Chances at Princeton and Harvard MPP

[adollarninetynine]

Hey guys,

I was wondering what would be my chances of getting into either of these programs? I have a 770 Quant/ 740 Verbal with a 3.8 GPA with a degree in accounting. I am definitely sure that I will have a very diverse and interesting application due to my personal background. However, I have zero years of full-time work experience since I am an international student studying in the U.S. I am also applying for a law degree in the top ten schools since I received an LSAT of 172. Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

[2011fall]

Hey guys,

I was wondering what would be my chances of getting into either of these programs? I have a 770 Quant/ 740 Verbal with a 3.8 GPA with a degree in accounting. I am definitely sure that I will have a very diverse and interesting application due to my personal background. However, I have zero years of full-time work experience since I am an international student studying in the U.S. I am also applying for a law degree in the top ten schools since I received an LSAT of 172. Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

Unless you strongly persuade them why you change your academic direction and what you want to achieve with the two degrees (accounting and MPP). i would say.

[greendiplomat]

Unless you strongly persuade them why you change your academic direction and what you want to achieve with the two degrees (accounting and MPP). i would say.

Right; I agree. You have the numbers to stand a chance (though, from the limited information that you've given, I can't guarantee that you've shown your econ/quant prowess), but the reason why they want work experience is to demonstrate that you have direction. If you've demonstrated exceptional interest (as well as leadership) in public service through academics, extracurriculars, and internships, I think you have a chance.

Edited February 14, 2011 by greendiplomat

[kaka]

Right; I agree. You have the numbers to stand a chance (though, from the limited information that you've given, I can't guarantee that you've shown your econ/quant prowess), but the reason why they want work experience is to demonstrate that you have direction. If you've demonstrated exceptional interest (as well as leadership) in public service through academics, extracurriculars, and internships, I think you have a chance.

Hi ,

I think we should be truthful to people and tell them some facts even though we are not the final decision makers.

I spoke with Princeton and the HKS admissions office several times anonymously.Each time, they told me they reject more people with perfect scores due to other things.

GRE is the last thing adcom considers.The guy has good GRE scores but he has not shown any interest in Economics, Statistics and Mathematics.He is very weak in these areas.

GRE quant of 770 can not be substituted for econometrics, statistics and mathematics which are essential to the MPP and MPA programs.He doesnt have them. Secondly, you all agree with me that work experience has more weight than GRE. Don't deceive the guy, advice him to go for work experience plus some econ classes.

Dont just tell him he has a chance because he has 770 qant GRE.I am sorry to say that but trust me an applicant with a 720 GRE quant score and a bachelor's degree in economics plus 2years working esperience is stronger than the accounting degree with 770 and no work experience.Go and check princeton's admitted students online, you will be shocked to see admitted students with GRE quant score of 500 cus they have Work experience. For your information, a 3.3 GPA in Econ is stronger to MPA adcom than a 3.8 GPA in accounting

I am sorry... the truth hurts.

Edited February 15, 2011 by kaka

[adollarninetynine]

what about finance courses? can these count as quantitative classes?

[greendiplomat]

Hi ,

I think we should be truthful to people and tell them some facts even though we are not the final decision makers.

I spoke with Princeton and the HKS admissions office several times anonymously.Each time, they told me they reject more people with perfect scores due to other things.

GRE is the last thing adcom considers.The guy has good GRE scores but he has not shown any interest in Economics, Statistics and Mathematics.He is very weak in these areas.

GRE quant of 770 can not be substituted for econometrics, statistics and mathematics which are essential to the MPP and MPA programs.He doesnt have them. Secondly, you all agree with me that work experience has more weight than GRE. Don't deceive the guy, advice him to go for work experience plus some econ classes.

Dont just tell him he has a chance because he has 770 qant GRE.I am sorry to say that but trust me an applicant with a 720 GRE quant score and a bachelor's degree in economics plus 2years working esperience is stronger than the accounting degree with 770 and no work experience.Go and check princeton's admitted students online, you will be shocked to see admitted students with GRE quant score of 500 cus they have Work experience. For your information, a 3.3 GPA in Econ is stronger to MPA adcom than a 3.8 GPA in accounting

I am sorry... the truth hurts.

Wow, why so bitter?

