Princeton: Woodrow Wilson School

[Sachin]

Hi Everyone,

Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School seems like a top program. What accounts for their relative lower rank in US News? It doesn't appear to match up with its arguably higher reputation?

Is my perception of WWS incorrect? Thoughts?

Thanks.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Sachin

[PeterQuince]

Hi Everyone,

Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School seems like a top program. What accounts for their relative lower rank in US News? It doesn't appear to match up with its arguably higher reputation?

Is my perception of WWS incorrect? Thoughts?

Thanks.

First, I think Princeton is tied for 4th with the University of Georgia, so I wouldn't call that a "relatively lower rank" given that it beats out Goldman (UC Berkeley), Ford (UMich), USC, etc. You can't get much higher than 4th. Georgetown's PPI (which so many on these boards are clamoring to get into) is 14th. There are dozens and dozens of schools ranked. When you say relatively lower rank, do you mean on the overall (4th) or on individual specialties?

I'm not sure how much this matters, but Princeton is also quite small compared to many other policy/administration/public affairs programs. The MPA (and mid-career MPP for lawyers) is really the only professional program at Princeton, whereas many other schools (like Harvard, Chicago, etc.) can foster collaboration between multiple professional schools, cross-list courses, and attract talented instructors who come to teach one subject (law, finance, etc.) and get involved in affiliated programs (policy, environmental management, etc.). It's hard to do that with a school the size of Princeton, and its smallness has other benefits: smaller cohorts, more individualized attention, etc. But the size may be a factor: there is only so much WWS can offer. But at an enormous policy school that offers everything under the sun, there is only so much a student can ever take advantage of. Can't do everything.

[smerd]

Bottom line, I wouldn't put too much faith in the U.S. News rankings in general, and especially not with rankings for a small subset of graduate programs (rankings that are 3 years old now too). Princeton is one of the top handful of MPP (and MPA) programs. It has a fantastic reputation and it pays for most of its student to attend, which is why it has an acceptance rate somewhere below 10%. Coincidentally, there was a malcolm gladwell article that just came out detailing exactly how arbitrary college rankings are (let alone MPP rankings). http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_gladwell

[JBrodsky]

My two cents:

The US news rankings are worthless. When I was working in NYC and DC, senior people with whom I worked generally considered SAIS, SFS, HKS, SIPA, WWS, and Fletcher to be in the top tier for international policy/etc, but it varied widely once you drilled down to specific fields. Lots of other schools out there are great, especially if you know you're going into security, quant-based policy analysis, or what have you, and can chose based on school strengths. Internationally, it seems that overall school name means more than anything else. When I was in China, everyone thought (assumed) HKS was the best, and rated Yale, Columbia, and Princeton highly as well.

As for Princeton specifically, I think it might have a little less brand recognition due to the relatively smaller alumni base. In that respect, it's not unlike Stanford Business School. Both seem to do rather well despite that.

Bottom line, all policy schools have strengths and weaknesses. While you could probably identify a top tier (sort of), the utility of that is difficult to really quantify. Despite this, I imagine that most people would consider WWS a top program (some in Washington think that it is THE top policy program).

[mppgal55]

I was talking to a professor here about this the other day, and his insight was that WWS has no faculty specifically for the MPA program. At schools like CMU and Ford, we have a lot of professors that are "owned" by the policy school. At WWS, they bring professors from other departments on campus to teach policy courses, and don't "own" any. This likely affects specialty rankings quite a bit.

That said, WWS is extremely well-connected, it is highly regarded in DC (and Princeton is highly regarded globally), and they pay for you.

It's easy to get caught up in the rankings - we all do for a little bit - but fit is important, and once you get in, that will be the decision-maker. Visit the schools. WWS, Heinz, Harris, and Syracuse all have extremely different feels, and different types of students will feel at home in each of those places. You have to find the program that matches you.

[tj19]

Dear God, FOURTH! The tragedy. The horror.

[greendiplomat]

Dear God, FOURTH! The tragedy. The horror.

To play devil's advocate here, I think that Princeton's reputation is slightly inflated in admissions boards like these, due to its "desirability" to applicants as THE school to get into (mighty low admit rate and abundance of funding, both arguably due to small class size), and, as such, I don't think placing Princeton at #4 isn't that questionable.

Given the above, I think the question should be why schools like Syracuse and Indiana-Bloomington place above/among the likes of HKS and WWS (N.B.: Not arguing that these are bad programs; just not as highly regarded from within the public policy space). The answer there would be super arbitrary methodology and lack of input from established professionals and academics in the public policy space.

[MaxwellAlum]

As a student at the "number 1 ranked public affairs program" I'd say that the rankings are a good tool for identifying strong programs, especially those in lesser known schools. I know I wouldn't have otherwise thought to look at the Maxwell School (Syracuse). However, it does not make sense to choose Maxwell over Harvard purely because of the rankings. For that, they are really meaningless. Nobody is going to hire you because a magazine rated your grad program number 1 and not number 2.

The MPA program at the Maxwell School is really great. I suspect the ranking comes from both the fact that it is a strong program, and that it's also the oldest one. Maxwell alumni are everywhere in DC and that can really mean a lot.

But while my classmates are amazing people with very strong resumes and a passionate commitment to public service, I know that it's harder to get into Harvard, Columbia and definitely Princeton. So those schools probably have stronger reputations than Maxwell in most circles (most notably, I imagine, in the private sector). There is a definite advantage to studying with the very best of the best, and Princeton is probably the place for this.

At the end of the day the Maxwell School is the perfect place for me for reasons that have little to do with rankings. Look at rankings when you're choosing which schools to apply to (alongside the Foreign Policy magazine rankings if you're interested in international stuff), but also think about what the best fit is for you.

Edited February 15, 2011 by SyracuseStudent