Decisions, Decisions (for historians)...

[barricades]

So, it seems that many of us have heard from some of the schools we've applied to. While I know that plenty of departments have yet to send out their offers, I don't think it's to early for us to start considering the ones we've received. I think this would be a nice place for those of us lucky enough to have received more than one offer to discuss our options. Honestly, while applying, waiting, and all that can be miserable, making a decision certainly isn't easy (at least for me!). I know there is a specific forum for this, but I do think the things we should take into consideration when making our choices are much different than what an engineering student (or even an English student) is worried about. So let's help one another out! I'm currently working on analyzing my proposals, so I'll post something up as soon as I have something more concrete.

Best!

[Guest]

Money of course is a big thing, especially for me since I went straight from undergrad to M.A. (within two weeks of graduation) so I have next to nothing in the way of savings. All of the places with major schools have pretty high costs of living, so I'm anxious as hell to see what the concrete financial offers are (why, why do you send things out by snail mail!?!).

But money aside, for my historical study I need a really strong language background, so that's tearing me up with school decisions. Medieval Japanese history is a VERY small field (the top researchers of it equal about... say four?), so with Michigan vs Harvard, for example, I'm trying to make a decision between working with a top researcher at Michigan or having a stellar classical asian language program at Harvard. This decision is going to be horrific and in the end I may have to just see what each school's atmosphere feels like.

Also, whether or not a researcher is going to spend a decent amount of time working with me is a big deal, having come from a small department background. While I understand that the top schools are going to be big as far as the mechanisms go and yes, I will be just another grad student in some regards, I'm very interested in how researchers/potential advisors treat me/contact me, especially via email right now-- if they bother to contact me at all, etc. (In one school out of my three so far I've gotten zero contact from the person I want to work with. Even when I emailed them for advice on whether or not I should apply back in the fall I got a one-line (and third person??) email.)

Sooo... visitors day is going to be a big thing for considering my options, i think. There's only so much financial offers and emails can tell you.

---

Applied: Harvard (Hist and East Asian Lang), Berkeley (Hist), Ohio State (Hist), UMichigan (Hist), Hawaii (Hist), Pittsburgh (Hist)

Accepted: Harvard, Berkeley, UMichigan

Rejected:

Edited February 25, 2011 by Paura

[Riotbeard]

My advice is to visit the schools and meet your adviser and some other professors. In my experience, a lot of schools will cover your travel and hotel costs. You need to go to the school and meet students and teachers to get a feel for the culture of department. And yes money means a lot. A lot stipends go less than you expect.

[barricades]

Absolutely visiting the schools that I'm interested in. At least the ones that are paying for my travel. I'm counting on these visits to really help with the decision.

And money is definitely something to consider. My two top choices have similar financial packages (one offers a little more than $3,000 than the other, and dental, but the other would probably level off if I TAd). My close third offers less, but they wrote that it would also significantly increase with any TA work I decided to do. I'm working on a pros and cons list, and also a list of questions to consider, and will probably post both on here.

Paura, I'm in a similar dilemma. One of the schools has a top-notch adviser I would love to work with, and they even have a second historian in the region and time period I'm interested in. But the other school seems to have greater depth in terms of faculty, and the department seems stronger in general. Plus, they have a ridiculous placement record (then again, so does the adviser at the other school). So I get the feeling that atmosphere will end up playing a significant role.

And I've also had similar musings about how potential advisers have contacted me. I do get the feeling that some of the more prestigious schools don't have to sell their fish as hard though, which is why they are probably not as assertive and outgoing.

[TransnationalHistory]

I do get the feeling that some of the more prestigious schools don't have to sell their fish as hard though, which is why they are probably not as assertive and outgoing.

I don't have much to base this on (just two schools) but of the two, it's actually the more prestigious school has been much more assertive in contacting me. I got a long and personalized email from a professor asking when they could call me, and then later I received an email (with an offer to talk on the phone) from a second professor in the department, plus they assigned a student finishing up her dissertation to contact me...and she really took a lot of time to answer any questions I had. Meanwhile, the other school just gave me a standard letter from the DGS. I emailed a few students there with some questions, but haven't heard back yet. I'm still keeping my mind open, and won't really be able to make a choice till I actually see the two programs in person, but this initial period does make me think the one department might be overall more supportive. But we'll see.

