Advice on MSW Programs

[willXdavidson]

I'll try to be brief (which isn't one of my strong suits).

I had originally applied for an MSW program in my current town(the only option). Well, it turns out I'm moving to the east coast and now have the choice of the MSW programs in pretty much any large city from SC to MA. So I'm pushing school back a year. (starting n the fall of 2011)

My career goal is to be a Social Worker with the VA and, once the kids are grown, explore international options (last kid won't be out of the house for 15 years so this is not an immediate concern).

My immediate concern is this-my undergraduate and previous graduate GPA's sucked. Undergrad and Grad both were about 2.8. My grad is an MDiv and the ten or so ancient Greek and Hebrew classes killed it. Plus I had some family issues that kept me away from the books in both undergrad and grad school.

My work/life experience seems to be good. I have experience counseling (marriage, family, individual), general social work type stuff (I was pastoring a congregation in an economically depressed and culturally diverse area), and currently am a case worker for the State.

So, as an MSW candidate I have poor academics but good life experience (excellent letters of recommendation). Oh, and for what's it worth I test way above my GPA. My GRE's were in the 85th-95th percentiles.

Now on to my question. What are my realistic options for admissions? I've made the following list that includes all accredited MSW schools located near VA Medical Center locations in my geographic area. I took out schools that had a hard and fast GPA requirement 3.0 or greater (according to their website). I also took out a couple that I knew I didn't want to live in that location and was left with the following:

UNC Chapel Hill

Washington University in St. Louis

UM-Baltimore

University of South Carolina

Rutgers

Norfolk State

Fordham University

Boston U

Wheelock C

Boston College

Catholic University

NYU

Columbia University

Basically I assume some are out of my league (Columbia and NYU for example) while others I should be able to get into (like Norfolk State). But, what I'm looking for from you all are which schools are the best (challenging and preparing for career goal) ones that I'm likely to get into.

Thanks!

[willXdavidson]

Ok, let me try a more general question that might elicit some responses.

I've seen the rankings of Social Work schools plus I have a good idea about the academic rigor and intellectual curiosity at certain schools. With a little bit of research, it's pretty easy to divide MSW programs into a top tier, middle tier and lower tier. Sure, there would be some disagreement about the edges of the tiers but I don't think anyone would try to say that NSU is in the same league as NYU. (I may be wrong-but for argument's sake let's say I'm not)

Based on my assumption that there are generally three tiers of schools where would a student like me fit? Lower grades (2.8-2.9 in grad and undergrad but with a decent reason, according to the dean of one MSW school to which I had applied but am now not going to attend) but excellent test scores, work/volunteer experience, and leadership experience.

Thanks for any input!

ps-I'm not saying that certain schools produce substandard MSW students. I think the right student can excel and achieve in any program, I just know for me I tend to do better when I'm challenged both academically and clinically.

[tem11]

I think the main reason you're not getting responses is because a lot of people aren't on gradcafe at this point in time. Once the acceptances start rolling in, people tend to stray a bit .

I personally think you have a good shot at any of the programs listed, though you should keep in mind that VA social work positions are incredibly scarce. Life experience seems to be more important than grades for admission to most MSW programs and it sounds like you have some really strong work experience. That being said, the worst part about getting a MSW is the cost of education. If you don't plan to go into academic research, then the name and reputation of your institution isn't nearly as important as just having your clinical license. I really can't advise you enough to go wherever is cheapest which more often than not means going to a state school. Unfortunately, you're probably not going to be able to get great funding packages with your low GPAs. I have a great deal of work experience, a 3.8 GPA and excellent letters of recommendation and I got very little funding from Columbia or NYU (nevermind the cost of living in NYC). It's absurd to spend $120K to get a degree in social work, which was recently rated the worst paying job in America. Some people on this forum seem to think a MSW is worth that much, especially those who are excited about Columbia's international program, but I disagree. The truth is, though, if you're really interested in international social work there are countless opportunities to work or volunteer for international organizations. You could volunteer with local organizations that have an international focus, or you could take volunteer trips overseas for vacations. For now though, escaping your MSW with as little debt as possible (especially if you have a young family) is the most important piece of advice I can offer.

Best of luck with your applications and let me know if you have any other questions about the admissions process.

[annie a]

Hi,

I do agree about not going into to debt if you want to go into straight-up social work direct practice, i.e. case management which is clearly one of the worst paying jobs in America - and always has been!

However, if you are interested in applying your MSW in a different direction, let's say combine it with an MPA or MPH or your existing masters to go into academic research (as TerriM mentioned), international consultancy work, work with a large INGO (Red Cross, IRC, etc) or a job at the UN even, then it likely may be worth it if you have one of these specific career goals.

