Rhet/Comp roundup

[runonsentence]

I just got my letter from Milwaukee, and while I have been admitted I didn't get any funding. Bummer.

Sorry to hear that!

[snappysorbet]

Hi rhet/comp friends! Here's a general question I'd like to get your feedback on. What is your sense of the differences between a "PhD in English with a concentration in Rhet/Comp" and a straight-up "PhD in Rhet/Comp"? Obviously this depends very much on individual programs, my areas of interest, faculty, etc, but I'd love to get your input on the general differences you've noticed between these types of programs, and especially the ways that potential job placement (always in the back of my mind) might change depending on which degree I will ultimately have. Basically, I have a decision to make, and I want to get as much input as possible from people with different perspectives and experiences, so any help would be appreciated!

[RockDenali]

Hi rhet/comp friends! Here's a general question I'd like to get your feedback on. What is your sense of the differences between a "PhD in English with a concentration in Rhet/Comp" and a straight-up "PhD in Rhet/Comp"? Obviously this depends very much on individual programs, my areas of interest, faculty, etc, but I'd love to get your input on the general differences you've noticed between these types of programs, and especially the ways that potential job placement (always in the back of my mind) might change depending on which degree I will ultimately have. Basically, I have a decision to make, and I want to get as much input as possible from people with different perspectives and experiences, so any help would be appreciated!

Depends on the program. (Just like a rhetorician to answer, "It depends"!) Personally, I think the best option, if you really want to be trained as a rhetorician or compositionist, is to find a department dedicated solely to that function. There are exceptions, of course: Penn State and Purdue come to mind. But at those programs, the rhetoric emphasis seems nearly to function as its own autonomous entity. But with the programs I researched, contacted, and visited, the ones that most impressed me were the free-standing rhetoric or writing departments.

I'm trying to decide between Syracuse and Minnesota; both programs are housed in departments dedicated solely to rhetoric/composition. I did my MA in a traditional English Department which housed literature, TESL, and rhetoric . . . Guess what most of the students were studying and where most of the funding and support went? I'll give you a hint: not rhetoric.

At Case Western, only 20% of the students are pursuing the Writing History and Theory emphasis (their version of rhet/comp). I would assume that, in most English departments with a rhet/comp emphasis, the statistic won't change too much. Do you really want to be in that situation? I know I personally would not. Rhetoric and composition is really its own discipline, linked more closely, in my mind, to applied linguistics than literature. At my MA institution, I know I did better work when paired up with TESL folk than with literature folk.

[runonsentence]

Well I think we're just going to confuse you, because I have a different perspective.

As to your original question, "concentration in" vs. rhet/comp degree, I think that the main difference has to do with how many courses you actually take in your area. For instance, my current institution is a mixed department, and if I stay I'd be asked to make one exam area a lit area, and then choose rhet/comp areas for the other two (that is, choose between reading lists for rhet theory, disciplinarity, or comp history, pedagogy, and/or theory, etc.). Personally I like the idea of still maintaining an area in lit. I enjoy looking at texts with a rhetorical lens, and I want to be well-rounded enough to possibly teach lit courses in addition to comp/rhet (which would definitely happen if I were to teach at a small school).

Depends on the program. (Just like a rhetorician to answer, "It depends"!) Personally, I think the best option, if you really want to be trained as a rhetorician or compositionist, is to find a department dedicated solely to that function. There are exceptions, of course: Penn State and Purdue come to mind. But at those programs, the rhetoric emphasis seems nearly to function as its own autonomous entity. But with the programs I researched, contacted, and visited, the ones that most impressed me were the free-standing rhetoric or writing departments.

I'm trying to decide between Syracuse and Minnesota; both programs are housed in departments dedicated solely to rhetoric/composition. I did my MA in a traditional English Department which housed literature, TESL, and rhetoric . . . Guess what most of the students were studying and where most of the funding and support went? I'll give you a hint: not rhetoric.

