How doable are grad classes as an undergrad?

[warbrain]

So in high school, I took a lot of AP classes, college-level, or at least they're supposed to be college level. Like, I took 2 my sophomore year, 5 my junior year, and 4 my senior year along with multivariable calculus and discrete math at my local university. And I've definitely met a considerable amount of people at my university that took even more demanding course loads in high school (my high school was actually pretty bad).

My question is basically, is this type of thing doable as an undergraduate with graduate classes, or is it common? Do serious grad school applicants take a full load of graduate classes when they're in their junior or senior years, or is there a larger gap between undergrad and grad than high school and college that makes this difficult?

[Eigen]

It's doable, but I would encourage you to broaden yourself instead.

Taking masses of graduate classes won't be as beneficial as, say, more research experience. My PhD program only requires 6 graduate classes in total, and the general consensus is that classes aren't that important. All the prof's would prefer we take the same time to teach ourselves new techniques, keep up with current literature, etc. You'll learn more by spending your time keeping abreast of several of the better publications in your field than in a graduate class, imo.

In my experience, graduate level classes are about teaching yourself moreso than simply pushing harder, more advanced material. This isn't to say they're easy, they are certainly time consuming and challenging.

I took a few myself, but instead of taking a lot of graduate classes, I'd suggest branching out and taking courses from related disciplines and spending more time on your research.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Eigen

[bon to the jour]

Taking a bunch of graduate classes may actually just be a a big, expensive waste of time. At least in psychology, most schools only accept 6 or so transfer hours towards your graduate degree. Look into the policy on credit transfer at the schools your thinking of applying to and make sure that if you spend the time and money in graduate level classes, they will count towards your eventual degree.

[fuzzylogician]

Taking a bunch of graduate classes may actually just be a a big, expensive waste of time. At least in psychology, most schools only accept 6 or so transfer hours towards your graduate degree. Look into the policy on credit transfer at the schools your thinking of applying to and make sure that if you spend the time and money in graduate level classes, they will count towards your eventual degree.

I think the OP's idea is to take graduate level courses in order to boost their application and prove that they can do graduate level work, not necessarily in order to transfer credits to a graduate degree.

It could only help you if you could participate in smaller advanced classes, do good work and try to secure a letter of recommendation afterward. A graduate seminar could be a good place to start working on what could turn into your writing sample as well. But from what I see in my department, at least, it's not at all common for undergraduates to take grad courses. This might be school/field dependent, though. If you can do something to gain more research experience, I agree that it would be preferable. Or ff you have interests that require skills you don't yet have - e.g. programming, stats, foreign languages - you could work on that as well. If you could explain in your SOP how you've gone an extra mile to prepare yourself for exploring your interests in grad school, that would make a good impression.

[Eigen]

Also keep in mind that at most schools, taking a graduate level course as an undergrad will not get you graduate level credit for said course.

There are generally separate grading schemes and assignments for the two sections of the class.

This also means that should you want to transfer credit (I transferred two classes worth), you had better be prepared to defend (in my case, to a committee) that you did work worthy of graduate credit in the classes you want to transfer over.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Eigen

[natsteel]

Like a poster above said, I wouldn't take graduate classes as an undergrad in place of doing a significant research project, which would be a more integral part of your grad application. I did an honors thesis in my junior year and am now taking 2 grad classes in the fall of my senior year. That said, I'm not doing it so much as a way to show I can do graduate-level work, since my thesis should certainly show that. I'm doing it more as a means of gaining exposure to the in-and-out-of-classroom graduate school dynamics, if that makes sense.

[Mr. Wonton]

It's definitely doable, and seniors at my undergrad often took grad classes as electives to fulfill their major requirements. I took a grad level class every semester starting from my junior year - my grades in intro-level courses were erratic, so I wanted to assure grad schools that I was perfectly capable of handling grad-level classes and would be able to pass my quals. However, my research project always came first (and my grades in grad classes still turned out ok!).

[Alette]

I don't think the analogy that AP courses is to high school as grad level classes are to undergrad is correct. AP classes are meant for high schoolers. I'm sure you noticed when you got to your undergrad that there is little relationship between your AP classes and your college classes. I'm a big supporter of AP - it did give me an opportunity to push myself in the limited course environment that is the high school curriculum l in the areas I was most interested in, and I did skip a semester of college thanks to my scores, but the analogy does not stand. Undergrad classes and the entire experience are nothing like grad school.

The benefits of AP are obvious - a chance to transfer credits if you score high enough on the exams. Additionally, in high school your options and freedoms for coursework are very limited. I assume you selected an undergrad institution that has ample opportunity for you to delve into a myriad of courses in your field, and I wouldn't move on until you've explored the field fully. In other words, there is little to no benefit of taking grad classes now. I would focus on taking advanced level courses for undergrads. Your school may have combined undergrad/grad courses, and that might be something worth checking out.

Another thing to keep in mind is that graduate level course work anticipates a certain lifestyle and level of preparation which are incompatible with the undergrad experience. ENJOY your undergrad while you can! There is an enormous difference between grad work and undergrad work; graduate school is not a continuation of your undergrad.

I'll echo the others and say your research is the most important thing you can focus on. If you have the opportunity to do so, write a senior thesis. Become involved with related activities on campus - maybe a good one for you would be to work as a math tutor.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Alette

[fadoesaudade]

I have taken several graduate classes as undergrad and found the experience to be overwhelmingly positive. I appreciated the depth and breadth of information covered in the classes. My field (linguistics) is terminology heavy and my graduate work gave me the ability to understand and appreciate the nuance in modern research articles. The exposure also informed my research interests and gave me the confidence to frame them in context. Although I agree that graduate classes are not a substitute for outside research, I do believe they helped me gain exposure to the field in a valuable way. As long as the professors are cool with taking on an undergrad, I say jump in!

[lifetimestudent]

I would *not* suggest that undergrads take grad courses in the same way in which high schoolers take APs. That's because APs are really a "high level" track in high school. Maybe they are "college level", whatever that means--as we know, different colleges are more or less difficult than others--maybe they are not. But you should focus on undergrad courses in college since that is what you are there as--an undergrad. Graduate courses have a very different purpose than undergrad classes. That being said, I think that it would be a good experience to take one or two in an area where you think you might like to specialize in. First, it helps you figure out if you really want to go to grad school in that area, and second, it can help you think about good topics to study in the field which will help you write your SOP.