know if that's also true of Heinz.) There are pros and cons to both schools, obviously, but I wouldn't put too much weight on one pretty prolific poster's opinions in making a decision.

These are great answers - thank you @dspp_grad and @woolscarves. I definitely had the impression that the DSPP was more data science focused, however I'm somewhat concerned with the employment prospects of its grads. When I reached out McCourt said the employment rate after 6months was 75%, whereas Heinz's was 94% for the same period (class of 2020). In addition, Heinz lists the roles and companies of their grads and I was shocked by the number of grads getting roles as data scientists in high profile private sector firms. But believe me, I went to undergrad in DC and have a great network there - I'd love to stay I'm just a little cautious and trying to learn more. 

That being said, I should have clarified that I am not interested in private sector data scientist roles. I'm actually interested in earning my PhD in Public Policy post-masters (this cycle didn't go well for me) so am really interested in being able to take PhD courses at Heinz. My interest in data science is similarly connected to my interest in policy research. I'd like to work more before trying for my PhD again and I'm aiming for pretty quant driven policy research positions at places like Mathematica. Pretty serious data science might not be necessary but in my experience it's always better to over-quant than under-quant.  

But thanks for the help everyone! This information has been super insightful.

[dspp_grad]

23 minutes ago, Kaz_KV said:

These are great answers - thank you @dspp_grad and @woolscarves. I definitely had the impression that the DSPP was more data science focused, however I'm somewhat concerned with the employment prospects of its grads. When I reached out McCourt said the employment rate after 6months was 75%, whereas Heinz's was 94% for the same period (class of 2020). In addition, Heinz lists the roles and companies of their grads and I was shocked by the number of grads getting roles as data scientists in high profile private sector firms. But believe me, I went to undergrad in DC and have a great network there - I'd love to stay I'm just a little cautious and trying to learn more. 

That being said, I should have clarified that I am not interested in private sector data scientist roles. I'm actually interested in earning my PhD in Public Policy post-masters (this cycle didn't go well for me) so am really interested in being able to take PhD courses at Heinz. My interest in data science is similarly connected to my interest in policy research. I'd like to work more before trying for my PhD again and I'm aiming for pretty quant driven policy research positions at places like Mathematica. Pretty serious data science might not be necessary but in my experience it's always better to over-quant than under-quant.  

But thanks for the help everyone! This information has been super insightful.

@Kaz_KV  Does Heinz list the specific roles at each organization? There are definitely some big-name companies like Facebook and IBM listed but I had the impression the roles at those companies were mostly "Business Analyst" or "Data Analyst" rather than "Data Scientist" (but I definitely could be wrong about that). I would also add that McCourt has a phenomenal track record of placing people into research organizations like Mathematica, Brookings, and Urban Institute; being from McCourt by no means guarantees you a job at these places but does give you a huge leg up and is probably somewhat easier than coming from Heinz.

Career-wise I think the most important factor to consider is simply whether you want to work in D.C. afterward. If you know you want to be in D.C., you should probably choose McCourt; if you want to keep your options more geographically open, you should probably choose Heinz. Being able to take PhD courses at Heinz is definitely a point in CMU's favor but, to the best of my knowledge, Public Policy PhD programs definitely aren't expecting you to have already taken PhD courses when you apply.

Edited March 18, 2021 by dspp_grad

[Kaz_KV]

32 minutes ago, dspp_grad said:

@Kaz_KV  Does Heinz list the specific roles at each organization? There are definitely some big-name companies like Facebook and IBM listed but I had the impression the roles at those companies were mostly "Business Analyst" or "Data Analyst" rather than "Data Scientist" (but I definitely could be wrong about that). I would also add that McCourt has a phenomenal track record of placing people into research organizations like Mathematica, Brookings, and Urban Institute; being from McCourt by no means guarantees you a job at these places but does give you a huge leg up and is probably somewhat easier than coming from Heinz.

Career-wise I think the most important factor to consider is simply whether you want to work in D.C. afterward. If you know you want to be in D.C., you should probably choose McCourt; if you want to keep your options more geographically open, you should probably choose Heinz. Being able to take PhD courses at Heinz is definitely a point in CMU's favor but, to the best of my knowledge, Public Policy PhD programs definitely aren't expecting you to have already taken PhD courses when you apply.

@dspp_grad Here is the resource I found for Heinz grad specific roles from 2019 and 2020. Let me know if the links don't work.

https://www.heinz.cmu.edu/heinz-shared/_files/img/career-services-pages/employment-reports/msppm-da-2020-web-employment-report.pdf

https://www.heinz.cmu.edu/heinz-shared/_files/img/career-services-pages/employment-reports/msppm-da-employment-report-may-2019.pdf

You're absolutely right that the majority of grads take roles as Data Analysts, but I was nonetheless surprised to see more than a few Data Scientists.

Your point about McCourt's strength in DC and in the specific roles I'm looking at is exactly why this decision is so hard. Since I do want to be in DC and work at research orgs like the ones listed, I am by no means ruling out McCourt. However, PhD admissions is crazy and any leg up in quant is something I want to take. Not only does CMU let masters students take PhD courses at Heinz and across departments, but they explicitly mention in their handbook a PhD track that allows MSPPM-DA students to take upper level undergrad math (I never got to take Real Analysis) and do an optional thesis with a faculty member for elective credit.  

Definitely pros and cons at each school. Thanks for all this additional info - it's definitely shed some helpful light on McCourt.

[dspp_grad]

8 minutes ago, Kaz_KV said:

@dspp_grad Here is the resource I found for Heinz grad specific roles from 2019 and 2020. Let me know if the links don't work.

https://www.heinz.cmu.edu/heinz-shared/_files/img/career-services-pages/employment-reports/msppm-da-2020-web-employment-report.pdf

https://www.heinz.cmu.edu/heinz-shared/_files/img/career-services-pages/employment-reports/msppm-da-employment-report-may-2019.pdf

You're absolutely right that the majority of grads take roles as Data Analysts, but I was nonetheless surprised to see more than a few Data Scientists.

Your point about McCourt's strength in DC and in the specific roles I'm looking at is exactly why this decision is so hard. Since I do want to be in DC and work at research orgs like the ones listed, I am by no means ruling out McCourt. However, PhD admissions is crazy and any leg up in quant is something I want to take. Not only does CMU let masters students take PhD courses at Heinz and across departments, but they explicitly mention in their handbook a PhD track that allows MSPPM-DA students to take upper level undergrad math (I never got to take Real Analysis) and do an optional thesis with a faculty member for elective credit.  

Definitely pros and cons at each school. Thanks for all this additional info - it's definitely shed some helpful light on McCourt.

No problem! I didn't know about the PhD track - in that case, it sounds like Heinz is probably the way to go. You certainly would still be able to land jobs at the DC research organizations coming out of Heinz, you might just have to work a little harder for those positions than if you were coming out of McCourt.