History Admissions Process

[geigwm6]

Hello,

This is my first time posting here, and I am sorry if this is not the appropriate forum for this (because I am only a college sophomore). However, I have really decided that a MA/Ph.D in History is something I want to pursue. However, I have a few reservations, primarily because of my GPA. My cumulative GPA is nothing to write home about, but my History GPA (with 18 hours so far) is pretty good. I am imagining when applying I will have a 3.3 cumulative and a 3.6-3.7 History GPA. My school is known to have grades that are a bit lower--I go to Wake Forest University--but I have no idea how that will be taken into account (our average GPA is a 2.8).

As many of you have/are going through the admissions process is there any advice you can give me? I have talked to some of my professors about it. I am interested in American History, primarily colonial American History (and to be even more specific the role of religion in colonial America). So I know decent programs are William and Mary, UVA, and UNC-Chapel Hill.

If any of you all could provide any insight it would be much appreciated. Thank you!

[Cornell07]

Many of the same rules apply as with most graduate programs. There are of course many more things to do when you get to within about 6 months of the app deadline; these are the things you should focus on now:

1) Research. Research. Research. Write. Write. Write. Do an Honors Thesis, an Indep. Study, assist a professor with his book, assist archivists etc... Use primary sources! If you are really motivated, try to get something published or presented at a confrence. It doesn't have to be in a major publication or confrence, because anything at this stage in the game looks great on a CV.

2) Get to know a couple professors really well. Take smaller seminars, go to office hours, speak-up etc... The better a prof knows you, the better the rec he can write. After you finish his class, maintain a line contact such as a friendly email from time to time such as when you come across a recently published article, news story e.g. that you think that he'd be interested in.

3) Determine your field roughly and start to learn as many related languages as you can. As a colonial Americanist, it depends in large part on which area of the country you have a particular interest: Spanish and German are usually the big languages from what I understand: French, Dutch etc... also help.

[Sonic]

Hello,

It's nice to encounter someone on the forum who has similar academic interests to mine! I'm graduating with a BA this May and attending graduate school in the fall, probably at William and Mary. I agree with what Cornell07 wrote about doing work with primary sources and learning languages. Those things seem to go a long way in setting you apart from other applicants.

It seems like you're also concerned about how your grades will be interpreted. It might be a good idea to select as one of your recommenders a faculty member who will be able to briefly explain how grades work at your institution, like the chair of your department or your faculty adviser. If your grades are significantly higher than most others at your school, you want your recommenders to mention that. If you are still worried, make sure you prepare thoroughly for the GRE, and take it early in case you want to take it again, since you have to wait a month to retake it.

The advice I wish I'd had the most before starting the process is to begin everything early, no matter how crazy people think that is. Even though I began applications as soon as they were available (usually August or September), I was still swamped with supplements, forms, letters of intent, plus the workload of a college senior by the December deadlines. Start working on your statement of purpose early, investigate the faculty and degree programs of your schools over the summer, and ask for recommendations months ahead of time. Getting those things out of the way will leave you more time to actually prepare your application and keep your sanity.

Good luck! I hope this helps.

Sonic

[TMP]

Don't worry too much about your GPA. Some of us got feedback from grad school profs and NOT one of them mentioned our "low" GPA. They don't care about it as much as your SOP (Statement of Purpose essay), writing sample, and letters of recommendations. What can you do?

SOP- You might not find yourself interested in Colonial America two years from now but you will be expanding your interests in other areas as you go through your major. When I was a sophomore, I thought I'd go in for Holocaust/Modern European history. Now, I'm still interested in the Holocaust but with an American pespective... so namely, 20th Century US (the most competitve PhD field but I'm marketing myself as a Jewish historian). You will connect your interests over time to develop your reasons for studying that field in graduate school. Also you want to think very hard about WHY you want to go- WHY should these people invest in $300K in you for five years?

And yes, I agree with Cornell07- get some languages under belt, particularly French and German.

Also, I agree. Research experience helps. If you can't get it one way or another, it won't hurt you. It only helps if you can get your hands on the archives. I've had professors comment on my CV (2-3 research internships) but wished that I had stronger focus.

Writing Sample- Try to sign up for a senior seminar in your junior year so you can get a very good thesis together in time for fall admissions in your senior year. I knew that I wasn't going to finish my thesis (I was abroad spring of my junior year) so I did a major research paper while abroad to compensate. Of course my senior thesis was absolute crap by the first deadline. And now I'm getting feedback from professors saying I should've sent in my senior thesis instead of a regular research paper (in other words, should've applied for Fall 09! LOL) but now I am giving some of them my thesis for MA consideration. You need to demonsrate "compelling" research with lots of different sources. And of course, great writing skills. Ugh.