At Case Western, only 20% of the students are pursuing the Writing History and Theory emphasis (their version of rhet/comp). I would assume that, in most English departments with a rhet/comp emphasis, the statistic won't change too much. Do you really want to be in that situation? I know I personally would not. Rhetoric and composition is really its own discipline, linked more closely, in my mind, to applied linguistics than literature. At my MA institution, I know I did better work when paired up with TESL folk than with literature folk.

I'm kind of the opposite—I actually don't want to attend a free-standing department as much as a mixed department. A free-standing department certainly has the benefits of support and helping you to develop a strong sense of disciplinarity, but I personally think that it's valuable to study in a place where you're always learning to translate what you do for the creative writers, literary scholars, and others that we rub elbows with in a mixed department. In a free-standing department (or so my advisor told me), one learns to think and speak in a slightly different way, and builds a strong sense of disciplinary identity. There's nothing wrong with that, but as I find it highly unlikely I'd end up in a teaching position in a free-standing department, I like the idea of getting mixed perspectives from classmates while doing my coursework.

[Chris83]

Hi rhet/comp friends! Here's a general question I'd like to get your feedback on. What is your sense of the differences between a "PhD in English with a concentration in Rhet/Comp" and a straight-up "PhD in Rhet/Comp"? Obviously this depends very much on individual programs, my areas of interest, faculty, etc, but I'd love to get your input on the general differences you've noticed between these types of programs, and especially the ways that potential job placement (always in the back of my mind) might change depending on which degree I will ultimately have. Basically, I have a decision to make, and I want to get as much input as possible from people with different perspectives and experiences, so any help would be appreciated!

I think it depends from program to program, but I'll echo what's been said here and say that the first big difference tends to be whether or not you have to comp in a lit area. What's your ultimate goal after the PhD? What kinds of programs would you like to teach in, and what kinds of courses do you want to teach? I think that's something you need to ask yourself, and then you need to look at the placement data for the schools you're considering. There's something to be said for being able to go out on the job market being able to teach a variety of courses (including literature) even if these courses are not all areas where you'd likely concentrate your research. On the other hand, many people think that the tides are turning and a literature background might add nothing to your profile when you go out on the market. It depends.

This is one of the things that's also weighing on my mind as I try to make a decision.

[RockDenali]

Well I think we're just going to confuse you, because I have a different perspective.

As to your original question, "concentration in" vs. rhet/comp degree, I think that the main difference has to do with how many courses you actually take in your area. For instance, my current institution is a mixed department, and if I stay I'd be asked to make one exam area a lit area, and then choose rhet/comp areas for the other two (that is, choose between reading lists for rhet theory, disciplinarity, or comp history, pedagogy, and/or theory, etc.). Personally I like the idea of still maintaining an area in lit. I enjoy looking at texts with a rhetorical lens, and I want to be well-rounded enough to possibly teach lit courses in addition to comp/rhet (which would definitely happen if I were to teach at a small school).

I'm kind of the opposite—I actually don't want to attend a free-standing department as much as a mixed department. A free-standing department certainly has the benefits of support and helping you to develop a strong sense of disciplinarity, but I personally think that it's valuable to study in a place where you're always learning to translate what you do for the creative writers, literary scholars, and others that we rub elbows with in a mixed department. In a free-standing department (or so my advisor told me), one learns to think and speak in a slightly different way, and builds a strong sense of disciplinary identity. There's nothing wrong with that, but as I find it highly unlikely I'd end up in a teaching position in a free-standing department, I like the idea of getting mixed perspectives from classmates while doing my coursework.

This is definitely a good point to consider!

[snappysorbet]

This is definitely a good point to consider!

I'm GLAD you guys all have different perspectives... that's *exactly* what I was hoping for, so I can use your input to really think critically about what I want, and what program will provide that. And this is why I love this site.

[grifter]

I'm GLAD you guys all have different perspectives... that's *exactly* what I was hoping for, so I can use your input to really think critically about what I want, and what program will provide that. And this is why I love this site.

