Grad vs. Ugrad, Canadian vs. American GPAs

[aselfmadewinter]

This post is sort of about two related issues: graduate and undergraduate GPAs, and Canadian vs. American GPAs.

Here's my situation: I got a my undergraduate (specialist in Philosophy and Religion) at the University of Toronto. My GPA was alright, but not outstanding - a 3.4 (out of 4). However, it was good enough to get me into an MA (also at U of T), in which I earned a 3.8. I also have two publications.

Now, I'm thinking about applying to a mix of American and Canadian schools - McGill, UBC, McMaster, U of T in Canada, and Notre Dame, Emory, UChicago and a couple other in the US. So, I've been wondering, is my lower, though not too terrible, undergrad GPA a liability? Do schools prefer graduate or undergraduate GPAs? Moreover, I've noticed that the US has a completely different grading system. Is that taken into consideration when applying outside of Canada?

Further, the grades that brought down my undergrad GPA tended to be either in my first year (I had a LOT of Bs in my first year) or in courses completely unrelated to my field, whereas my grades in my field are consistently high. If nothing else, my undergrad degree taught me what I'm good at, and what I'm hopeless at! Hopefully, if it comes down to the wire, they'll look at my individual courses.

One other odd thing is that Canadian university admissions sites (at least in the field of Religion) often indicate a minimum MA GPA for PhD considerations (which is actually kind of low - 3.5 is the number I've seen a few times), whereas American universities don't seem to say anything about MA grades, or about MAs in general. Is it possible that the MA means more in Canada than it does in the US for PhD applications?

(also... anyone think I have a shot at US universities with my low ugrad GPA and higher grad GPA? Any thoughts?)

Edited July 23, 2010 by aselfmadewinter

[Eigen]

From a US perspective, I would say your two GPAs are pretty much equivalent.

In the US, graduate GPA's are expected to be much higher than undergrad GPAs, with anything below 3.0 being academic probation in many programs.

I'm not sure what you mean about the US having a completely different grading system- but then I'm not so familiar with Canadian grading systems in general, I've only looked at a few institutions there.

Grades in/out of your major are often looked at differently. While you're expected to have a good overall GPA, many universities also look at both an "overall GPA" and a "Major GPA".

[aselfmadewinter]

Thanks for the reply. It helps to know about graduate GPA's being expected to be higher in the US, it seems to be a bit different up here, since most of the institutions I've inquired into have told me that a 3.5 MA GPA is a standard requirement. The different grading system I was referring to is how an 80% grade in Canada is an A-, a 3.7, while it's a B (I forget what that would be as a US GPA) in the US. However, I think that gets sorted out when it gets calculated as a GPA, since I've heard through the grapevine that the GPAs themselves are equivalent. An 85 in Canada would be considered an excellent grade.

[Eigen]

Depending on the school, in the US an 80% would actually be considered a B-, or the equivalent of a 2.67 GPA.

Some of the large schools don't use +/- grades, but quite a few do. A +/- system usually works something like: 97+-> A+, 93-97, A, 87-92, A-, 93-97, B+, etc.

But equating a % grade to a letter grade is nearly impossible to do with any certainty. I've taken math classes where a -16 to 30 was a C, 30-50 a B and anything above 50 was an A. One of the main reasons it's so hard to directly compare them, is that professors/programs may either curve the scores (by changing the percentage grade) or simply change the percent range for each letter grade.

Graduate grades tend to run on scales like the ones I just mentioned in most US schools- anything below a B- is a failing grade, so the grade range is extended accordingly.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Eigen

[aselfmadewinter]

Yeah, the whole % thing is probably impossible to equate. I can't fathom an 80% being a 2.67... that's pretty abysmal. I know for a fact that U of Toronto has a bellcurving policy where very few 80%+ grades are given. That must explain why the GPA grading system is equivalent even though the % grades aren't. I've been told that it's absolutely necessary to point out to American schools that your grades come fram a Canadian institution, since % grades show up on transcripts. Like I said, an 85% in Canada would be a 4.0, and there's very few of those given out in undergraduate classes.

Well, I guess that makes me a fan of the 4 point GPA system for the first time in my life. I used to think a % grade system would work better for academics but seeing the difference between American and Canadian systems, I guess the GPA is the only way to go short of standardizing everything.

Thanks for the info, I think I should be fine for my applications as long as I don't only apply to top 20 US schools. I'll throw some safety schools in there, and it should turn out alright.