GSPP // SAIS // Fletcher

[compost&recycle]

Fellow graduate students-to be,

Now that admissions decisions and financial packages are coming in, the usual "where should I go" freak out begins. I was really hoping not to be torn too much – life seemed perfect when I got accepted to GSPP, but of course, as the universe works, the school I almost ruled out, Tufts' Fletcher School just offered me a substantial scholarship, which drops their high tuition to the same level as Berkeley's GSPP (which is the most affordable of all the programs since I am a CA resident). Furthermore, SAIS just sent their acceptance letter. Not sure about their financial package yet, but it’s definitely a hard one to turn down. My professor from my IR undergrad is understandably strongly favoring Fletcher and SAIS, but Berkeley is such a good policy program that I am looking for alternative advice (outside of the IR world), i.e. YOU guys.

I am looking for opinions, insight, gossip, plain biases, any sort of advice on the advantages and unknown secrets about each school. I am focusing on International Environmental Policy with emphasis on climate change and resource policy/diplomacy, so each school has its strengths in one area (GSPP in terms of policy analysis and Tufts/SAIS in the international aspect). My long-term goal is to work as an adviser on international climate change policy, between the U.S. and the EU (either staying in the States or moving back to Europe)

Here are my VERY SUBJECTIVE thoughts (and own little biases) so far and I would love to read your feedback. I am sure folks from the East Coast will have good insight and possibly could make me feel more inclined to make the move.

Thank you in advance for all your responses. This forum ROCKS!!

Berkeley Pros

• Great school with strong name recognition (also internationally)
• Tuition is fairly reasonable and GSR/GSI positions are options to waive tuition and receive salary
• Strong environmental studies and energy resources group (Bay Area in general is environmentally very progressive) – I personally prefer the West Coast but realize that the East Coast is probably a better place for academia
• I wouldn't have to move (I moved countries three times in the past few years, so not moving seems appealing at this point, plus save moving costs and could benefit from my existing network)
  
  Berkeley Cons
  
  
  • Not very strong in international studies (focus on domestic policy)
  • Sort of a in “liberal bubble” – I am liberal but think it’s important to have a balance in order to generate a productive and stimulating learning environment
  • Will it limit my career to a domestic/local career vs. a program on the East Coast/D.C.??
    
    SAIS Pros
    
    
    • Extremely well-regarded IR program (at least in IR circles)
    • Quant-heavy
    • Energy, Resource, Environment focus
    • First year in Bologna (I am from Europe, so being closer to home would be nice + I love Italian food and lifestyle)
      SAIS Cons
      
      
      • Is it known outside IR circles?
      • Expensive tuition (especially Bologna due to Euro)and moving costs
        
      • limited course selection in Bologna (due to quant. requirements)
      • I’m not in love with D.C. and don't plan on staying there after grad school

    Tufts Pros

    [*]Oldest and top IR school - great in diplomacy

    [*]Has an int’l environmental policy focus[*]Can take ¼ of course load at Harvard[*]$40,000 scholarship is hard to resist

    Tufts Cons

    [*]Not very well known (on the West Coast or internationally except in IR circles)[*]Location? (I’ve been to the Boston area 8 years ago and can't say I felt "the urge" to live there)[*]Very cold winters (I know, very superficial but one gets spoiled in CA)[*]Don't plan on staying in Boston area after graduating

Edited March 15, 2011 by compost&recycle

[Nimesis]

As a person who is strongly leaning towards Goldman myself, I agree with what you said about the school being strongly focused on domestic policy. I got that sense both from reading backthreads on these forums and from visiting the program myself, and I also think it was commented on by the current GSPP student who created that thread answering questions about the program. If you were to attend GSPP you'd probably need to develop your international expertise through electives more so than any classes you actually take at Goldman, although as you already know Berkeley has top 10 programs in most other departments so that wouldn't necessarily be a completely bad thing. The other thing you didn't mention about GSPP is that it is extremely quant-heavy, which should be noted on the pros side. I agree that Berkeley would be a good choice for environmental affairs, but I'm not sure its the best choice if you're considering an international career, even with all the positive qualities it has. (location, quantitative emphasis, world class university, great faculty, career services, etc.)

