Please help -- am I qualified?

[stevemont]

I would like to apply to some PhD programs in Sociology (starting in Fall '09), but am not sure exactly how good of a program I am qualified for since I have no academic background in the field besides SOC 101 and 102 as an undergrad. Obviously, I would love a top 10 school with funding, but I don't know if I have a shot. Right now, UNC seems to be the best fit for me, but really, I am just curious to hear from those out there who are a bit more in tune with the world of grad schools (I have been out of school for 10 years) where they think I could apply with a realistic shot. Below is some basic information to help you provide your opinion. Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.

Pros - 3.86 undergrad GPA, 710 Verbal GRE, 740 Quant GRE, 5.5 GRE W, success in current career (Vice President)

Cons - weak undergrad school (Dowling College), unrelated major (marketing), unrelated career (advertising sales)

Wild Cards - age (32 at time of application), married w/ child

Also, for the writing sample, what are the requirements? I have been out of school for so long that anything I provide from my undergraduate study is basically a product from another person. I have changed greatly in the past 10 years.

Again, thanks in advance for any advice/information.

[rising_star]

I think you should apply to a mix of PhD and master's programs. If you can, take a grad course this fall and do well in it. Or really, take any sociology courses you can, even if they're at a community college.

The writing sample requirements vary by school so it's difficult to say. In general, they're looking for a well-written, well researched piece of academic writing, with the length varying by school. Most people use a revised version of a class paper that they got an A on. You probably don't want to go this route since your papers are 10 years old... Not all schools even require one. Of the seven schools I applied to this year for a PhD, only one asked for a writing sample.

The most important thing for you to do will be to really demonstrate why you want to get a degree in sociology, what you want to study, and why the grad degree is necessary for you in your personal statement.

[Tritonetelephone]

Coming from another end of the spectrum, I can't really help to tell you if you're qualified or not. I applied to PhD programs my senior year before finishing my BA in Sociology, had a similarly good GPA, but I still didn't get into the schools of my choice (didn't even try for top 10). I had a lot of weaknesses, too, though - coming from a very weak UG school, not-so-great GRE, etc. [bTW, you probably already know this, but if those GRE scores are over 5 years old, you have to retake it.]

My best guess is that since you've been out of school for so long, they're going to want to know more about your work experience than your academic experience. Marketing actually sounds like an ideal field to be coming from; you can probably easily explain the sort of experiences you've had with large groups of people and how that has influenced your interest in Sociology. And, like rising star said, you're going to need to really prove that you're serious about wanting and needing the degree for your future goals. That will all be in your personal statement.

The writing sample requirements that I encountered said that it had to be academic and it had to be sociological. 10-20 pages was the limit, so I wrote 14. That was actually the hardest part of my application because I didn't have any papers that long to submit, so I just re-wrote and expanded a qualitative study that I did for my gender class. I guess it still wasn't that great. You're going to be competing with people who already have publications in journals that they can submit (mine was definitely not publishable), so keep that in mind. But some schools won't require one - you can check their websites.

No matter what, I wouldn't worry about your age or family status as much of a factor in Sociology. Some fields (especially medical) do strongly prefer younger applicants, but I work for a graduate school and there are plenty of students like you in both the Library Sciences program (where I work) and the Sociology program. In fact, when I was talking to professors and advisers about applying to PhD programs in Sociology, I got the feeling that my age was much more anomalous. They would always ask how old I was (21) and not really understand why this was so important to me now. Some schools even have a question on their FAQ page about applicants with families. UTexas's site says, "Is your department child and family friendly? -Yes, very much so. Many faculty, staff, and students have children."

Hope this helped! Don't forget that this has all just been my experience, I could be way off on what you might encounter!

[stevemont]

Thank you both. I am trying to find a school that will allow me to take a grad class on a non-degree basis this fall. NYU does not permit it for Sociology, and Rutgers does, but they have no evening or weekend schedules, and I still work full-time (work in NYC, live in NJ). I agree that will help to bolster my case.

As for my GRE scores, they were taken in '07 so they are current.

Any other advice on what prep I should do since I am coming from a completely different field? Also, is my weak undergrad school a killer, or do I still have a shot at a top program?

[rising_star]

You could try CUNY, Columbia, Fordham, etc for grad courses in sociology in NYC. I think even something sociology-related could help. Or, I think courses in sociology at any level could help. Or methodology. Or statistics. All of those are generally prereqs in graduate programs so you could get some of that out of the way and convincingly demonstrate your interest in the subject...

My other advice would be to start thinking now about who will write your recommendations. Make sure they are solid. Try to get at least two academic references, those carry more weight typically.

[SocEE]

I agree with suggestions about taking prerequisite courses.

As I had a situation similar to yours, I'd like to share my 2 cents. You may not have a good chance targeting top-ranking PhD programs right now. You may want to try your chance with doing your Master's first and then proceeding towards PhD.

I finished my Bachelor's in 1998 in Electrical Engineering (which is far more distant from Sociology than your degree in Marketing), worked for a couple of years as an engineer (I'm 35 now) and switched to Sociology in 2006. While my background in a completely non-humanities field was a setback while applying to grad programs in Sociology, I eventually managed to get admission with TA for my Master's. Now, finished with my MA, I'm heading for my PhD this fall. My non-relevant background didn't let me land in schools I dreamed, but I could still get admission with funding to Southern Illinois (which is a good school). For both my MA and PhD applications, I had another issue; as an international student, I had to compete with American students who already had a degree in Sociology.

Doing your switch to Sociology in two stages (MA first, then PhD) has 2 major benefits:

1. You can spend a rather short time (3-4 semesters) and figure out whether you're serious about pursuing this field further. Doing a degree would probably give you a better perspective than merely passing a few courses. Even if you decide not to pursue to a PhD degree, you've not lost much; you've earned a grad degree in a popular field (that you like) and it could be an asset in your CV. For that matter, you may want to target less competitive schools for your Master's to increase your chance with funding.

2. In case you decide to continue, having a Master's degree provides you with the opportunity to do more serious papers (of graduate caliber) and market yourself more successfully when you apply to PhD programs. If you do a great job in your Master's (even in a less than ideal school), you can be hopeful about landing at a far better place for your PhD.

[maroonwings]

I have two bachelor's, one of which is semi-related to sociology, a good undergrad GPA, and good test scores. For reasons unrelated to any of those things, I chose to get an MS in sociology before applying for PhD programs. Because you have been out of school for some time and because you don't have a sociology background, I would suggest getting a master's first. Doing this gave me a much stronger sociology background and (I think) made my PhD applications look more attractive to potential schools. Doing a master's first would also allow you to meet and work with professors who can write recommendations for you. PhD programs really do want to see strong academic recommendations, and it will be much easier for professors to write them for you if they have recently worked intensively with you (for example, on a master's thesis committee).

I don't recall having to write very much for my applications, although some schools did want a copy of my master's thesis. I believe that may have served as my writing sample. The most writing I had to do was for a fellowship application.

Personally I don't think that your undergraduate school alone will doom your chances at a PhD--it's one of many factors on your application. But getting a master's from a respected school should help offset the weak undergrad program.

Don't worry about your age or family status. In my master's program there were people who were well over my parents' age, married people (with and without children), single parents, etc. Of course you will have to juggle school and family time, but with your career, you probably already have a good idea of how to do that.

(Also--funding for master's students isn't impossible to find, although in my experience it was harder to find than funding for a PhD. My husband and I were both fully funded for our master's programs. The secret to this was that we both were hired on assistantships in non-academic departments that were related to our disciplines. If you do need funding for a master's, ask around--you never know where funding might be lurking.)