scariest thing I heard all week

[erin85]

"We are proud that today 30% of our graduates have job offers"

-Dean of Umich's Ford School, during the graduation ceremony "(I attended as a number of friends were graduating from there)

About 50% of the student speakers speech dealt with the lack of job offers himself and most other students were receiving.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I am almost 100% positive that almost all other schools have a 75% "employed upon graduation rate"...In fact the studnets I spoke to at Georgetown and Harris all had job offers...

Might be a good warning for all future students considering the program.

[jmoney]

That seems unrealistic--either he may have misspoken or was misheard.

Anyone with some sensibility would know better than to "tout" such a statistic.

I wish I had an explanation for 30%... perhaps it could be that only 30% don't have job offers.

[erin85]

That seems unrealistic--either he may have misspoken or was misheard.

Anyone with some sensibility would know better than to "tout" such a statistic.

I wish I had an explanation for 30%... perhaps it could be that only 30% don't have job offers.

nope... I went out with students from there that night, and its very much a real statistic (10 or so people, not one with a job offer). They all heard it too and all were commenting how they thought it should be more like 20%... And as I said, when combined with the student speakers speech... it was rough.

I think since it was not a "public" speech it wasn't touting a statistic.

[erin85]

That seems unrealistic--either he may have misspoken or was misheard.

P.S. not to point out a possibly sexist mess up on your part, but the dean is a SHE... interesting how it's immediately assumed it's a he.

The he I referred to was the student speaker (one of the best I've ever seen I will say) but I'm pretty sure that was evident

[Paradoxex22]

The story I heard at the admit weekend was that around 25-30 have job offers upon graduation. Many take the summer off to relax after the strenuous two years, and search for jobs during that period. Apparently 60-75% have jobs by the following August.

I assume that part of the remaining group is composed of continuing education folks and others. I admit I was less impressed by the career services head's response to this question than at other institutions. It's probably part of why I'll be at Duke come August.

BTW, Susan Collins, for what it is worth, is pretty amazing. She's an ex-Brookings policy expert with all the trappings that a policy school like Ford can appreciate. That said, her hire was very much in line with my impression of the school. It has amazing faculty and opportunities, but is more academically focused than some of the other MPP programs, which tend to have more strenuous application requirements.

[erin85]

The story I heard at the admit weekend was that around 25-30 have job offers upon graduation. Many take the summer off to relax after the strenuous two years, and search for jobs during that period. Apparently 60-75% have jobs by the following August.

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[normajean]

I applied to the Ford school and really considered going, but watching my friends there struggle right now has really made me grateful I wont be attending there next year.

This is really obnoxious. The 75% stats at Chicago and Georgetown are highly inflated and include graduates from dual MBA and JD programs. Most top law schools don't even really have 75% placement rates at graduation.

There's really no need to be so smug that you got acceptances elsewhere -- it's really not that hard to get in without funding, considering that both Harris and GPPI admit almost half of their applicants. If I recall, you didn't get accepted to the Ford School.

[erin85]

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[normajean]

Thanks for the low blow though, it was kind, totally necessary and VERY mature. This post wasnt a "pissed I didn't get in" post, since Ford was never my top choice, as I've already been through UofM's system long enough. It was meant to inform this years and possibly next years applicants of a stat that a school doesn't share openly, something I'd hope anyone would do after a visit day or another event, because these types of stats are VERY important for decision making.

It's really easy to accuse people of immaturity as a response to any criticism. I am only pointing out that there is no need for you to so blatantly advertise your delight that you're not going to Ford, as if you were saved from some terrible calamity. I'm sure there's people on this board who are going and/or who would love to go there. We all appreciate information about the shortcomings of programs -- but not if they are accompanied by smugness and disdain. To me, this disdain on your part was very obvious, so yes, I am calling you out on it. Since I'm not going to Ford, nor did I apply there, this is not coming from defensiveness on my part. It's just an observation.

[unknownscholar]

Can't we all just get along?