[compost&recycle]

Nimesis: Thanks for your response. I agree with you in that GSPP is very quant heavy as attested by the GSPP student I just talked to last night. So both GSPP and SAIS are comparable in quantitative training. I just received my financial aid package from SAIS (15K for the first year, no mention about 2nd year though - anyone?), which makes it slightly more "financially competitive" with the other schools (it is still more, but several of my peers say that "it is worth it"). As a German, who is very reluctant spending so much money for school, I am a bit cautious to jump to such conclusions but I do agree with the argument that the Bologna SAIS experience would be unique and possibly unparalleled with GSPP or Tufts. However, is it worth a difference of up to $30K? Don't know.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and congrats to everyone, it seems like most got into one or more programs of their choice. Isn't this a nice reward for all the hard work we've done last year?

[foodlover28]

GSPP's domestic focus is also my biggest concern. I went to UCB for undergrad so I'm very in favor of the school. I posted a question in the GSPP New Admits 2011 thread about IAS (International and Area Studies). There's the option of getting MPP/IAS concurrent degree and I was wondering if anyone knows anything more about it? I studied in the IAS department and I know that they are a very strong faculty and lots of resources there, so it might be a way to resolve the lack of int'l focus in the main MPP curriculum.

Also, I saw that you listed Duke as both accepted and rejected in your signature, but I 'm guessing you got in given the scholarship figures. May I ask why you've chosen to not consider Duke?.

[compost&recycle]

Foodlover28: Thank you for your insight on UCB, I was considering a dual degree with the IAS but don't know if it's worth a third year. I guess I could always decide that during my first year. Re: Duke. I got accepted to the Nicholas School of Environment for the M.E.M. but not for the Sanford School of Public Policy (M.P.P.). Since their funding was not very high, it made my decision fairly easy and allowed me to narrow it down to these three. However, SAIS' financial offer that came yesterday made it even more of a tie. After talking to my co-workers (one is a GSPP alum and the other a GWU alum and huge D.C. advocate) I feel extremely torn since both of them advised me NOT to go to UCB but to SAIS (as it aligns more with my international background and career goals). I agree that UCB would be the "easy route" but does that mean also the "wrong choice"? VERY DIFFICULT!

What about you? Are you decided or in the same anxiety-driven state of mind?

[foodlover28]

As much as I like GSPP, I think in your case, I'd lean toward SAIS/Fletcher as well. I didn't apply to Fletcher so I can't say too much about it. Berkeley is definitely at the forefront of energy/environ research (there's a class called Economics of Climate Change even) and there are many NGOs are orgs in the bay area. However, I feel that GSPP is not as ideal of a place to go for training in this field. They are more focused on giving you the skills and tool set to do analysis of all sorts, and they are definitely more quant-based (for policy analysis). It sounds like you're more interested in the IR side of things, which are SAIS/Fletcher's fortes. GSPP might get you great connections into CA/ US environ research centers/jobs, but SAIS/Fletcher will be better at connecting you to international orgs.

I don't think you can make a "wrong choice". All of these schools are excellent choices and wherever you go, I'm sure you'll end up right where you want to be (just easier/harder maybe). =)

I'm also debating between the "easy route" of staying in Cali and going to GSPP or going to Duke on full scholarship. I'm thinking of starting a thread on my decision woes, but not until I do a little more research and figure out exactly which schools I'm going to consider... (waiting for Stanford)

[compost&recycle]

foodlover28: Congrats on Duke. Did you apply to the Sanford School? If they offered full funding, you'd save around $40K vs GSPP, correct? I am not sure how Sanford ranks against GSPP (although it seems that GSPP is very highly regarded), that would be a considerable amount to refuse. Tough one! Any other schools in the running?

I am waiting on IPS also but am not too optimistic due to its extremely high selectivity (and not getting into HKS and Yale may have been a sign that the top tier is not in my cards . But you never know, right?

What is your policy focus going to be?

