Choosing Between History Programs

[Minnesotan]

Reporting bias is the culprit, often.

[anese]

Reporting bias is the culprit, often.

Agreed--I've noticed that too, but I figure most people who would want to publicly talk about this sort of thing with strangers want to have the shiniest pedigree possible. (Before anyone jumps down my throat, note that I said most)

I speak from experience on this one--but atleast having a presence on these forums has knocked my academic ego down a few pegs.

[Minnesotan]

If they're bragging about getting into a grad program at an Ivy, they are often demonstrating ignorance more than intelligence. Most of the top 20 schools in my sub-field are public land grant universities or other state universities. Ivies are not that desirable, unless you want to impress strangers -- who aren't in the know -- with your degree from Brown.

Judging from the comments made around here (re: school rankings, prestige) for the last few years, my area of study is not unique in this. I've said it a million times when people post, asking for advice: fit is the most important criterion for choosing a grad program.

***Edit: I thought I should note that there are quite a few regular posters and/or moderators here who have turned down Ivy league schools for state schools. The same goes for turning down top-ranked schools to go to lesser-ranked schools because the program felt like a better fit. I honestly think the difference between a top 10 and a top 30 school is negligible, knowing full well that aspects other than prestige are what made me choose my schools. (I did my MA at a different institution.) The best an English degree from Berkeley or Yale will get you is an interview, and there are a hundred other ways to get your file into the interview pile. Moreover, once you get that call, your degree has nothing to do with whether you score a campus visit or not.

[anese]

If they're bragging about getting into a grad program at an Ivy, they are often demonstrating ignorance more than intelligence. Most of the top 20 schools in my sub-field are public land grant universities or other state universities. Ivies are not that desirable, unless you want to impress strangers -- who aren't in the know -- with your degree from Brown.

Judging from the comments made around here (re: school rankings, prestige) for the last few years, my area of study is not unique in this. I've said it a million times when people post, asking for advice: fit is the most important criterion for choosing a grad program.

***Edit: I thought I should note that there are quite a few regular posters and/or moderators here who have turned down Ivy league schools for state schools. The same goes for turning down top-ranked schools to go to lesser-ranked schools because the program felt like a better fit. I honestly think the difference between a top 10 and a top 30 school is negligible, knowing full well that aspects other than prestige are what made me choose my schools. (I did my MA at a different institution.) The best an English degree from Berkeley or Yale will get you is an interview, and there are a hundred other ways to get your file into the interview pile. Moreover, once you get that call, your degree has nothing to do with whether you score a campus visit or not.

I think one of the legitimate worries that many individuals have is over whether or not their school will get them a TT interview at a big-name institution. As you've said, where you have earned your degree is not the deciding factor in what hiring committees at universities have to say. However, I can see why many people in glutted humanities fields feel the need to throw themselves at Ivy league departments.

Fortunately, I get the feeling that as more of us become familiar with the realities of academia, we develop a better taste for what would truly benefit us in the job search.

[rising_star]

Minnesotan said:

If they're bragging about getting into a grad program at an Ivy, they are often demonstrating ignorance more than intelligence. Most of the top 20 schools in my sub-field are public land grant universities or other state universities. Ivies are not that desirable, unless you want to impress strangers -- who aren't in the know -- with your degree from Brown.

Judging from the comments made around here (re: school rankings, prestige) for the last few years, my area of study is not unique in this. I've said it a million times when people post, asking for advice: fit is the most important criterion for choosing a grad program.

***Edit: I thought I should note that there are quite a few regular posters and/or moderators here who have turned down Ivy league schools for state schools. The same goes for turning down top-ranked schools to go to lesser-ranked schools because the program felt like a better fit. I honestly think the difference between a top 10 and a top 30 school is negligible, knowing full well that aspects other than prestige are what made me choose my schools. (I did my MA at a different institution.) The best an English degree from Berkeley or Yale will get you is an interview, and there are a hundred other ways to get your file into the interview pile. Moreover, once you get that call, your degree has nothing to do with whether you score a campus visit or not.

LOL... if only because hardly anyone knows Brown is in the Ivy League. But seriously, what Minnesotan said holds true for me (though I'm not a historian). There are no graduate programs in my discipline at Ivy League or other "elite" private schools like that (Stanford, WUSTL, etc) so you'll never find anyone bragging about acceptances there. What you do find is that people go to programs of all sorts of levels just to work with one or two people. I'm going where I am specifically to work with one person, who has already committed to being my major professor provided we're happy working together. I am going there with 3 of the 5 committee members I need already picked out and knowing that I intend to have them on my committee. (I should mention that this program was ranked top 25 in the last round but there are only like 60 US schools granting PhDs...) It really is all about fit. I got in because of fit, not because I'm the best applicant. I'll get job interviews because of fit and my credentials, not because I went to Berkeley. I really dislike the attitude of some who think that you cannot get a "good job" (whatever that is) without getting your PhD from a top 10 university.

[Minnesotan]

I think one of the legitimate worries that many individuals have is over whether or not their school will get them a TT interview at a big-name institution. As you've said, where you have earned your degree is not the deciding factor in what hiring committees at universities have to say. However, I can see why many people in glutted humanities fields feel the need to throw themselves at Ivy league departments.

Well, right. It's really just a form of academic prostitution, in that you're selling yourself to a big name rather than actually getting to know the department with whom you'll be fraternizing (or sororizing, if that be the case) for meager pay and treatment as a second-class citizen. If we're fortunate, we have pimps in the form of labor unions, but they really only have power over us, since 5k grad students would never agree to strike, for various political and philosophical reasons - most of which are rooted in laziness or fear. Luckily they don't beat us if we get fresh, but the universities certainly do a good job of "turning us out," as the job market demonstrates.

When it comes down to it, people can do what they want. Just have a look at a department's placement rate before touting its "prestige factor." You'll note that a lot of the big name programs are consistently outshined by departments ten places down the list. This could be a trend worth noting.