The "career goals" suggestion seconded--take in to account your professional goals. As a generalist by nature, I love the interplay between the different focuses, and appreciated being in a "mixed" atmosphere, but I can also see the distinct advantage of the other situation. BTW, Nice work on UNC-Greensboro. I would go there just to hang with Hephzi Roskelly. She's a gem.

[lcampb]

Hi rhet/comp friends! Here's a general question I'd like to get your feedback on. What is your sense of the differences between a "PhD in English with a concentration in Rhet/Comp" and a straight-up "PhD in Rhet/Comp"? Obviously this depends very much on individual programs, my areas of interest, faculty, etc, but I'd love to get your input on the general differences you've noticed between these types of programs, and especially the ways that potential job placement (always in the back of my mind) might change depending on which degree I will ultimately have. Basically, I have a decision to make, and I want to get as much input as possible from people with different perspectives and experiences, so any help would be appreciated!

As someone who's currently in a "Language and Rhetoric" concentration that's part of a larger English PhD program, I'll weigh in in support of being in a larger department. As a caveat, I am in the first year of the program, so this is mostly just from observation, but it seems like since Comp/Rhet students are in the minority in my program, the opportunities to be involved in first year writing and other composition initiatives are much greater. From what I've seen, the upper-level comp/rhet students (pretty much all of them) are the one's running TA training, running the writing center, contributing to the Intro to Composition textbook, etc. In the big picture of what gets you jobs, I'm guessing that these kinds of leadership roles play a part, and they're certainly less competitive when you're a minority in the department. That said, I usually have less classes to choose from that are specifically Rhet/Comp focused, which is certainly a disadvantage. My program also only had one core requirement so I'm not being forced to take a lot of literature classes that are less relevant to my interests. For rhet/comp programs housed in English, make sure to take into consideration how many literature classes the program requires as part of your decision as well.

Edited March 18, 2011 by lcampb

[runonsentence]

As someone who's currently in a "Language and Rhetoric" concentration that's part of a larger English PhD program, I'll weigh in in support of being in a larger department. As a caveat, I am in the first year of the program, so this is mostly just from observation, but it seems like since Comp/Rhet students are in the minority in my program, the opportunities to be involved in first year writing and other composition initiatives are much greater. From what I've seen, the upper-level comp/rhet students (pretty much all of them) are the one's running TA training, running the writing center, contributing to the Intro to Composition textbook, etc. In the big picture of what gets you jobs, I'm guessing that these kinds of leadership roles play a part, and they're certainly less competitive when you're a minority in the department. That said, I usually have less classes to choose from that are specifically Rhet/Comp focused, which is certainly a disadvantage. My program also only had one core requirement so I'm not being forced to take a lot of literature classes that are less relevant to my interests. For rhet/comp programs housed in English, make sure to take into consideration how many literature classes the program requires as part of your decision as well.

I've found this to be the case, as well. Because the rhet/comp track at my department is still growing, I've had a lot of doors for extra leadership and administrative roles open up for me, just as an MA student (CV line, cha ching!).

And yes, the point about coursework is a good one to mention. Definitely a consideration when you compare programs, to see how often comp/rhet courses are offered. I really like the kinds of courses the small rhet/comp faculty here teaches, so it's not an issue for me to get coursework I'd like, but it could be an issue if I were at a similarly small program with faculty with different research interests.

[runonsentence]

*bump

So, how has everyone's application season been winding down?

[ComeBackZinc]

I didn't read this website or any others while I was waiting to hear back from schools, on the the theory that it wouldn't change what happened and that I'd drive myself crazy. I was rejected early from University of Illinois-Chicago; I communicated a little with Ralph Cintron, which was a thrill, but it was clear that I wasn't what they were looking for, so I wasn't surprised. I was a bit surprised to be rejected (quite late in the process) from Illinois-Urbana/Champaign, for a variety of reasons. But I was accepted to Purdue with 5 years of funding last Friday, via email, and that was my top choice, so I'm just ecstatic. Been hard to concentrate on finishing out the semester the last few days, both in terms of my own work and the classes I'm teaching.