Also, only one school gave an informal offer of funding, while no word from the other school....though money is sorta the least important part to me, as long as it's adequate.

Edited February 25, 2011 by TransnationalHistory

[TransnationalHistory]

Bumping this since it seems more relevant at this stage...

[natsteel]

I don't have much to base this on (just two schools) but of the two, it's actually the more prestigious school has been much more assertive in contacting me. I got a long and personalized email from a professor asking when they could call me, and then later I received an email (with an offer to talk on the phone) from a second professor in the department, plus they assigned a student finishing up her dissertation to contact me...and she really took a lot of time to answer any questions I had.

I've had the exact same experience. The POI from the more prestigious school contacted me the first week of February and I also received emails from current grad students and other professors in the department. And then a few weeks later, my POI came out to dinner with me, my wife, and one of my mentors. All the tangible stuff like fellowships and the like are important, but I found that the feeling of being wanted was in some ways just as important.

[Phishyman22]

All the tangible stuff like fellowships and the like are important, but I found that the feeling of being wanted was in some ways just as important.

This. Definitely this.

Congrats on Yale!

[a piece of bread]

I've received 4 acceptances and 5 rejections out of 11 so far. In fact, I stopped waiting and decided on going to Princeton. To be honest, it was not the best fit considering my interests of area. I talked to a Prof. in the department and was encouraged to go there. It seems that I ended up with Princeton just for ranking and peacefullness of the city compared to NYC. Time will show us how correct my decision was. Good luck to everyone!

[Bukharan]

I am heading to Stanford.

It was my top choice when I was applying because of the faculty fit and (call me shallow but I spent almost a quarter of a century in Northern Europe so it's important) THE SUN, and I am so very happy to have an offer from them.

It is hard to reject Oxford as I also ditched a Masters offer from Cambridge last year for a better-funded offer elsewhere. Oxbridge is an old dream but it is not happening I guess... oh wait, postdocs are becoming a slave requirement for humanities Ph.Ds now, so who knows...

I can't wait to cross the Atlantic in September!

[Jeppe]

I accepted an offer from NYU the same day I got it. It was a pretty easy decision, as I basically had two schools at the top of my list, and the other one had rejected me the week before. After the prospective students weekend at NYU I felt very confident that it would be the best fit in terms of faculty strengths and general research interests. I work on early modern imperial history in the Atlantic, with a focus on legal and political issues, and I don't think that there are many places out there that do this as well as NYU, especially considering that Lauren Benton's work has been a key influence on the contours of my own project.

Geography also played a key part of it, since my girlfriend who I live with will be in NYC to finish her degree for the next year and a half.

[kotov]

I'm almost positive it's going to be Central Michigan for me. Ohio is an enticing offer, but it's an MA and I'd be going through another cycle of this in two years, and I don't really feel like doing that. The money isn't great, but the faculty fit is strong for what I want to do, so it's probably my best offer.

[barricades]

I am still waiting to hear from a couple of schools and wait lists, but I doubt the situation will change. I'm basically deciding between two programs: USC and Princeton.

At USC I'd get the chance to work with an awesome adviser, whose work I am very much interested in and who is definitely a force in the field. I was there for prospective student weekend and the atmosphere was great. Very friendly department, and it seems very up and coming. Aggressive in recruting the best students and hiring the top people in the field. While LA has the Getty, the department does seem to lack a little on resources, especially concerning my field. But I guess that's what ILLs are for? I felt that they offer methodologically what I am looking for. Innovative approaches to history, very strong cultural history current. I definitely wasn't a big fan of LA, which could be a problem (but not the deciding factor).

Princeton works different. From what I understand, you are not assigned an adviser until after your exams. But, if my interests stay the same, it doesn't seem that the adviser I would have has the same compatibility as the one at USC. But the department does have a greater depth of faculty. But I'm still trying to figure out what that means, for while they have produced a stellar crop of early modern europeanists, I haven't heard much about their modern europeanists. I haven't been to the prospective student visit yet, so can't tell about the atmosphere. I hear Firestone Library is amazing, and being on the East Coast makes a lot of things easily accessible (including family). Princeton, however, seems to have a much more "traditional" approach to history, with a strong emphasis on political and social history. But, at the end of the day, I guess I'm the one who writes my dissertation. Placement seems to be amazing, but like I've said, that seems to be mostly regarding early modern europeanists.