As much as I like GSPP, I think in your case, I'd lean toward SAIS/Fletcher as well. I didn't apply to Fletcher so I can't say too much about it. Berkeley is definitely at the forefront of energy/environ research (there's a class called Economics of Climate Change even) and there are many NGOs are orgs in the bay area. However, I feel that GSPP is not as ideal of a place to go for training in this field. They are more focused on giving you the skills and tool set to do analysis of all sorts, and they are definitely more quant-based (for policy analysis). It sounds like you're more interested in the IR side of things, which are SAIS/Fletcher's fortes. GSPP might get you great connections into CA/ US environ research centers/jobs, but SAIS/Fletcher will be better at connecting you to international orgs.

I don't think you can make a "wrong choice". All of these schools are excellent choices and wherever you go, I'm sure you'll end up right where you want to be (just easier/harder maybe). =)

I'm also debating between the "easy route" of staying in Cali and going to GSPP or going to Duke on full scholarship. I'm thinking of starting a thread on my decision woes, but not until I do a little more research and figure out exactly which schools I'm going to consider... (waiting for Stanford)

[foodlover28]

Yes, I applied for Sanford and was not expecting to get in (let alone the funding) so I am pleasantly surprised

I am also waiting for IPS decision (which is sooo slow...) but as a Cal undergrad I have to say I'm more loyal toward the Gold Bear

I'm most interested in urban social policies (particularly health and education), but with a background in ID I'm also interested in urban policies in the developing countries.

GLuck with IPS!!

foodlover28: Congrats on Duke. Did you apply to the Sanford School? If they offered full funding, you'd save around $40K vs GSPP, correct? I am not sure how Sanford ranks against GSPP (although it seems that GSPP is very highly regarded), that would be a considerable amount to refuse. Tough one! Any other schools in the running?

I am waiting on IPS also but am not too optimistic due to its extremely high selectivity (and not getting into HKS and Yale may have been a sign that the top tier is not in my cards . But you never know, right?

What is your policy focus going to be?

[compost&recycle]

Quick update. I also received my acceptance to Stanford IPS yesterday and am now expanding my "choice dilemma" to GSPP/SAIS/Fletcher and Stanford IPS.

It appears that Stanford has a great reputation (both the school overall as well as the IPS) and it seems a hard one to turn down. I would love some insight on how IPS compares to the other three. The program itself is fairly new and small, so I wonder about its alumni/network strength. It is also known to be more entrepreneurial and according to an IPS student many grads who stay in CA go Silicon Valley, which is not my priority. My focus is Energy Policy, which SAIS/Fletcher/GSPP are all strong in. Hearing from people that Stanford's name carries far makes me think it would be good choice. At the same time, I am a bit concerned about the financial aspect as there is no funding offered with the admission. Having received some generous scholarship offers from the schools named above, I am hesitant to accrue debt for a program I don't know much about.

Please offer your thoughts!

Thanks.

[hippieva]

Quick update. I also received my acceptance to Stanford IPS yesterday and am now expanding my "choice dilemma" to GSPP/SAIS/Fletcher and Stanford IPS.

It appears that Stanford has a great reputation (both the school overall as well as the IPS) and it seems a hard one to turn down. I would love some insight on how IPS compares to the other three. The program itself is fairly new and small, so I wonder about its alumni/network strength. It is also known to be more entrepreneurial and according to an IPS student many grads who stay in CA go Silicon Valley, which is not my priority. My focus is Energy Policy, which SAIS/Fletcher/GSPP are all strong in. Hearing from people that Stanford's name carries far makes me think it would be good choice. At the same time, I am a bit concerned about the financial aspect as there is no funding offered with the admission. Having received some generous scholarship offers from the schools named above, I am hesitant to accrue debt for a program I don't know much about.

Please offer your thoughts!

Thanks.

came back to pare down the post, accidentally bumped it -- sorry about that.

a few questions for you:

-how well known are jhu and tufts in europe? from my 1.5 years in germany i know that most, even many elites, only really know harvard, yale, berkeley, and if you did a high school exchange year in the US, then the local state schools half your class wound up at. the thing is that even though the knowledge is limited, the PERCEPTION of knowledge is high -- that is to say, people think they know a lot about US schools when actually they don't, and, in my experience, these people can judge your intelligence/perceived aptitude based on your US school. that way, a better "brand" might serve you well abroad, especially in countries where promotions and such at the higher levels can depend a lot on pedigree. on the other hand, it's not clear to me how important this to you -- you say several times that you're concerned that a school is only known in IR circles, but from what you've described about your career ambitions, that's exactly the field you want to stay in. so, other than for the general patina, it's not clear how important this is to you.