[runonsentence]

Nice to meet you, ComeBackZinc!

I have a friend at Purdue who did her master's with me. They have a great program.

Out of 10 apps, I ended up with three rejections (no surprise on any of them, especially MSU which probably was the worst in terms of fit), four waitlists, and three accepts (though no word on funding from Georgia State). It was a tough decision, and I had to turn down the Chancellor's Grad Award plus some extras I didn't even ask for when I turned down my offer at Milwaukee (that was tough), but I'm very excited to have accepted Cincinnati's offer!

Senioritis is the worst. Plus, I'm on the quarter system right now, so we're only in week 3 of 10. Looooong way to go.

[SeattleTri]

I just accepted at RCTE at U of A--anyone else accept there? I also turned down Virginia Tech (Rhet/Writing) and Arizona State (Rhet/Comp) for any waitlisters. Cheers to everyone on your acceptances!

[grifter]

I just accepted at RCTE at U of A--anyone else accept there? I also turned down Virginia Tech (Rhet/Writing) and Arizona State (Rhet/Comp) for any waitlisters. Cheers to everyone on your acceptances!

Nice! I had to turn down the RCTE offer (with heavy heart) due to some health concerns associated with living in Tucson. They are truly fantastic people there, and I am excited for you--shame we won't be in the same cohort.

I accepted at Oregon, which has a far more understated comp/rhet presence than does Arizona, but I think the opportunities for administrative experience will be less competitive. Plus, John Gage is there and he is all shades of badass.

[SeattleTri]

Nice! I had to turn down the RCTE offer (with heavy heart) due to some health concerns associated with living in Tucson. They are truly fantastic people there, and I am excited for you--shame we won't be in the same cohort.

I accepted at Oregon, which has a far more understated comp/rhet presence than does Arizona, but I think the opportunities for administrative experience will be less competitive. Plus, John Gage is there and he is all shades of badass.

Cheers, grifter. All the luck in the world to you, the University of Oregon is a great institution and Eugene is a hell of a place to be.

[RockDenali]

Nice! I had to turn down the RCTE offer (with heavy heart) due to some health concerns associated with living in Tucson. They are truly fantastic people there, and I am excited for you--shame we won't be in the same cohort.

I accepted at Oregon, which has a far more understated comp/rhet presence than does Arizona, but I think the opportunities for administrative experience will be less competitive. Plus, John Gage is there and he is all shades of badass.

Hey Grifter. I think I snabbed your RCTE spot They emailed me yesterday with a fully-funded offer . . . about 4 weeks after I accepted at Syracuse. Oh well. I'll sleep on it for a few days . . . I'd look like a total ass backing out of Syracuse at this point.

Have fun studying with Gage! In the Arresting Eye is still one of my favorite books on rhetoric and poetics.

[SeattleTri]

Hey Grifter. I think I snabbed your RCTE spot They emailed me yesterday with a fully-funded offer . . . about 4 weeks after I accepted at Syracuse. Oh well. I'll sleep on it for a few days . . . I'd look like a total ass backing out of Syracuse at this point.

Have fun studying with Gage! In the Arresting Eye is still one of my favorite books on rhetoric and poetics.

RockDenali--congratulations on your acceptance to UA RCTE! Glad to see one of my future cohort on here. See you in Tucson in August.

[grifter]

Hey Grifter. I think I snabbed your RCTE spot They emailed me yesterday with a fully-funded offer . . . about 4 weeks after I accepted at Syracuse. Oh well. I'll sleep on it for a few days . . . I'd look like a total ass backing out of Syracuse at this point.

Have fun studying with Gage! In the Arresting Eye is still one of my favorite books on rhetoric and poetics.

Well done with Syracuse, Rock--that's a quality program. Seems like you have some good choices--best of luck either way.