Both are offering similar financial packages. USC's is between 10-15% higher than Princeton's. But at Princeton there is no requirement to teach, and if you do the stipend does increase, at least that's what they told me (USC requires 3 years). Cost of living is also similar, but the two settings couldn't be more different.

I'm concened with quality of life, for one. Will I be happy where I live? Will I be happy during the first two years with the seminars offered? Will I be happy with my cohort and professors? But I'm also concerned with placement in the future. The whole adviser vs. institutional prestige issue. It's something I'm really considering, since if I do decide to teach back at home (South America) one name would stand out much more than the other.

NYU is trailing behind these two, since I found out about it recently and haven't had much contact with the faculty. We'll see how it goes as I get to know everyone better.

[barricades]

Jeppe,

What did you think about the departmental atmosphere? Did students seem happy? I haven't heard great things about grad students quality of life at NYU, and since I didn't attend the weekend was wondering what you thought about it.

I accepted an offer from NYU the same day I got it. It was a pretty easy decision, as I basically had two schools at the top of my list, and the other one had rejected me the week before. After the prospective students weekend at NYU I felt very confident that it would be the best fit in terms of faculty strengths and general research interests. I work on early modern imperial history in the Atlantic, with a focus on legal and political issues, and I don't think that there are many places out there that do this as well as NYU, especially considering that Lauren Benton's work has been a key influence on the contours of my own project.

Geography also played a key part of it, since my girlfriend who I live with will be in NYC to finish her degree for the next year and a half.

[TransnationalHistory]

I definitely wasn't a big fan of LA, which could be a problem (but not the deciding factor).

Just a note on LA: I have a handful of friends who live there and love it, and they are not the sort of people you typically think of when you think of LA. I once had the impression it was a place I'd never want to be, but they've changed my mind. It's a big diverse city, and I bet if you end up there you'd be able to find the parts that work for you.

[The Dudester]

I am still waiting to hear from a couple of schools and wait lists, but I doubt the situation will change. I'm basically deciding between two programs: USC and Princeton.

At USC I'd get the chance to work with an awesome adviser, whose work I am very much interested in and who is definitely a force in the field. I was there for prospective student weekend and the atmosphere was great. Very friendly department, and it seems very up and coming. Aggressive in recruting the best students and hiring the top people in the field. While LA has the Getty, the department does seem to lack a little on resources, especially concerning my field. But I guess that's what ILLs are for? I felt that they offer methodologically what I am looking for. Innovative approaches to history, very strong cultural history current. I definitely wasn't a big fan of LA, which could be a problem (but not the deciding factor).

FWIW, USC is not in a great neighborhood, and cost of living in LA is awful. But on the flip side, it has everything you could want to do or see.

[sidiosquiere]

FWIW, USC is not in a great neighborhood, and cost of living in LA is awful. But on the flip side, it has everything you could want to do or see.

I'm from LA - so, I'm biased - but it is an AMAZINGLY diverse city. I love it there.

[Bukharan]

But I'm also concerned with placement in the future. The whole adviser vs. institutional prestige issue. It's something I'm really considering, since if I do decide to teach back at home (South America) one name would stand out much more than the other.

I am not sure whether you asked for the advice we all provide here now but yes, a good point there. Especially for those not from the USA, the name is a big deal. Not only for placements if we choose to go back but for purely egotistic purposes. Most parents outside of the USA have heard of only a few schools in America.

You got into awesome schools and I am glad to hear you got full funding!

[barricades]

Just a note on LA: I have a handful of friends who live there and love it, and they are not the sort of people you typically think of when you think of LA. I once had the impression it was a place I'd never want to be, but they've changed my mind. It's a big diverse city, and I bet if you end up there you'd be able to find the parts that work for you.

FWIW, USC is not in a great neighborhood, and cost of living in LA is awful. But on the flip side, it has everything you could want to do or see.

I'm from LA - so, I'm biased - but it is an AMAZINGLY diverse city. I love it there.

I have no doubts about that. It seems big enough to the point that it can sustain a diversity of populations and entertainment. Haha. It's just the car culture that turns me off, and how spread out the whole thing is. I'm an urban density kind of guy.

[barricades]

I am not sure whether you asked for the advice we all provide here now but yes, a good point there. Especially for those not from the USA, the name is a big deal. Not only for placements if we choose to go back but for purely egotistic purposes. Most parents outside of the USA have heard of only a few schools in America.