LORS- If you haven't declared your history majo yet- Pick a prof who's interested in Colonial America as your advisor. Not noly he'll get to know you as a person (as an advisee) but also as a student as you take more and more of his classes (especially seminar). That person will be able to be your main spokesperson and speak of you as a whole person, not just "he was in my class for one semester..." Furthermore, this prof will have connections to other schools with your interests and that will help quite a bit. (Academic politics is very nasty and high-schoolish)

Know that from reading the main thread that admissions for PhD is horribly competitive. Professors have to fight for students when making admissions decisions and the focus is very much on "fit" nowadays. The process takes a lot of persistence and drive...and time. So you want to make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, especially that the application itself is like a part-time job on top of your schoolwork and activities!

Breathe... and good luck!

[amanda1655]

I have to disagree a bit with ticklemepick on GPA. The hard numbers of your application play an interesting role in the application process. They will NOT guarantee someone an acceptance into a PhD program but they can keep someone out. When I was an undergraduate, my professors told me to aim for a 3.75 GPA if I wanted to be admitted to a top program, i.e. Yale, Harvard, Michigan, UCLA, Berkeley, etc. Anything above that was gravy.

After someone has met the general requirements, the factors that the other posters mentioned come into play. I had a 3.94 Undergraduate GPA, a 4.0 Master's GPA, and a 670 on the Verbal (93%). I consider myself an average candidate, not an excellent one. There are so many people with almost perfect scores that it becomes easy to cut someone with a low GPA or low GRE scores, especially if you have 800 applicants and 25 spots.

That said, it's not impossible to get admitted to a graduate program with a low GPA. You just face a harder battle. You have to prove that you are indeed a better candidate and fit than the person with better stats. People with a 3.6 and a 1350 on the GRE have been accepted over someone with a 3.9 and a 1450.

BTW, no one ever asked me about GPA either but I think that may have been because the people I was speaking with assumed that I would have a relatively high GPA and GRE scores.

[bleistift]

I can't say for sure exactly how important your GPA would be, but I do know that as a sophomore you don't have to worry too much. As a sophomore I had a 3.3 cumulative GPA as well (due primarily to the fact that I was an engineering major until 1.5 years in), and also a 3.7 History GPA. By the time I graduated, I had a 3.65 cumulative GPA and a 3.80 History GPA, and I attend a top 5 school with fairly tough grading as well. Basically, the further you go into college, the more "specialized" courses you will take. You'll clear your prerequisites, which you may not find interesting, and you'll have access to upper division and graduate level coursework which you'll just love. And as we all know, interest is directly correlated with grades. I still watched my grades because I knew I'd need a high GPA for grad school, but my interest in the subject matter usually was good enough to get the As and A-s.

[geigwm6]

Now when you all talk about GPA are you talking about your major GPA or cumulative? because I see there is a very large disparity between the two. My History GPA will hopefully be in the 3.7-3.8 range, but my cumulative is marred by some poor grades in my math/science classes.

Are Masters programs easier to get into? I talked to some of my advisers about them, and it seems as though it would serve to help bolster your credentials before applying to a Ph.D program and not get "stuck" in a field that did hold your interest.

Unfortunately the one professor who I talk to a lot, have taken several classes with, and who already had wrote me a recommendation, AND who went to the school that I would really like to go to in the field that I am interested in is apparently leaving

Thank you so much everyone, all of this is so helpful. I have been scouring the internet for weeks looking for this information!

[amanda1655]

I think both are important but your history GPA is more important. As someone looking at an application, however, I would be concerned if there was a large gap between someone's cumulative GPA and their major GPA. To me, it would raise a question about the rigor of their undergraduate major if their major GPA there were substantially higher. I would also wonder about their ability to understand the statistical theory necessary to understand some historical articles (if the weakness was in math). I don't know you nor have I seen your transcript so these concerns may be mute. All of them could also be addressed by the quality of your writing sample, your LORs, and your SOP.

In general, Master's programs are easier to get into than PhD programs.  One caveat there, funding at the MA level (although possible) is hard to find than it is at the PhD level.

Also, you may want to start looking into possible PhD programs. Personally, I would aim for the top 50 departments if you want to have a better chance of finding a job afterwards. 40% of all European history PhDs are not employed in T-T positions (I don't know the number for American historians, although I would assume that the percentage of unemployed PhDs is higher in that field). The number drops to 20% at the top 10 schools. It is probably 50% or higher at the lower-ranked schools.

[historygirl]

The professor that is leaving can still be a reference. Speak to him before he leaves, mention you will be applying in the fall, and ask if you can use him as a reference. If he agrees, get contact information that will be valid in the fall. It's done all the time - don't worry about it.

[bleistift]

Your cumulative GPA will rise. It's a mathematical inevitability as a greater percentage of your coursework will be history classes, for which you have a higher GPA. By the time you graduate the two will be similar.

And I also disagree about the discrepancy between cumulative and major GPA. Almost all of my friends had higher major GPAs than cumulative GPAs. This includes electrical engineers and computer scientists who took the easiest general education courses they could find. It's just a matter of what interests you and what your strengths are. Your history GPA is the one that will matter when you apply. None of my professors said "oh, you got a B- in Calculus, I have to question your future potential as a historian."