I never said that he's a shoo-in because of his GRE scores (I think it goes without saying that GRE scores alone will get him in, without having to speak to the ad comm); all I said is that he has "a chance" (i.e. that it's worth trying), which is why I went the constructive route of asking him what econ/quant classes he has and telling him that the most important thing for someone coming directly out of undergrad is for them to show direction/initiative.

On that note, though, this coming from someone that applied directly out of undergrad and ended up deferring for a year primarily for personal reasons, even if you're as decided on your academic/professional path as I was coming out of undergrad, taking even just a year off does to work full-time with a relevant organization makes a world of difference both in terms of what you'll learn and what professional connections you'll make (e.g. I've learned more about domestic climate policy than I would have in a semester-long class at SIPA, and I already have an implicit job offer for after I graduate). I just noticed that you indicate that you're applying to JD, MPP, and MBA programs on your info, so, given that information, regardless of whether you'll get into these programs or not, I think it would be best to take some time to find out what it is that you really want. Even if you do get in to the most selective program, whatever prestige that these programs will afford you is definitely not worth the debt that you're getting yourself into if it's not going to get you where you want.

To answer your question, adollarninetynine, the quant classes that HKS's MPP program "prefers" are "some college-level economics, statistics, and mathematics", and, while it will help prove your ability, none of the programs at HKS (not even MPA-ID) actually require you to have taken econometrics, contrary to what kaka says. Since the econ requirements at MPP programs are roughly equivalent to the intermediate level classes that you'll take as an undergrad in economics major, the classes that'll make you a solid candidate would be Intro Micro & Macro (if not Intermediate), Intro Statistics w/ Calc, and Calculus III, though obviously the more the better (though until a certain point... if you have a grad degree's worth of econ by the time you enter, you'll need to prove that why actually need the MPP). Though the HKS page that I linked doesn't make the above classes a firm requirement, I'd say you'd have to prove your quantitative ability otherwise if you don't have them (if not take them somewhere after you get your bachelor's).

[JBrodsky]

Wow, why so bitter?

I never said that he's a shoo-in because of his GRE scores (I think it goes without saying that GRE scores alone will get him in, without having to speak to the ad comm); all I said is that he has "a chance" (i.e. that it's worth trying), which is why I went the constructive route of asking him what econ/quant classes he has and telling him that the most important thing for someone coming directly out of undergrad is for them to show direction/initiative.

On that note, though, this coming from someone that applied directly out of undergrad and ended up deferring for a year primarily for personal reasons, even if you're as decided on your academic/professional path as I was coming out of undergrad, taking even just a year off does to work full-time with a relevant organization makes a world of difference both in terms of what you'll learn and what professional connections you'll make (e.g. I've learned more about domestic climate policy than I would have in a semester-long class at SIPA, and I already have an implicit job offer for after I graduate). I just noticed that you indicate that you're applying to JD, MPP, and MBA programs on your info, so, given that information, regardless of whether you'll get into these programs or not, I think it would be best to take some time to find out what it is that you really want. Even if you do get in to the most selective program, whatever prestige that these programs will afford you is definitely not worth the debt that you're getting yourself into if it's not going to get you where you want.

To answer your question, adollarninetynine, the quant classes that HKS's MPP program "prefers" are "some college-level economics, statistics, and mathematics", and, while it will help prove your ability, none of the programs at HKS (not even MPA-ID) actually require you to have taken econometrics, contrary to what kaka says. Since the econ requirements at MPP programs are roughly equivalent to the intermediate level classes that you'll take as an undergrad in economics major, the classes that'll make you a solid candidate would be Intro Micro & Macro (if not Intermediate), Intro Statistics w/ Calc, and Calculus III, though obviously the more the better (though until a certain point... if you have a grad degree's worth of econ by the time you enter, you'll need to prove that why actually need the MPP). Though the HKS page that I linked doesn't make the above classes a firm requirement, I'd say you'd have to prove your quantitative ability otherwise if you don't have them (if not take them somewhere after you get your bachelor's).

Trust me, while it is of course helpful to have such classes, HKS preferences for quant aren't nearly as hard and fast as some of the above posters mentioned. That may be less true for WWS; I'm less familiar with that program. Do such courses matter? Yes. Can you get in without (all of) them? Yes. Feel free to PM me if you want more specifics.

