graduating from a CSU?

[mermaid08]

Hi,

I'm new here and also new to the graduate application process. I am a 3rd year at Cal State University Fullerton and was wondering if anyone here had any information about the chances of a CSU student getting into a high-profile program. I was a double art history and illustration major but have recently decided to focus on just art history so I can pursue my graduate degree in a more timely fashion. I've fallen in love with the idea of getting the duel masters at SAIC for modern art history/museum management.

I recently met with my advisor and she said I should be truly concerned about getting into programs with a undergrad from a CSU. I picked the CSU due to financial reasons but have a strong GPA and am also a gallery coordinator on campus. I'm applying for internships next semester at LACMA and any other LA Region museums. After reading through most of the threads on the site, my freak out level went from moderate to extreme seeing all the wonderful and specific art history concentrations you are all pursuing. We don't really have that as an option at my school and furthermore, there is a lack of genre specific classes in areas like contemporary/modern which is the field I am most interested in. I'm worried with the time I spent on my illustration classes I should have been minoring in french!

So what I'm looking for is advice, how screwed am i? Or with strong writing samples and decent GRE score plus job/internship credit will it all work itself out? Should I cram in some french?

Also, are there any specific programs that are known to focus on history of architecture?

Sorry to load so much into one post, I'd be so grateful for any advice!

[Herbie]

What's wrong with a CSU? My professor went to a CSU, and ended up getting a Ph.D from UCSB in Art History.

You're not screwed. Plus, your advisor's pretty quirky, since I'd take that comment as an indirect burn to the school I'm getting a BA from. I find it unavoidable to not share my situation, since it's always best to get a relative sense of those who aren't idiot savants or the 4.0 from an Ivy/private institution with money to burn.

You're getting the right experience. There's no specific formula to the perfect candidate.

My story: state college in the South (a region stereotyped as dummy central, lackadaisical, slow progressing people) in a Humanities major where the school is known (almost solely) for its MBA program. Went there on the HOPE scholarship as I'm not in a financially sound household where I could freely go out-of-state. Family obligations. Less than stellar undergrad GPA (3.39), ~3.8 major GPA. No internships, no volunteering, no publications, no French minor - all because my entire household shared one car, so it was to school and back, and then walking to work. I don't believe I was nixed for not having an opportunity to do such. Plus, I didn't bring this up in my SOP. Why would I? Though, I did participate with what was in immediate reach - the Art History club, undergraduate conferences, faculty symposia, guest lectures -- even if I just sat there and wasn't part of the organizing group.

Studied for the GRE, got an lolwat score. I worked on my writing sample after my study abroad trip (took out my only loan for that). Finished my writing sample some time in September; worked on my SOPs after that. They were apparently strong enough to give me the results in my signature. I applied to two MLS programs also (in case I wanted to get a paying job to save money if I didn't get funding at other colleges, etc and shoot for a Ph.D later). That's my success story. I was lucky to have a professor who helped guide me along the application process and give comments on my SOPs, though I collaborated with a Master's student in editing my writing sample. For me, the levels of important went -- Statement of Purpose -> Writing Sample -> E-mailing potential advisors -> Creating a professional CV -> Transcripts -> GREs

[mermaid08]

What's wrong with a CSU? My professor went to a CSU, and ended up getting a Ph.D from UCSB in Art History.

You're not screwed. Plus, your advisor's pretty quirky, since I'd take that comment as an indirect burn to the school I'm getting a BA from. I find it unavoidable to not share my situation, since it's always best to get a relative sense of those who aren't idiot savants or the 4.0 from an Ivy/private institution with money to burn.

You're getting the right experience. There's no specific formula to the perfect candidate.

My story: state college in the South (a region stereotyped as dummy central, lackadaisical, slow progressing people) in a Humanities major where the school is known (almost solely) for its MBA program. Went there on the HOPE scholarship as I'm not in a financially sound household where I could freely go out-of-state. Family obligations. Less than stellar undergrad GPA (3.39), ~3.8 major GPA. No internships, no volunteering, no publications, no French minor - all because my entire household shared one car, so it was to school and back, and then walking to work. I don't believe I was nixed for not having an opportunity to do such. Plus, I didn't bring this up in my SOP. Why would I? Though, I did participate with what was in immediate reach - the Art History club, undergraduate conferences, faculty symposia, guest lectures -- even if I just sat there and wasn't part of the organizing group.