You got into awesome schools and I am glad to hear you got full funding!

Oh, all advice is welcomed!

I definitely feel the pressure from my parents, who can't grasp why I would even second doubt Princeton. But then again, they think I'm freaking crazy for leaving a place where the economy is booming to go live as a poor graduate student in a "downfalling empire."

[Jeppe]

Jeppe,

What did you think about the departmental atmosphere? Did students seem happy? I haven't heard great things about grad students quality of life at NYU, and since I didn't attend the weekend was wondering what you thought about it.

Hi Barricades,

I had heard a few of the bad rumors about NYU previously, but my impression at the weekend was very positive. The students didn't seem any less happy than the students at other graduate departments I've been at, and I think that the new financial aid package has done a lot to alleviate some of the previous sore points. There is no longer any required teaching, but students are generally expected to TA for at least a year, with the possibility of 'banking' their earnings towards a sixth year of funded study.

I also think that a lot of the bad rep comes from the way the graduate school handles the application process from an administrative angle, which doesn't seem to be reflected in the daily life of current students.

All in all I was very happy with what I saw of the department and the faculty, and I didn't have any negative encounters. I've also been to a few events following the weekend (in the Atlantic Workshop and elsewhere), and they have all been pleasant. There definitely seems to be a less formal atmosphere than at Princeton, and the barrier between students and faculty seems less insurmountable, to compare it with at least one of your other choices.

If you want any other details (about advisers or something else), feel free to PM me and I'll see if I can answer.

[bags]

I'm not sure if anyone is reading this anymore, but I thought I'd try and vet some opinions.

I'm going for my MA in the fall and I've got two choices. One is my top choice where I didn't get any funding, nor did I expect to, but its a one year program that practically has a whole department dedicated to my sub-field, medieval history. The other school surprised me with a generous funding package, but honestly I never really meant to go there--it was mostly a backup school in case the others rejected me. There is really only one medieval history prof there, she's a very good teacher, but...

I'm lucky enough to have enough saved up that I would only have to take out a couple thousand dollars in loans to go to my dream school, but I'm wondering if I should take the money and try my luck with the PHD program instead. It's a really tough decision for me. A few thousand dollars in debt for one year wouldn't hurt me terribly in the long run and it is what I had planned for anyway, but its tough to turn down money.

Any opinions?

Edit: I should add, most PHD programs in Canada guarantee funding for accepted students, so if I get accepted for PHD in the future I'll have some minimum funding.

Edited March 20, 2011 by bags

[shepardn7]

At USC I'd get the chance to work with an awesome adviser, whose work I am very much interested in and who is definitely a force in the field. I was there for prospective student weekend and the atmosphere was great. Very friendly department, and it seems very up and coming. Aggressive in recruting the best students and hiring the top people in the field. While LA has the Getty, the department does seem to lack a little on resources, especially concerning my field. But I guess that's what ILLs are for? I felt that they offer methodologically what I am looking for. Innovative approaches to history, very strong cultural history current. I definitely wasn't a big fan of LA, which could be a problem (but not the deciding factor).

Princeton works different. From what I understand, you are not assigned an adviser until after your exams. But, if my interests stay the same, it doesn't seem that the adviser I would have has the same compatibility as the one at USC. But the department does have a greater depth of faculty. But I'm still trying to figure out what that means, for while they have produced a stellar crop of early modern europeanists, I haven't heard much about their modern europeanists. I haven't been to the prospective student visit yet, so can't tell about the atmosphere. I hear Firestone Library is amazing, and being on the East Coast makes a lot of things easily accessible (including family). Princeton, however, seems to have a much more "traditional" approach to history, with a strong emphasis on political and social history. But, at the end of the day, I guess I'm the one who writes my dissertation. Placement seems to be amazing, but like I've said, that seems to be mostly regarding early modern europeanists.

Both are offering similar financial packages. USC's is between 10-15% higher than Princeton's. But at Princeton there is no requirement to teach, and if you do the stipend does increase, at least that's what they told me (USC requires 3 years). Cost of living is also similar, but the two settings couldn't be more different.

I'm concened with quality of life, for one. Will I be happy where I live? Will I be happy during the first two years with the seminars offered? Will I be happy with my cohort and professors? But I'm also concerned with placement in the future. The whole adviser vs. institutional prestige issue. It's something I'm really considering, since if I do decide to teach back at home (South America) one name would stand out much more than the other.

