So you want to get a Ph.d in the humanities?

[RockDenali]

Agreed. Moreover, the author makes it seem as if a tenure-track position is the only POSSIBLE positive outcome for a PhD recipient. Reflective of his own high self-opinion, perhaps?

Frankly, his attitude toward undergraduates disgusts me. I wonder if he truly believes that the best and brightest undergraduates are truly naive, psychologically-damaged, praise-seeking, halfwits who don't really deserve their high GPAs. If so, I wish he, and others like him, would help expand the job market for us newbies by getting the hell out of the profession.

For real. If here were as disgusted as he pretends he is, he would resign tomorrow. I do believe some undergrads fit his descrption, but not many.

And I agree that a graduate student who does graduate school intelligently can leave with skills and experience that make him or her valuable to a wide array of employers. Anecdotally, last year I met a newly-minted English PhD at a regional MLA who had been offered a job with Xerox as a technical documents guy. Starting pay? 70k/year.

[Waiting patiently...]

It's good to see some positive responses out there! I'm very glad to see that Rhet-comp is moving up as well; my friends should be happy.

Besides, they're just statistics anyway and none of us can do math so it shouldn't matter. What did Twain say? something like "there are lies, there are damned lies, and then there are statistics."

Personally, I've never done anything practical and don't plan to start now. I just think everyone should go into this with eyes wide open, which the majority of folks on the forum seem to be doing.

I have met some, however, that seem a LOT like the student in the "So you want to get a PhD" video. There's just a very established and comfortable hierarchy and method of establishing your success (ie grades) in academia and I think many students pursue higher degrees in the humanities out of misconceptions about the profession and life of an academic.

congrats on everyone's success, both current and in the future. I'm glad I could provoke some thought-- thank you for sharing.

[Rhet Man]

It's still around 50%, at least as recently as last year's MLA stats; his article was written in 2009, I believe. Not too dated. And, of course, that's a "humanities-wide" statistic. In rhetoric/composition, even during the last two years, placement in TT positions has been well above 80%. But then, that may be because there aren't nearly as many rhetoric programs as literature programs. But it seems that literature is still not as competitive as history, which has perenially been a tough place to find tenure.

Point is, we're not (nor were we as undergrads) victims of some "trap" or Machiavellian system. We know what we're getting into, just like Marine recruits who've watched Full Metal Jacket a million times know what boot camp is all about. We're going to bust our asses with only a partial guarantee of a job. So what? That's how America works, whether I'm a business major or an art major. The key is to be smart about the ass-busting. For starters, don't take out more than a small loan for your entire graduate education ($8500 subsidized, tops). Gain some related practical skills while you're there: become fluent in Spanish, learn programming, learn web publishing. Work summers outside of the university (or volunteer a few hours if you have to) as a tech writer or advertising assistant or autism tutor or whatever. Hell, instead of getting that minor in Religion, take some community college classes that will give you some practical skills.

We need to stop thinking that academia was ever a sure-thing. Wasn't one of Chaucer's pilgrims basically a grad student bitching about how no one cares about his wares? And I just read a great Chronicle piece about the difficulty of attaining tenure in the Reformation era. The playing field has always been small.

Where did you get that 80% stat? I need to show it to my father (he's the Samuel Johnson of graduate student fathers).

[KRC]

I'm surprised by the responses to another installment of I'm-cynical-so-you-should-be-too. Usually when posts like this make the interweb rounds they're applauded wildly. I really wonder how many of the people writing these posts have been in a position where their well-being depends on doing something they hate, for someone they hate, for a salary they hate; i.e. most entry-level non-academic, non-specialist jobs.

Statistics are statistics indeed, but a side-by-side comparison between academic work and a diverse selection of non-academic work would be more illuminating than another bitter PhD asked to work a little harder than usual.

Cheers to good-intentioned attempt at helping would-be grad students know what to expect, but boo-urns to another public podium for perhaps the worst kind of complaining, academic complaining.

Edited March 21, 2011 by KRC

[RockDenali]

Where did you get that 80% stat? I need to show it to my father (he's the Samuel Johnson of graduate student fathers).

http://english.arizona.edu/index_site.php?id=238&preview=1

http://ccr.syr.edu/people/alumni.html

http://writingstudies.umn.edu/people/alumni.html

[Waiting patiently...]

I'm surprised by the responses to another installment of I'm-cynical-so-you-should-be-too. Usually when posts like this make the interweb rounds they're applauded wildly. I really wonder how many of the people writing these posts have been in a position where their well-being depends on doing something they hate, for someone they hate, for a salary they hate; i.e. most entry-level non-academic, non-specialist jobs.

Statistics are statistics indeed, but a side-by-side comparison between academic work and a diverse selection of non-academic work would be more illuminating than another bitter PhD asked to work a little harder than usual.

Cheers to good-intentioned attempt at helping would-be grad students know what to expect, but boo-urns to another public podium for perhaps the worst kind of complaining, academic complaining.

