Does it matter where one receives a BA or MA?

[Ex Nihil]

Hi all, seeking some advice. I am a traditional student coming from a not-so-prestigious undergraduate four-year university--a state school, but not flagship. I applied to graduate schools and was delighted to find I was accepted to a 3-4 programs (one still pending). After carefully examining funding and fit, I've decided the best offer I have is a terminal MA from another state school, this one with a significantly better ranking/reputation than my undergrad and at least one professor well known in the field. The offer is fully funded with a waiver and a stipend. However, it's still nothing near a top-20 school. It does have a decent placement record for its PhDs, though most of those placements are also at equal or lower ranked institutions, and overall if I were to get my PhD there (which I do not plan to) I would at least feel not as secure as I would if I received my PhD at a more prestigious school. My career goal, of course, is to be a tenure-track professor, and I know that with how bad the market is one's chances of doing that depend to a great extent on where one received his/her PhD. So, with that in mind, I find myself with some important questions that I hope can be answered. Please be as brutally honest as possible as nothing less than candid discussion will help me.

Does it matter where one receives a bachelors?

Does it matter where one receives a terminal MA, especially in regards to applying for PhD programs afterwards or getting a job later on?

Also, I am planning a visit next week to the campus. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to ask them, particularly given the information above?

[RockDenali]

Hi all, seeking some advice. I am a traditional student coming from a not-so-prestigious undergraduate four-year university--a state school, but not flagship. I applied to graduate schools and was delighted to find I was accepted to a 3-4 programs (one still pending). After carefully examining funding and fit, I've decided the best offer I have is a terminal MA from another state school, this one with a significantly better ranking/reputation than my undergrad and at least one professor well known in the field. The offer is fully funded with a waiver and a stipend. However, it's still nothing near a top-20 school. It does have a decent placement record for its PhDs, though most of those placements are also at equal or lower ranked institutions, and overall if I were to get my PhD there (which I do not plan to) I would at least feel not as secure as I would if I received my PhD at a more prestigious school. My career goal, of course, is to be a tenure-track professor, and I know that with how bad the market is one's chances of doing that depend to a great extent on where one received his/her PhD. So, with that in mind, I find myself with some important questions that I hope can be answered. Please be as brutally honest as possible as nothing less than candid discussion will help me.

Does it matter where one receives a bachelors?

Does it matter where one receives a terminal MA, especially in regards to applying for PhD programs afterwards or getting a job later on?

Also, I am planning a visit next week to the campus. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to ask them, particularly given the information above?

It's a crap shoot when it comes to this stuff. Cruise around the internet and check out some professors' CVs. Outside of the Ivy League, there doesn't seem to be rhyme or reason to the importance of BA/MA institutions. But I totally understand your concern. For my BA and MA, I decided to attend highly ranked (top 10) regional universities rather than mid-ranked national universities. It seemed like a good idea at the time, and I know I received a more personal education: never once had a class with more than 15 students in it. However, I'm worried that it will hurt my employment options in 4 years when I finish the PhD. I'm hoping to do a concurrent M.A. in a related discipline at my PhD institute . . .

So, in answer to your question, it's certainly a legitimate concern, but I think you can rise above your BA (what a terrible way to look at it!) by working your ass off during the PhD. Publish, pursue literacy projects, start a journal, get a grant . . . It seems like that kind of stuff will increase your employment options in a way that a great MA won't.

Edited March 18, 2011 by RockDenali

[runonsentence]

might be of interest.

Honestly, I don't think the reputation of your school is important beyond the next level (i.e., a BA helps you get into a good MA, which helps you get into a good PhD, which helps you get a good job...). And really, I think that rankings are over-rated. The work you're able to produce and the people you work with are more important.

This is all just my own opinion; but I really don't think the job market gives hoot where you got your BA. If you went to an Ivy, that'll certainly look good, but your BA institution probably won't hurt.

Besides, it's not just about names, it's about fit. (I, for instance, came from an incredibly small 4-year liberal arts college. While my school carries no name-brand value, the fact that I understand the challenges and benefits of a small liberal arts school means I'd possibly be more competitive on the market if I applied to work at those same kinds of schools.) I'd focus on programs that are a good fit for you, your current interests, and your goals.