-how strong are the german/european networks of these schools? i remember hearing about some kind of monthly sais HH in berlin. how are fletcher/berkeley/stanford on that front, and how much does that matter to you? i.e. do you think you have a strong network in your field of choice already, are you going to want to build it from scratch in grad school, etc.

-what are a few specific jobs in international energy policy/diplomacy field? the field is growing, but outside of multilaterals / governments, i'm not sure who does that kind of work. if you're going to work for a multilateral, then one of the east coast schools seems like a safer bet. if you want a consulting firm, i think the bay area is full of top firms (like ICF international) that do advisory work in this field.

keeping that in mind, some thoughts on school specific stuff:

berkeley -- for full disclosure: i didn't apply, mostly because of the early deadline. but i remember looking through the alumni list and saw that most of them end up working for the cal state government. it's really a policy trend setter in several key fields, yours being one of them, but the idea of having a network that is not only limited to one geographic zone AND one employer is a turn off. that said, if the berkeley alumni network is strong in europe, it's a great choice.

sais -- great job on the sais scholarship, i wish i could say the small one they offered me would put them on my list of finalists. from what i've heard, and for what it's worth, the bologna center is a great place to build a network, but it also has a bit of a party-ish reputation and is a little insular. the dc campus is known as more hardworking. i'm more attracted to sais because its alumni list reads like a 'who's who' of international affairs, and i think this reputation helps it grab a lot of the top students in the field. dc is basically a post-college town, but i wouldn't worry about that since you'll be making friends with mostly sais people anyway. the key question i'd ask is, do you want to work at any of the types of places listed here? (http://www.sais-jhu....internships.htm) if so, sais probably has an alumni network in your specific field. they have an awesome world bank connection, but from speaking to a few friends that go there, the jobs offered are mostly short-term consulting contracts. that's basically how these institutions work, but it's worth keeping in mind it's an expensive decision to make for one short-term job at the end of it.

fletcher -- i basically agree with your pros and cons, except that i'm not sure that being able to take classes at harvard is a selling point enough to make a decision on that. here's where their grads work after school (http://fletcher.tuft...sampleemp.shtml). impressive list, but, more or less a list of the usual suspects of employers from of any of these schools. getting your thoughts on the q i posed above on where specifically you want to work can help clarify.

stanford -- small class size sucks, but it's more or less a choice you can't go wrong with. my thinking is that being at an institution that dreams big/thinks big/achieves big is pretty once in a lifetime since it can put you against the "best" in a variety of fields so you can push your strengths and weaknesses, and allow you to be at a place where big conversations are happening, and potentially give you the opportunity to be a part of them. if my thinking is right, and it may not be, then it's an experience that's far and away worth the extra debt.

Edited March 22, 2011 by hippieva

[greendiplomat]

Great discussion. All very balanced and insightful pros/cons that I definitely agree with, so instead of echoing some of the other posts, I'm just going to give my quick opinion as somebody also looking into a career in the international climate space.

Out of the 4 schools that you've listed, the one that stands out to me as being the strongest in international climate is Fletcher. Apart from the sense that I get that it has the strongest connection to UN agencies out of the bunch (with SAIS a very close second), what sets Fletcher apart is that it’s a program that’s designed to train its students specifically in international diplomacy, as seen by the courses that it offers such as International Environmental Negotiations and Sustainable Development Diplomacy. Moreover, I think its strength in climate policy is clear from the fact that HKS doesn’t have a climate policy course and actually recommends on its International and Global Affairs concentration course rubric for students to take the Fletcher course. I think Fletcher’s one real drawback is its perceived lack of quantitative coursework, but if you want to beef up in that area, you always have electives both within Fletcher, and via cross-registration with HKS or even Tufts’ Econ MA program.

At the end of the day, though, all of the choices that you’re faced with are some that I’m sure people would envy even individually, and, as such, I don’t think you can really go wrong with any of them. Congrats on your admissions, and good luck with choosing!