Studied for the GRE, got an lolwat score. I worked on my writing sample after my study abroad trip (took out my only loan for that). Finished my writing sample some time in September; worked on my SOPs after that. They were apparently strong enough to give me the results in my signature. I applied to two MLS programs also (in case I wanted to get a paying job to save money if I didn't get funding at other colleges, etc and shoot for a Ph.D later). That's my success story. I was lucky to have a professor who helped guide me along the application process and give comments on my SOPs, though I collaborated with a Master's student in editing my writing sample. For me, the levels of important went -- Statement of Purpose -> Writing Sample -> E-mailing potential advisors -> Creating a professional CV -> Transcripts -> GREs

Ah, it is just such a relief to hear another story. Thanks so much! The professor also made a comment about not being paid enough to teach or grade essays properly either but thats beside the point...

I will definitely look into collaborating with a Master's student! Is there anything else you did to improve your writing samples?

[waddle]

I'm new here and also new to the graduate application process. I am a 3rd year at Cal State University Fullerton and was wondering if anyone here had any information about the chances of a CSU student getting into a high-profile program.

I recently met with my advisor and she said I should be truly concerned about getting into programs with a undergrad from a CSU. I picked the CSU due to financial reasons but have a strong GPA and am also a gallery coordinator on campus.

Some professors may inquire about why you decided to go to a lower-ranked state school (not maliciously, just to try to feel out how qualified you are), but for the most part, I've found that nobody really cares if you can show that you're just as capable (I think objective measures help a bit here, e.g., getting high scores on the GRE General (>1400) & Subject tests). I know or know of dozens of people who have gone on to "top ten" grad schools after graduating from a CSU. (Of course, there are thousands of other students at the CSU who don't end up getting into such places, but that's not your problem.) In fact, I think doing your undergrad at a CSU may actually play to your advantage--if you play your cards right, your letters of recommendation will invariably be better than those that students at e.g., UCs will get; the small class sizes really do help!

[Herbie]

I will definitely look into collaborating with a Master's student! Is there anything else you did to improve your writing samples?

I also took the paper to a technical writing tutor @ my university. We only got through one page, but I would have never written it as clearly without the guidance. Also re-checked out my sources, found some more . . used some of those GRE words. . . I recommend taking a month off before working on your writing sample, so you can go back to it and wonder why you wrote certain things.

[hopelesslypostmodern]

Hi mermaid08!

I think, if your application as a whole is solid, you will have a fair shot. I agree with Chulianne that you should focus on developing a strong SOP and writing sample. Your background working as a gallery coordinator on campus and any other internships you get will look nice for applying to SAIC's museum management program (or, at least I imagine it would). I was advised to get above 1200 composite on the GRE. Of course, higher is better, but if the rest of the application is strong, a baseline of at least 1200 probably won't disqualify you.

Also, if you want to/have time to start learning a language, might I suggest German? Naturally, the languages you will need will depend on what you want to study and how far you want to go (do you eventually want a PhD?), but German has its advantages. At the PhD level, at least, it seems like a fair number of schools (though not all and dependent on interests) want their students to know/learn German. Historically in the late 19th and early 20th c., art history was mainly a German discipline and some of its most important practitioners (like Panofsky, Riegl, Wölfflin) are from German-speaking countries. A fair amount of art historical discourse is written in German (I was recently writing a paper on Italian Renaissance sculpture and kept coming across citations for German texts). It is a pretty important research language and knowing some might make your application distinctive (especially since it seems like more people know French, but I could be mistaken about that).

Of course, I am completely biased about the whole "learn German" thing given my interests and the fact that it has worked out well for me. *shrugs*

About me: I am finishing up my BA at a small liberal arts college. It is good academically, but not necessarily known nationwide. I have a good amount of research experience, but no real experience or honors outside the confines of my college. Regardless, I've been accepted by two PhD programs (one funded) and one of the top MA programs (also funded) in the country. It's a competitive process, but have professors you're close with (and/or grad students) take a close look at your SOP and writing sample and study for the GREs and you can make yourself a competitive candidate. Trust me - there is more to your application than just the name of your undergrad school!

[mermaid08]

Some professors may inquire about why you decided to go to a lower-ranked state school (not maliciously, just to try to feel out how qualified you are), but for the most part, I've found that nobody really cares if you can show that you're just as capable (I think objective measures help a bit here, e.g., getting high scores on the GRE General (>1400) & Subject tests). I know or know of dozens of people who have gone on to "top ten" grad schools after graduating from a CSU. (Of course, there are thousands of other students at the CSU who don't end up getting into such places, but that's not your problem.) In fact, I think doing your undergrad at a CSU may actually play to your advantage--if you play your cards right, your letters of recommendation will invariably be better than those that students at e.g., UCs will get; the small class sizes really do help!