The bottom line on deciding what is 'absurd' versus 'logical' in terms of education debt really depends on what it is you want to do in this broad field and where priorities are (i.e.paying for house and mortgage instead of loans). Common sense would tell us that if you want to work with homeless women in inner-city Chicago, a position I held for several years, going into huge debt is not worth it as I was making around $40,000 with an exisiting masters. Alternately, if you are interested in workin with the IRC, in Sudan for example, a masters from a school with perhaps some more connections can help quite a bit....as a current development worker with well over ten years of experience in the nonprofit sector, I do see this quite a bit. But I don't want to imply that gaining an MSW from a school without a high profile will keep you from achieving higher paying international work - it just might be a little more challenging or take a bit more time.

So when you apply - depending on what it is you really want to pursue - apply to a wide range of schools from NYU to NSU, you may be surprised about what you can achieve with your existing stats!!

Best of luck to you

I think the main reason you're not getting responses is because a lot of people aren't on gradcafe at this point in time. Once the acceptances start rolling in, people tend to stray a bit .

I personally think you have a good shot at any of the programs listed, though you should keep in mind that VA social work positions are incredibly scarce. Life experience seems to be more important than grades for admission to most MSW programs and it sounds like you have some really strong work experience. That being said, the worst part about getting a MSW is the cost of education. If you don't plan to go into academic research, then the name and reputation of your institution isn't nearly as important as just having your clinical license. I really can't advise you enough to go wherever is cheapest which more often than not means going to a state school. Unfortunately, you're probably not going to be able to get great funding packages with your low GPAs. I have a great deal of work experience, a 3.8 GPA and excellent letters of recommendation and I got very little funding from Columbia or NYU (nevermind the cost of living in NYC). It's absurd to spend $120K to get a degree in social work, which was recently rated the worst paying job in America. Some people on this forum seem to think a MSW is worth that much, especially those who are excited about Columbia's international program, but I disagree. The truth is, though, if you're really interested in international social work there are countless opportunities to work or volunteer for international organizations. You could volunteer with local organizations that have an international focus, or you could take volunteer trips overseas for vacations. For now though, escaping your MSW with as little debt as possible (especially if you have a young family) is the most important piece of advice I can offer.

Best of luck with your applications and let me know if you have any other questions about the admissions process.

[michigan girl]

Everyone has given you great advice so far. I also recommend applying to MSW programs in the state/region you plan to work. If you are more interested in direct practice work rather than policy/community work, then go to the cheapest school because name recognition is more important for policy/international/research opportunities. The bottom line is don't go into a lot of unnecessary debt for the degree.

Edited July 17, 2010 by michigan girl

[willXdavidson]

So, if I'm hearing you all right, name recognition only comes into play on the international/ngo type work. Yeah, that appeals to me but it's not practical right now (or for another 15 years or so).

I hear you with the VA jobs. It's a passion of mine and I've been told how difficult it is to get in, but I've also heard that if you do your field work/practicum/internship with the VA and you do a good job/make connections it's a lot easier.

I think I'll avoid going into (too much) debt and go for one of the state schools where I live.

[annie a]

Just to reemphasize - name recognition is certainly not the only way to get into international NGO work - it is simply one avenue out of many and there are certainly no guarantees just because you went to a "big name school" that you will get the job of your dreams. Going to a state school and then going overseas to volunteer and make connections is also a viable approach.

Good luck!

So, if I'm hearing you all right, name recognition only comes into play on the international/ngo type work. Yeah, that appeals to me but it's not practical right now (or for another 15 years or so).

I hear you with the VA jobs. It's a passion of mine and I've been told how difficult it is to get in, but I've also heard that if you do your field work/practicum/internship with the VA and you do a good job/make connections it's a lot easier.

I think I'll avoid going into (too much) debt and go for one of the state schools where I live.

[JessieB]

I've been a little confused on why so many on this forum have been applying to big schools that may push them further into debt than a state school would, but if they're doing research or getting a Ph.D then that makes sense.

I agree on the not going into debt, or as little as possible. Do keep in mind that if you work for a non-profit or the government for 10 years then they erase your remaining debt (if there is any at that point). Having contacts within the VA would definitely help. I don't how it works for that particular agency, but I know for a lot of government jobs there is a "points" system and sometimes little things can you a points boost of 5 or so. You could also look to see if you can do anything or have any qualifications that lend to getting higher points (they score on a 0 to 100 scale I believe). I've just seen something about the Navy hiring social workers as well...might be something to check out.

If I were you, I'd apply to some big schools that may be hit or miss in terms of financial aid and some state schools. Just see where it goes.