[amanda1655]

No one may care about a B- but a D or an F may matter.

I'm sorry but I think we are deluding ourselves if we think that our overall GPA doesn't matter. If they really didn't care, they wouldn't ask for both on the application form. They would only ask for your major GPA. Berkeley also asks on their application form for upper division GPA, which would theoretically include classes in philosophy, literature, etc.

Your GPA matters. The higher it is the better. Why would I admit someone who hasn't done spectacular in their undergraduate courses?

[redwine]

Hi - as someone who did not do my undergrad in the US but who got got offers for my PhD at US schools this time round I thought I could offer some insight into what admission committees value - if only because they naturally had to overlook some things in my application which were different to a US application and if they were willing to do so, it suggests these things aren't so important.

In terms of cumulative GPA v. history GPA - I expect they look at certain subjects but aren't so bothered by others. So history obviously is the most important, but possibly languages too - I know everywhere I applied wanted to know my marks in Russian, as I study Russian history and its very important I speak the language. I expect they also took note of my French marks (I did both languages at university) when evaluating my ability to fulfill the language requirements. I did no maths or anything though (not a requirement where I;m from) and I was concerned about this, so emailed some schools when I was applying. They said unless I was applying to do hardcore economic history they really couldn't care less! Same went for the quant GRE results, which I did fine in but was paranoid as about before I applied because I haven't done maths since I was 15

As indicated above, I reiterate the need to learn languages - this definitely helped my application. When I was writing last year to various departments, I didn't mention my language proficiencies in the first email (which was the 'Hi, my name is blah, I want to study with you' kind of email) Almost everyone wrote back saying 'Thats nice blah, you sound pleasant, but please note you absolutely must have decent Russian and French or German before we can accept you. If you do not, we suggest you take some time off to learn these languages and then apply.' Again, I know you want to do American history so it may not be crucial but places like Harvard etc say very clearly that for American you must have at least one and preferably two foreign languages up to scratch. And if you've checked out the practice language exams Harvard put online, you'll see you also have to be pretty good at them (I'm spending the next 6 months brushing up before I start my PhD, and I've been studying these languages for at least 5 years, French since I was 7 years old!) Apart from anything else you don't want to spend the first years of your PhD learning languages instead of reading history.

In the end, I think the strongest part of my application was my writing sample, and thats what everyone has commented on where I've been offered a place. It was a research paper (based on a longer thesis - which I offered to also provide and everywhere took me up on it) which I had worked on for 9 months and I think it was crucial to my application. They want to see you can write good history - whether you say you can or not. So write a senior thesis and try to make it really good! This went for my boyfriend too - he wrote what was (in my unbiased opinion!) an amazing senior thesis and it meant he was offered everywhere he applied - despite having low GREs. Everyone has commented to him in subsequent emails about his writing sample and how it clinched the deal for him.

Thats my 2 cents - hope it helps! Being an international I guess they may have given me leeway in terms of having no maths etc, but really I think they won't let in anyone if they don't fulfill the major criteria and I would say excellent writing sample, good grades in your important subjects, and near fluency in languages are most important - as well as good letters of recommendation too. The Statement of Purpose is obviously crucial too but best not worry about that til you're actually applying then get heaps of people (esp. Profs) to read it and comment on it for you!

[fizz]

Haha, I can contribute here. My history GPA was actually lower than my overall. Oh the shame. Boy THAT was embarrassing when I calculated those out. I'm a double major in History and Classics so in the end it was: 3.92 in Classics, 3.80 overall, 3.77 in History. Honestly, the only explanation I can think of is that I take much more challenging History classes than Latin classes. I'm pretty picky about only taking Classics classes that I know can do well in, whereas the vast majority of my History classes have been 300-level, and I tend to think much more in terms of the content I want to learn when choosing them.

But yeah. Oops. :mrgreen:

[RJR08]

As someone who has been through the process, I feel like it would be entirely misleading to even begin to determine the impact of one element of an application for a broad range of schools. Keep in mind that the evaluation process for each of these schools does differ. What is important then is not that you worry about one negative element, GRE's or GPA, especially one which you can do little or nothing about, but adjust the rest of your package to make your sell. Recommendations are key, but make sure the people who are vouching for you are people who are going to be respected by those evaluating your app. I agree with everything that has been said about writing samples. There is no other element of the application that will tell a school more about your potential than your basic style, it can also demonstrate whether or not you're actually ready to shoot for a PHD or whether you should maybe take some time to do an MA first. I really screwed up with my sample though- it was a solid piece of work, but unlike redwine, I never offered to give them the rest if they wanted it- there were 25 more pages to that baby! So don't fall into the trap of limitations if you have a longer work.

My GRE's were abhorrently low (I'm talking upper 500s on verbal here), but thanks to my research background, writing, and recs, no one cared because they knew I was qualified and I got accepted to any Ivy league program. The key is finding a way to show them that you have skills that can't be quantified.

I'm an Americanist (no Colonial hist here) so you can trust me when I say there is some ridiculous competition out there for US.