Opinions on Canadian Schools PhD Programs

[aselfmadewinter]

So, I'm Canadian, and as I've stated elsewhere on this forum, I wanted to stay in Canada, and I only applied to Canadian schools. I've been accepted at McGill, Toronto (TST, Theology), McMaster (RelStud), and UBC (Classics/RelStud), all in some form of New Testament studies PhD program. What's great is that I got in to the programs that I wanted, what's not so great is that I didn't really rank my choices well enough to figure out where I should end up going. Does anyone have any opinions about the Canadian schools and how they rank against each other? I know that these are all pretty good schools, which makes the decision really hard. Also, are there any non-Canadians with any opinions? It'd be interesting to see how non-Canadians see the Canadian schools. I really like UBC, but their PhD is sort of new and it's hard to judge how they rank as of yet, though the school itself is a top 30 school (according to the THE rankings).

To make things a bit more complicated, I have good funding offers from McMaster and UBC, but no word yet from Toronto (TST) or anything concrete from McGill, though I probably won't get any funding from McGill beyond a TAship. SSHRC is a possibility.

Any advice would be appreciated! I really have no idea, but funding is of course a huge factor. Most Canadian schools want an answer by April 1, which stinks because SSHRC results come out in late April.

[sacklunch]

That's a great question! I have heard from quite a few folks that Toronto is awesome, but honestly I don't think I have ever heard anyone mention the others you listed. I have heard of them on this forum (obviously), but I don't think they have ever come up from the several dozen friends I have that did/have applied for doctoral/masters programs.

I always wondered why this was? Is it because funding for Americans sucks, or???

[aselfmadewinter]

I've actually noticed that very few Americans know much about Canadian schools aside from Toronto, and McGill if you live on the East Coast or UBC if you live in the West. I'm at Toronto for my MA, and we have a number of international students, though very few of them are from the US. Funding is always a problem for Americans up here, just as funding for internationals is difficult in the US.

This might sound weird, but in Canada, the only Americans schools that we hear much about would be the Ivies (Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Columbia especially), and that's pretty much it. I don't know why that is, but it seems that Canadians don't know much about US programs and vice versa. Toronto and UBC are both top thirty schools, and McGill and McMaster aren't too far behind. UBC and Toronto are also huge schools, I think both have over 40k students, Toronto is close to 50k, I think.

[sacklunch]

Makes sense. I remember looking into TST for an MA and not applying because I was told its funding for Americans sucks (although tuition is way cheaper).

It also seems like not very many Canadian PhD's come into the US to teach once they're are done...are at least I haven't seen/had many? I have had a couple from Toronto (although in history), but I don't think any of them went to the others for PhD work...again, strange.

[aselfmadewinter]

Makes sense. I remember looking into TST for an MA and not applying because I was told its funding for Americans sucks (although tuition is way cheaper).

It also seems like not very many Canadian PhD's come into the US to teach once they're are done...are at least I haven't seen/had many? I have had a couple from Toronto (although in history), but I don't think any of them went to the others for PhD work...again, strange.

That's probably because there aren't that many people with PhD's from Canadian schools compared to how many there are from the US. Most profs up here have degrees from Canadian or UK schools, though there are some from American Ivies. The thing with Canada is that there's not as many people here, and not as many big universities. The four I mentioned earlier are sort of the ones that have the best reps in Canada, and there's a few other notables as well, but there just aren't as many Canadian schools. With cohorts of 1-4 students per year, most of them wanting to stay in Canada, you won't see too many of them south of the border. Most Canadians (or so I gather) like to stay in Canada, or go to the UK or Australia (the "commonwealth").

[sacklunch]

What about PhD funding for Americans? Since "most" of the US PhD programs are funded, are the Canadian ones the same?

Edited March 7, 2011 by jdmhotness

[aselfmadewinter]

Well, Canadian universities are (almost) all public (except for Trinity Western in BC, which is pretty small). That being said, McMaster is known for guaranteeing funding of at least 17K Canadian to all PhD students, and Toronto (at least in Religion) usually funds PhDs. TST is a different ballgame, because it operates separately from the Faculty of Graduate Studies at Toronto, and mostly gives tuition but rarely stipends. McGill (Montreal) is notorious for its poor funding despite its (supposed) international reputation. UBC in Vancouver has good funding, but it varies between programs and students. Overall, most of the big Canadian programs are funded. Tution in Canada is very cheap, so it usually isn't too expensive for international students. So, I'd say that it is pretty reasonable to do a PhD here if you're an American. On the other hand, why pay international fees if you can get accepted at home?

Edited March 7, 2011 by aselfmadewinter

[Lymrance]

A Self Made Winter:

What makes you think you won't get any funding from McGill or the U of T? The reason I ask is because I haven't heard back from Toronto yet, but I just got into McGill with an excellent funding offer in a Humanities PhD program.