Good luck!

[michigan girl]

Some applicants apply to big-name schools (e.g. Michigan, Berkeley, Columbia, WashU etc.) because they are research powerhouses (great for PhD study) and have strong alumni networks. If you are interested in macro social work practice, this is very important because connections can really help in the nonprofit/NGO sector.

[inspiratione]

I have been admitted to University of Chicago with a scholarship and UIC for MSW. Even with the scholarship, UIC is the cheaper choice. Even though UC has a great reputation, is it worth the higher cost? I know that UIC also has a good reputation and that students from both schools tend to do similar internships. I am interested in going into policy, which UC has a great track in and UIC does not have a policy track. Will UIC give me the same opportunities as UC? Which one is the better choice?

[PsyK]

I have been admitted to University of Chicago with a scholarship and UIC for MSW. Even with the scholarship, UIC is the cheaper choice. Even though UC has a great reputation, is it worth the higher cost? I know that UIC also has a good reputation and that students from both schools tend to do similar internships. I am interested in going into policy, which UC has a great track in and UIC does not have a policy track. Will UIC give me the same opportunities as UC? Which one is the better choice?

I spoke with a student from Jane Addams over email who is in the Community Health and Urban Development track and "very policy level focused." If you'd like, I can email her again and ask if I can give you her address. She was very helpful and gave me detailed answers to my questions even though I'm clinical!

I don't know anyone in the administration concentration at U of C. You could always email admissions and ask for a student contact.

Good luck with your decision!

Edited April 8, 2011 by PsyK

[chester12]

On 7/11/2010 at 11:43 PM, willXdavidson said:

I'll try to be brief (which isn't one of my strong suits).

I had originally applied for an MSW program in my current town(the only option). Well, it turns out I'm moving to the east coast and now have the choice of the MSW programs in pretty much any large city from SC to MA. So I'm pushing school back a year. (starting n the fall of 2011)

My career goal is to be a Social Worker with the VA and, once the kids are grown, explore international options (last kid won't be out of the house for 15 years so this is not an immediate concern).

My immediate concern is this-my undergraduate and previous graduate GPA's sucked. Undergrad and Grad both were about 2.8. My grad is an MDiv and the ten or so ancient Greek and Hebrew classes killed it. Plus I had some family issues that kept me away from the books in both undergrad and grad school.

My work/life experience seems to be good. I have experience counseling (marriage, family, individual), general social work type stuff (I was pastoring a congregation in an economically depressed and culturally diverse area), and currently am a case worker for the State.

So, as an MSW candidate I have poor academics but good life experience (excellent letters of recommendation). Oh, and for what's it worth I test way above my GPA. My GRE's were in the 85th-95th percentiles.

Now on to my question. What are my realistic options for admissions? I've made the following list that includes all accredited MSW schools located near VA Medical Center locations in my geographic area. I took out schools that had a hard and fast GPA requirement 3.0 or greater (according to their website). I also took out a couple that I knew I didn't want to live in that location and was left with the following:

UNC Chapel Hill

Washington Univrsity in St. Louis

UM-Baltimore

University of South Carolina

Rutgers

Norfolk State

Fordham University

Boston U

Wheelock C

Boston College

Catholic University

NYU

Columbia University

Basically I assume some are out of my league (Columbia and NYU for example) while others I should be able to get into (like Norfolk State). But, what I'm looking for from you all are which schools are the best (challenging and preparing for career goal) ones that I'm likely to get into.

Thanks!

[chester12]

You should also consider NCSU in Raleigh, as the SW program there has an internship relationship with the VA for 2nd year students.

Best possible advice: Demonstrate that you can expand your comfort zone 24-7. Ask about taking any graduate level SW class that will help you get that gpa up and will also demonstrate your commitment to the field. Examine the curricula of the programs before you commit to a class, as many grad level classes will not transfer. Check those admissions criteria and if the programs require BIO or Stats then be in touch with the program about the best classes to take. If you are concerned about your gpa and can't take grad level courses (NCSU and UNC-CH can be strict about that gpa issue) then look at UNC-Greensboro and Appalachian State in NC. References need to be top notch. Your essay needs to be succinct, address the admissions questions asked, and must use excellent grammar.

Communicate with the admissions staff in the program! Be formal in your language (please no emails from your phone that starts off, "hey..." Write questions down before you call or email. Be patient and be polite when you contact folks; they are often juggling multiple tasks and they can provide the most accurate and helpful information to you any step along the way. You need them.

Graduate school is the first step in your professional career, whether you have been working in that field or not. Treat the application process as such and your chances will be exponentially improved.