What's more realistic is to say that in the absence of work experience, not having such courses may count against you more, or there might not be something on your resume to counterbalance them (yet). However, if you have stellar attributes in other ways, it certainly isn't impossible. It's just difficult for anyone on here to give you meaningful advice without knowing more than merely your scores.

Oh, and finance courses aren't substitutes for econ and cal, of course, but they certainly don't hurt.

[kaka]

Trust me, while it is of course helpful to have such classes, HKS preferences for quant aren't nearly as hard and fast as some of the above posters mentioned. That may be less true for WWS; I'm less familiar with that program. Do such courses matter? Yes. Can you get in without (all of) them? Yes. Feel free to PM me if you want more specifics.

What's more realistic is to say that in the absence of work experience, not having such courses may count against you more, or there might not be something on your resume to counterbalance them (yet). However, if you have stellar attributes in other ways, it certainly isn't impossible. It's just difficult for anyone on here to give you meaningful advice without knowing more than merely your scores.

Oh, and finance courses aren't substitutes for econ and cal, of course, but they certainly don't hurt.

I am sorry again but I am not bitter one bit. I just want you guys to be factual about circumstances since the guy really

needs help as to what to do to get into the programs of his choice.Finance can never be a substitute for Economics.

the closest finance to economics is financial economics or economics of finance,however, if someone has similar

credentials as you and he took development Economics when you did financial economics, I wonder why you would be

chosen before him.Make yourself as competitive as you can.

If the guy wants my honest advice,he should just get some working experience related to the field of public service and

then get some basic undergrad econ classes.The MPP/MPA's are professional programs so they want people that have

been working in the field before and are convinced that they still want a career there. It's not about how you can break the GRE.

The WWS MPA did not even require GRE some time ago, which means that GRE is not a major factor, go and do peace corp job in a

developing country,Volunteer with the UN,or maybe consulting in the public office of a private company, You will be soo attractive to any HKS programs.

You can check the STATS of students at princeton to verify what I am saying

http://wws.princeton...book/index.html

Edited February 15, 2011 by kaka

[JBrodsky]

To be fair to Kaka, it appears that he/she is in the MPA/ID program, which is a whole different matter. I was assuming that you were talking about the MPP/MPA. My apologies if not. And Kaka's general point about the strong desirability of work experience is also true. However, HKS, and to a lesser extent, Princeton, both let in a few outstanding people straight from undergrad. I've had friends do it. Some feel they would have gotten more out of it with work experience, but that's a different question.

Edited February 15, 2011 by JBrodsky

[adollarninetynine]

Thanks for your help guys. For what it is worth, my resume is entirely in the field of public interest and service and i will have taken a year off when I apply this coming fall. the problem is i don't have "full time working experience" because my visa limits the time i can work. I have taken introductory micro and macroeconomics, statistics, and calculus during undergrad. I am mainly want to do a JD/MPP program. Preferably Columbia/HKS dual program.

[kaka]

Thanks for your help guys. For what it is worth, my resume is entirely in the field of public interest and service and i will have taken a year off when I apply this coming fall. the problem is i don't have "full time working experience" because my visa limits the time i can work. I have taken introductory micro and macroeconomics, statistics, and calculus during undergrad. I am mainly want to do a JD/MPP program. Preferably Columbia/HKS dual program.

You are welcome and I can assure that you can achieve your HKS dreams if you get just two years of work experience since you already have the econ.

[kaka]

To be fair to Kaka, it appears that he/she is in the MPA/ID program, which is a whole different matter. I was assuming that you were talking about the MPP/MPA. My apologies if not. And Kaka's general point about the strong desirability of work experience is also true. However, HKS, and to a lesser extent, Princeton, both let in a few outstanding people straight from undergrad. I've had friends do it. Some feel they would have gotten more out of it with work experience, but that's a different question.

Why does it appear like I am already in the MPA/ID program?

[JBrodsky]

Why does it appear like I am already in the MPA/ID program?

It says "MPA/ID HARVARD" under your nickname. I just thought you were in since it only listed one program, rather than an array, and didn't have any of the "Applied.. Waitlisted...Accepted..." categories..

Ha. I didn't notice that it had your season of app on there too; my apologies.

Edited February 16, 2011 by JBrodsky