Also, I find it interesting that Toronto got back to you with an acceptance but with no funding! Weird! Don't they normally write back with an answer regarding both...? Hopefully you'll hear back from them again soon with some info on funding.

Regarding your primary question on how they all compare, I would suggest you look up how the schools fit into the national and world rankings. I know we all grew up with the Macleans rankings, but you might want to check out the schools global scores for some more perspective. In general, I've found that McGill usually comes in higher than Toronto, but Toronto is second best. UBC is rarely on the world rankings charts or if it is, it comes in much lower than Toronto or McGill.

E.g.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QS_World_University_Rankings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Higher_Education_World_University_Rankings

I also think that considering your school's reputation is a good idea. The way in which the school you attend is perceived is ultimately (and somewhat unfortunately) going to count quite a bit when you apply for jobs later on. I would say, the more well-known the school, the better. My advisor confirmed this as well.

[aselfmadewinter]

A Self Made Winter:

What makes you think you won't get any funding from McGill or the U of T? The reason I ask is because I haven't heard back from Toronto yet, but I just got into McGill with an excellent funding offer in a Humanities PhD program.

Also, I find it interesting that Toronto got back to you with an acceptance but with no funding! Weird! Don't they normally write back with an answer regarding both...? Hopefully you'll hear back from them again soon with some info on funding.

Regarding your primary question on how they all compare, I would suggest you look up how the schools fit into the national and world rankings. I know we all grew up with the Macleans rankings, but you might want to check out the schools global scores for some more perspective. In general, I've found that McGill usually comes in higher than Toronto, but Toronto is second best. UBC is rarely on the world rankings charts or if it is, it comes in much lower than Toronto or McGill.

E.g.

http://en.wikipedia....ersity_Rankings

http://en.wikipedia....ersity_Rankings

I also think that considering your school's reputation is a good idea. The way in which the school you attend is perceived is ultimately (and somewhat unfortunately) going to count quite a bit when you apply for jobs later on. I would say, the more well-known the school, the better. My advisor confirmed this as well.

The thing with my acceptance to Toronto is that the acceptance is actually to the theological school attached to Toronto. Theology is often entirely separate from the Faculty of Graduate Studies, at least in Canada and is not very well funded. As for McGill, they don't have standardized funding across the university, and Religious Studies is its own faculty at McGill. Past PhD applicants to RelStud on this forum have complained about their funding, which makes me think that McGill just has poor funding for RelStud, which is actually confirmed by the faculty's website (which describes PhD funding as "limited").

As for the world rankings... have you checked out the 2010 THE rankings? Toronto ranks 17th in the world, UBC 30th, and McGill 35th. Search "British Columbia" instead of "UBC" on world rankings charts. It's almost always in the top 40, and has recently been ranking higher than McGill. McMaster also makes the top 100.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/top-200.html

Edited March 14, 2011 by aselfmadewinter

[Lymrance]

The thing with my acceptance to Toronto is that the acceptance is actually to the theological school attached to Toronto. Theology is often entirely separate from the Faculty of Graduate Studies, at least in Canada and is not very well funded. As for McGill, they don't have standardized funding across the university, and Religious Studies is its own faculty at McGill. Past PhD applicants to RelStud on this forum have complained about their funding, which makes me think that McGill just has poor funding for RelStud, which is actually confirmed by the faculty's website (which describes PhD funding as "limited").

As for the world rankings... have you checked out the 2010 THE rankings? Toronto ranks 17th in the world, UBC 30th, and McGill 35th.

Oh, geez, that is confusing. In the rankings I posted (above), Toronto beats McGill in one while McGill comes in higher in the other. I wonder how they'll fare this year... And by the time we graduate, it could be totally reversed again!

I guess it's enough that they frequently are high up in the rankings.

Interesting to know about UBC, too, as I applied there.

So, what methodology are you going to decide then...? Please share.

[aselfmadewinter]

Haha, that's the question of the month! I have no idea yet. My funding offer from McGill is so bad that I'm really considering McMaster and UBC. I got a 50% tuition offer from Toronto (Schoo of Theology, not School of Graduate Studies, hence the funding dilemma). UBC seems really viable. McMaster fairs worse in the rankings, but its Religious Studies department is one of the university's strengths, while at UBC it isn't. I still have no idea.

To be honest... I'm going to visit McMaster and maybe McGill and just see how I feel. Maybe I'll get SSHRC.

Edited March 14, 2011 by aselfmadewinter

[Lymrance]

Haha, that's the question of the month! I have no idea yet. My funding offer from McGill is so bad that I'm really considering McMaster and UBC. I got a 50% tuition offer from Toronto (Schoo of Theology, not School of Graduate Studies, hence the funding dilemma). UBC seems really viable. McMaster fairs worse in the rankings, but its Religious Studies department is one of the university's strengths, while at UBC it isn't. I still have no idea.