The USC school of Arts and Letters just received a huge "gift" from a generous donor: $200 million dollars, to be allocated only to humanities programs. No science (not even social science), no sports stadiums--just liberal arts. This means every humanities program at USC, including the history doctoral program, will be getting a huge sum of money. Not sure what they'll do with it, but it's coming to them. I suspect they will use the money to persuade at least one prominent scholar to come to the program....

The "Princeton" name might carry you overseas, yes, but I wouldn't put too much stock in the name in the US, should you decide to stay here. The Ivy League name (plus Stanford) always catches the eye, but I think in the US the name of your advisor (and I use "name" loosely, because often it has to do with connections and not some distant reverence) carries more weight than the general name of the program. I would base your decision on less superficial factors, such as the promise of your potential advisor relationship, the curriculum, the atmosphere and students, the location, etc. Where you best "fit."

Also, do think about the kind of approach to scholarship you wish to take, because in the end it is really not wholly "your" dissertation (as you say) -- your committee will push and pressure you in certain directions based on what they think is best, and your work will need to earn their approval. So, if you are wanting to do work that is so-called "cutting edge" (or just plain novel) and are concerned about Princeton's "conventional" approaches, you might run into more resistance than you think. I would look at the work of your potential advisors and committee members at both departments and see how your approach to scholarship (and not just your subject matter) would fit in with them.

Also, you will want teaching experience for your CV, so even if you decide to go to Princeton, I'd start teaching in your second year anyway. I'd teach for at least 3 out of the 5 years. It just helps post-grad, should you need to adjunct for awhile, to have experience to discuss in your interviews.

Edited March 21, 2011 by sarandipidy

[StrangeLight]

Also, you will want teaching experience for your CV, so even if you decide to go to Princeton, I'd start teaching in your second year anyway. I'd teach for at least 3 out of the 5 years. It just helps post-grad, should you need to adjunct for awhile, to have experience to discuss in your interviews.

NNNOOOOOOOOOOO. *darth vader style*

teaching is definitely important for your CV. even at R1 universities. my R1 university turned down a great candidate with ground-breaking scholarship because his teaching experience was so thin, we worried he wouldn't even be able to advise or lead a grad seminar. it was still a close vote, but grad students' concerns over his teaching inexperience ultimately cost him the job. another candidate for a different job search was really put over the top when (in addition to a great job talk) we found out that he had won teaching awards and had advised undergraduate honours' theses. he went to harvard, so it's not like he was teaching because his school couldn't afford to support him with fellowships.

THAT SAID, teaching for 3 of your 5 years in grad school is excessive. 1 or 2 years of teaching are more manageable in terms of getting you through your coursework and research in a timely fashion and in terms of building some real teaching experience. when you're in your 6th or 7th year (because NO ONE finishes an MA/PhD in 5 years), then you can teach again.

[qbtacoma]

NNNOOOOOOOOOOO. *darth vader style*

teaching is definitely important for your CV. even at R1 universities. my R1 university turned down a great candidate with ground-breaking scholarship because his teaching experience was so thin, we worried he wouldn't even be able to advise or lead a grad seminar. it was still a close vote, but grad students' concerns over his teaching inexperience ultimately cost him the job. another candidate for a different job search was really put over the top when (in addition to a great job talk) we found out that he had won teaching awards and had advised undergraduate honours' theses. he went to harvard, so it's not like he was teaching because his school couldn't afford to support him with fellowships.

THAT SAID, teaching for 3 of your 5 years in grad school is excessive. 1 or 2 years of teaching are more manageable in terms of getting you through your coursework and research in a timely fashion and in terms of building some real teaching experience. when you're in your 6th or 7th year (because NO ONE finishes an MA/PhD in 5 years), then you can teach again.

For folks who wanted to get a headstart on teaching strategies, though, having earlier and more frequent teaching experiences could be a clear benefit to more TA work. Doesn't it take teachers something like five years to develop their own styles and gain experience? Also if the final goal is working at a CC the teaching experience will be just as important as the research, though anyone doing that should try to adjunct at a CC too. Setting all that aside, sometimes people just need to pay the bills, even if school takes longer.

And people, what's with the thumbs down on StrangeLight? If you disagree please elaborate in a post. I know you all aren't objecting to Star Wars jokes.