[Rhet Man]

Hi all, seeking some advice. I am a traditional student coming from a not-so-prestigious undergraduate four-year university--a state school, but not flagship. I applied to graduate schools and was delighted to find I was accepted to a 3-4 programs (one still pending). After carefully examining funding and fit, I've decided the best offer I have is a terminal MA from another state school, this one with a significantly better ranking/reputation than my undergrad and at least one professor well known in the field. The offer is fully funded with a waiver and a stipend. However, it's still nothing near a top-20 school. It does have a decent placement record for its PhDs, though most of those placements are also at equal or lower ranked institutions, and overall if I were to get my PhD there (which I do not plan to) I would at least feel not as secure as I would if I received my PhD at a more prestigious school. My career goal, of course, is to be a tenure-track professor, and I know that with how bad the market is one's chances of doing that depend to a great extent on where one received his/her PhD. So, with that in mind, I find myself with some important questions that I hope can be answered. Please be as brutally honest as possible as nothing less than candid discussion will help me.

Does it matter where one receives a bachelors?

Does it matter where one receives a terminal MA, especially in regards to applying for PhD programs afterwards or getting a job later on?

Also, I am planning a visit next week to the campus. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to ask them, particularly given the information above?

I just sent you a private message with a link I think you'll find helpful. It won't completely answer your questions, but it will definitely tell you which schools openly prioritize which undergrad/MA programs you attended.

[stillthisappeal]

I did my MA at a program U.S. News routinely ranks in the 60-80s range and had a great experience. Upon graduation, I published a few short pieces, took some time off, and wound up teaching for a semester at a private liberal arts college in my hometown. Soon thereafter, I secured a full-time gig at an open-access state university. Since then I've published a few more articles, improved my GRE scores, and am now looking at offers from programs U.S. News ranks in the top-25.

I recognize that my experience is somewhat uncommon, but I think that, in most cases, the work you do is more important than your pedigree. I would pursue an MA at your top acceptance. What's the alternative? Spend the next year working on something not connected to your career goals? Your MA program will give you a sense of what life is like in the field and help you decide if an academic career is worth the hard work.

[shepardn7]

While "pedigree" will always carry a slight bit of weight in these situations (whether applying to school or applying to jobs), I think the fact that your MA is fully funded might be more important than the name of school at which you received it. That is, some schools with rather prestigious Ph.D programs seem to give students little to no funding to attend their MA programs, and I think that your full waiver/stipend at the less prestigious MA will look better than an unfunded MA from Harvard (even though there are certain benefits a prestigious school might provide, such as access to certain archives and scholars, I still think the funding looks great on your application because it shows that people believed enough in the work you're doing to pay you thousands and thousands of dollars to do it). Does that make sense? I think your MA acceptance sounds like a great option, so long as you take full advantage of the time and resources to improve your scholarship for Ph.D applications.

[Chris83]

While "pedigree" will always carry a slight bit of weight in these situations (whether applying to school or applying to jobs), I think the fact that your MA is fully funded might be more important than the name of school at which you received it. That is, some schools with rather prestigious Ph.D programs seem to give students little to no funding to attend their MA programs, and I think that your full waiver/stipend at the less prestigious MA will look better than an unfunded MA from Harvard (even though there are certain benefits a prestigious school might provide, such as access to certain archives and scholars, I still think the funding looks great on your application because it shows that people believed enough in the work you're doing to pay you thousands and thousands of dollars to do it). Does that make sense? I think your MA acceptance sounds like a great option, so long as you take full advantage of the time and resources to improve your scholarship for Ph.D applications.

I think this is an excellent point.

When you visit you might ask if they can tell you where their MA students wind up-- what kind of PhD programs they enter.

[cicada123]

One comment: How would a PhD know if your MA was funded or not? And if the MA does not have any funding available, that is probably an irrelevant thing to consider. They accepted you, believed in your potential, but don't have funding available, period. As far as the prestige of the MA, I find myself considering this as well. I never thought I'd turn down an Ivy, especially WITH funding. Brown is my dream school, but I have decided that I don't want to do an MAT and would rather do a program that will help me place into a top PhD. The thing is that for jobs outside of academia that do not know about the best English grad programs out there Brown would look amazing on a CV. But since I do want to go onto a PhD in English, it seems that a MA at Virginia would look better actually, since the it is an MA in English and not an MAT. This opinion is shared by the director of admissions at CUNY and Virginia, along with a past director of admissions at Chicago and several professors. Nevertheless, it still will be painful to turn down Brown.

Edited March 28, 2011 by cicada123

[runonsentence]

One comment: How would a PhD know if your MA was funded or not?

Although I suppose a potential PhD program would never know for sure, I suspect most applicants list assistantships on CVs and talk about their research and/or teaching experience in their SOPs. (And omission of such material from an application may be glaring for an adcomm). I know I did this extensively in order to look competitive.