Cheers back at you KRC. I can’t speak for the rest of my camp of web cynics--and we prefer ‘realists,’ but I guess all cynics do —but I’m pretty sure I know the difference between academic jobs and what else is out there. I’ve done shit jobs, including combat arms in the military, plumbing, and entry-level construction, for most of my adult life. I’m REALLY happy to have opportunities to study what I love--and get paid for it nonetheless--rather than be shot at by Iraqis. We should all feel VERY privileged to be able to go to school in the first place; getting paid anything for it is just icing on the cake.

I share your aversion to students, at both the graduate and undergraduate levels, complaining about how horrible life is to have tests and papers due at the end of every semester. It certainly beats the hell out of digging through feces, framing houses, or dodging IEDs—though those jobs do, and should, pay better than graduate studies.

But, if these videos and the article make people sad and force them to reconsider their vaguely pondered life choices, then they should thank those who composed them.

And, if they make you laugh, as they should if you have made a well-thought-out choice and have a sense of humor about your chosen profession for the next decade or so, then just enjoy a bit of cynical humor.

Thanks for all the statistics, everyone; anybody find any for us literature folks?

[KRC]

Not saying there's nothing worth debate regarding the working conditions of academia, just that the rhetoric will get massively overblown and the details of the scenario will get posted online more often than not, as opposed to say, not being so shocked that an entitled attitude isn't sustainable and moving on.

Edited March 21, 2011 by KRC

[Rhet Man]

Ha!! Well, first see the appropos Mark Twain quote above . . . Second, just cruise around rhet/comp program websites. Most of them have excellent resources about placed PhD students. Arizona claims 97% tenure-track. Minnesota and Syracuse, if you add up their alumni list, have place above 80% of their alumni, and I know that both of those lists are complete. Clemson claims a 100% placement rate. Just email the program directors; most of them are quite willing to share their placement rates because, well, rhet/comp places a lot of graduates in tenure-track positions! These aren't necessarily awesome placements, mind you, but they are placements in TT assistant professorships. Out of the 6 rhet/comp programs to which I applied, each was forthcoming about placement rates when I asked prior to applying. Almost all were in the 90% placement range. And just think about it: 30-something rhet/comp PhD programs in the nation compared to hundreds of literature programs.

Thanks for the clarification (I think I share the questioning of that stuff as empirical data).

I would argue that pretty much any TT assistant professorship would have to be viewed as an "awesome placement."

[RockDenali]

Cheers back at you KRC. I can’t speak for the rest of my camp of web cynics--and we prefer ‘realists,’ but I guess all cynics do —but I’m pretty sure I know the difference between academic jobs and what else is out there. I’ve done shit jobs, including combat arms in the military, plumbing, and entry-level construction, for most of my adult life. I’m REALLY happy to have opportunities to study what I love--and get paid for it nonetheless--rather than be shot at by Iraqis. We should all feel VERY privileged to be able to go to school in the first place; getting paid anything for it is just icing on the cake.

I share your aversion to students, at both the graduate and undergraduate levels, complaining about how horrible life is to have tests and papers due at the end of every semester. It certainly beats the hell out of digging through feces, framing houses, or dodging IEDs—though those jobs do, and should, pay better than graduate studies.

But, if these videos and the article make people sad and force them to reconsider their vaguely pondered life choices, then they should thank those who composed them.

And, if they make you laugh, as they should if you have made a well-thought-out choice and have a sense of humor about your chosen profession for the next decade or so, then just enjoy a bit of cynical humor.

Thanks for all the statistics, everyone; anybody find any for us literature folks?

First, thank you for your service. As a libertarian, I'm no lover of overseas warfare, but as an American and human being, I have nothing but respect for those who fight. Thanks again.

Second, here is Harvard's placement information.

http://english.fas.harvard.edu/programs/graduate/job-placement-and-alumni

Their 2008 statistics (most recent stats) show that, for all their Humanities programs, 45% did not find employment or found only a post-doc. Altogether, 65% had received some form of academic employment (including post-docs). Cruise around on that link. Might be more info elsewhere.

[crae]

This is the "Grad Student Rap"

This is hilarious!!

[Waiting patiently...]

Last one, I promise.

This is the advertisement that grad schools SHOULD be putting out:

Believe me, it is definitely worth sitting through the ad.

No comments on the 'real' grad school ad?

I especially liked 0:47 to 0:58: "I get to spend the next ten years of my life analyzing 3 lines of a poem that is over 500 years old! In the real world, that would be considered a mental disorder."

[Nurse Wretched]

If you want guaranteed success, better learn to love changing bedpans.

If you want not to sound like an arrogant jerk, better learn what nursing as a discipline involves. Hint: RNs are much too well-paid to change many bedpans. Second hint: When you're sick, you want a university-educated and board-certified RN acting as your patient advocate, your skilled caregiver, your care-planner, because you're going to see a doc (any doc) maybe twice a day for five minutes. Try not to point out to her (or him) your disdain for the profession, or your stereotypes. We don't take kindly to stupid.