To be honest... I'm going to visit McMaster and maybe McGill and just see how I feel. Maybe I'll get SSHRC.

Yeah, SSHRC could definitely change everything....

Based on your current offers, personally I'd go with UBC because of 1) funding and 2) reputation. I feel like picking based on the faculty I want to work with is almost a luxury at this point, but that's just me. I know a lot of people who pick primarily based on who they'll be working with. It's kind of like the top 3 things, of which you can only have 1-2 out of the 3.

Anyways, if you get a SSHRC, I say you ask Toronto and/or McGill which one of them will admit you with a tuition waiver.

[aselfmadewinter]

Yeah, SSHRC could definitely change everything....

Based on your current offers, personally I'd go with UBC because of 1) funding and 2) reputation. I feel like picking based on the faculty I want to work with is almost a luxury at this point, but that's just me. I know a lot of people who pick primarily based on who they'll be working with. It's kind of like the top 3 things, of which you can only have 1-2 out of the 3.

Anyways, if you get a SSHRC, I say you ask Toronto and/or McGill which one of them will admit you with a tuition waiver.

That's definitely what I'm thinking. BTW, would you mind me asking what field you're in and where you're thinking of heading? I see you've applied to a few of the same schools as me.

(And congrats on your acceptances!)

Edited March 14, 2011 by aselfmadewinter

[Lymrance]

That's definitely what I'm thinking. BTW, would you mind me asking what field you're in and where you're thinking of heading? I see you've applied to a few of the same schools as me.

(And congrats on your acceptances!)

I'm not in Theology (though that would be a coincidence!). And right now McGill is my top pick, but that could change just depending on what I hear from the other schools. Ottawa offered a great funding package and an awesome advisor who says she could put me on a project that is just up my alley. If I were to pick based on faculty alone, then it would be Ottawa. But I'm trying to be really practical.

Oh, and if I were to pick based solely on location/weather, then it would be UBC, of course.

(The hilarious thing, though (well, hilarious to me), is that I've never even been to half of the places I applied: Ottawa, Vancouver, Oxford, Durham.)

Oh, and congrats on yours, too!

[abominable.snowman]

Although UBC has a better 'ranking' as a university, I would say that if you are choosing between McMaster and UBC, McMaster probably has the more established program and better connected profs. It really does depend on what you want to do for your PhD and how it matches up to the strengths of the program, e.g. if your topic is on Paul, I'd definitely choose McMaster but if it is more related to social sciences approach to NT then maybe UBC. While McGill's funding does suck (I know, their offer to me was abysmal), the program is widely known and highly regarded. I know that funding is always a consideration, but you also need to assess the capacity of the program in helping you get employment afterward. A new program, such as UBC's, often does not have the professional development support system established and thus, you end up as a bit of a guinea pig for them, whereas McMaster and McGill (and TST to some extent) have that machine oiled already. Anyway, I would try to assess the expertise and strengths of the individual programs (as regarded by those outside of it) rather than the 'ranking' of the university.

BTW good luck on the SSHRC.

[aselfmadewinter]

Although UBC has a better 'ranking' as a university, I would say that if you are choosing between McMaster and UBC, McMaster probably has the more established program and better connected profs. It really does depend on what you want to do for your PhD and how it matches up to the strengths of the program, e.g. if your topic is on Paul, I'd definitely choose McMaster but if it is more related to social sciences approach to NT then maybe UBC. While McGill's funding does suck (I know, their offer to me was abysmal), the program is widely known and highly regarded. I know that funding is always a consideration, but you also need to assess the capacity of the program in helping you get employment afterward. A new program, such as UBC's, often does not have the professional development support system established and thus, you end up as a bit of a guinea pig for them, whereas McMaster and McGill (and TST to some extent) have that machine oiled already. Anyway, I would try to assess the expertise and strengths of the individual programs (as regarded by those outside of it) rather than the 'ranking' of the university.

BTW good luck on the SSHRC.

This was a really helpful reply, so thank you very much. I've been talking to some of my professors just today, and McMaster was actually recommended to me over McGill or UBC. Part of that probably has to do with my research interests, although social science is also a big part of what I hope to do. What you said about UBC being new and the two Mc's having professional development support seems to be very true, and it's sort of what I've been worrying about. McMaster advertises somewhere on their RelStud website that 80% of their graduate students find teaching employment after graduating, which is really, really impressive.

I think what I've been discovering is that it's important to consider the program's reputation and graduates rather than the rankings. I think I'm a bit closer to making a final decision now.

Edited March 14, 2011 by aselfmadewinter