Truth of the matter is, any school's program can work to your benefit if you exhaust the possibilities to excel in the program. And if you don't do that, no matter if you're at Harvard or Little Known University in Bumblebee, Kansas, you'll be hardpressed to find a job in your field. Hate to admit it, but networking is pretty crucial too at this stage.

And here's a little known fact: it's hard to get a job that you're perfectly suited for, period. While I'm already working in the pp field, I was just passed up for a job that I'm already doing and then some (but with another company--though I think it's because I'm going to grad school). But when I was applying for jobs to start when I graduated in 2006, I sent well over 500 applications out, and it was by the grace of God that I ended up doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. I still don't know how it worked out so perfectly. You have to be aggressive and not allow the name of your school carry all the weight because you're not just competing with students at other schools for jobs, but you're competing with your classmates. I went to a top tier private school, but that doesn't say much in and of itself. So even at the graduate level, I'm not surprised that students who matriculated at the Ford School are having trouble. That doesn't really tell us much other than what we already know, the job market is unpredictable, and jobs are scarce, in case some of you didn't know.

[Paradoxex22]

I don't know....I didn't find it all that obnoxious. Maybe there was a small personal vindication included in the post, but I don't know if the statistics are as misconstrued as you're insinuating, normajean.

I visited Michigan's spring preview/admit weekend, and thus I did get in, and it was my second choice, so I think I'm qualified to say something. The lack of job offers was subltly apparent at UMich, and the career services head seemed a little disconcerted when asked about job offer %s, so I'd say it's a slight issue this year at Michigan. The job offer issue never really struck me, though, because I hope to get a job more on my merits than my career services department. That's my hope, at least.

Ann Arbor is a fine place to go to school, and has an amazing atmosphere. That said, it does have some comparative disadvantages in terms of the job market I think, both in self-selection and locationally. Michigan is many things, but an "up and coming" or "policy-centric" state is not one of them. It still has an amazing faculty, a ton of social policy resources, and the largest living alumni base in the world though, so how much the locational aspect matters is up for debate.

I also highly doubt there are tons of Michigan MPPs wandering about for too long sans job for long.

Anyway, if I was a potential MPP I'd find that fact a little alarming as well, especially if it was being championed. It's faux pas to post anything overtly negative about possible institutions of choice, though, so you're darned if you do and darned if you don't, unfortunately.

[MPPHopeful]

Most top law schools don't even really have 75% placement rates at graduation.

ehhhh, that's not really accurate, as far as schools in the USNWR top 14 go (the norm is that approximately 80% or so will have their employment basically set when they return for 3L year, another 10-15% will figure it out over the next year (whether they're doing clerkships, fellowships, what-have-you), and then the rest are generally pursuing other degrees, writing a book or something, or chilling w/ mommy/daddy's money.

[normajean]

ehhhh, that's not really accurate, as far as schools in the USNWR top 14 go (the norm is that approximately 80% or so will have their employment basically set when they return for 3L year, another 10-15% will figure it out over the next year (whether they're doing clerkships, fellowships, what-have-you), and then the rest are generally pursuing other degrees, writing a book or something, or chilling w/ mommy/daddy's money.

This is what's reported. I have always heard (from messageboards like autoadmit and collegeconfidential) that these figures are highly inflated. Obviously, I could be wrong.

[rising_star]

ehhhh, that's not really accurate, as far as schools in the USNWR top 14 go (the norm is that approximately 80% or so will have their employment basically set when they return for 3L year, another 10-15% will figure it out over the next year (whether they're doing clerkships, fellowships, what-have-you), and then the rest are generally pursuing other degrees, writing a book or something, or chilling w/ mommy/daddy's money.

My sister attended one of those top 14 law schools. She says that figure is definitely inflated.

[MPPHopeful]

I dunno...I attend one of those schools and, despite the economic downturn, it's almost absurd how hard law firms are working to hire us (we're talking top-quality dinner affairs, free drinks, goodies, etc. just for 1Ls). I mean, you can look at NLJ 250 employment as a barometer: http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter ... 8256428026

While people will admit it's inflated (i.e., several law schools will say that they have 100% employment at graduation), the inflation is minor to the extent that it exists. Whether or not it's all justifiable is another question...