Thanks! All this advice has lifted a weight off my shoulders! It is definitely unfortunate that I went to a CSU to save money and they have raised my tuition every semester since I started.

I also took the paper to a technical writing tutor @ my university. We only got through one page, but I would have never written it as clearly without the guidance. Also re-checked out my sources, found some more . . used some of those GRE words. . . I recommend taking a month off before working on your writing sample, so you can go back to it and wonder why you wrote certain things.

I was just considering buying the GRE flashcards yesterday at Barnes. Did you take any Kaplan testing classes? I just know I'm going to tank the math section.

Hi mermaid08!

I think, if your application as a whole is solid, you will have a fair shot. I agree with Chulianne that you should focus on developing a strong SOP and writing sample. Your background working as a gallery coordinator on campus and any other internships you get will look nice for applying to SAIC's museum management program (or, at least I imagine it would). I was advised to get above 1200 composite on the GRE. Of course, higher is better, but if the rest of the application is strong, a baseline of at least 1200 probably won't disqualify you.

Also, if you want to/have time to start learning a language, might I suggest German? Naturally, the languages you will need will depend on what you want to study and how far you want to go (do you eventually want a PhD?), but German has its advantages. At the PhD level, at least, it seems like a fair number of schools (though not all and dependent on interests) want their students to know/learn German. Historically in the late 19th and early 20th c., art history was mainly a German discipline and some of its most important practitioners (like Panofsky, Riegl, Wölfflin) are from German-speaking countries. A fair amount of art historical discourse is written in German (I was recently writing a paper on Italian Renaissance sculpture and kept coming across citations for German texts). It is a pretty important research language and knowing some might make your application distinctive (especially since it seems like more people know French, but I could be mistaken about that).

Of course, I am completely biased about the whole "learn German" thing given my interests and the fact that it has worked out well for me. *shrugs*

About me: I am finishing up my BA at a small liberal arts college. It is good academically, but not necessarily known nationwide. I have a good amount of research experience, but no real experience or honors outside the confines of my college. Regardless, I've been accepted by two PhD programs (one funded) and one of the top MA programs (also funded) in the country. It's a competitive process, but have professors you're close with (and/or grad students) take a close look at your SOP and writing sample and study for the GREs and you can make yourself a competitive candidate. Trust me - there is more to your application than just the name of your undergrad school!

I've always wanted to learn German since I took 3 years of French in high school, I was not really keen on having to re-learn all the verbs my brain has tucked away in some deep dark place.You may just have pushed me in the right direction.

Wow, thank you all so much for the positive advice. I feeling way less overwhelmed now after reading your responses and all the other threads in the forum.

[Trin]

Hi,

I'm new here and also new to the graduate application process. I am a 3rd year at Cal State University Fullerton and was wondering if anyone here had any information about the chances of a CSU student getting into a high-profile program. I was a double art history and illustration major but have recently decided to focus on just art history so I can pursue my graduate degree in a more timely fashion. I've fallen in love with the idea of getting the duel masters at SAIC for modern art history/museum management.

I recently met with my advisor and she said I should be truly concerned about getting into programs with a undergrad from a CSU. I picked the CSU due to financial reasons but have a strong GPA and am also a gallery coordinator on campus. I'm applying for internships next semester at LACMA and any other LA Region museums. After reading through most of the threads on the site, my freak out level went from moderate to extreme seeing all the wonderful and specific art history concentrations you are all pursuing. We don't really have that as an option at my school and furthermore, there is a lack of genre specific classes in areas like contemporary/modern which is the field I am most interested in. I'm worried with the time I spent on my illustration classes I should have been minoring in french!

So what I'm looking for is advice, how screwed am i? Or with strong writing samples and decent GRE score plus job/internship credit will it all work itself out? Should I cram in some french?

Also, are there any specific programs that are known to focus on history of architecture?

Sorry to load so much into one post, I'd be so grateful for any advice!

I can't help you with your major-specific stuff -- I'm a Religious Studies person -- but I can tell you about a CSU thing. :-) I'm graduating this spring from SJSU. In the fall, I'll be attending Harvard Divinity School (HDS) in pursuit of the MTS there. I did really well on the GRE verbal and writing part, but not as well on the math. I have nearly a 4.0 at SJSU, but a 2.6 overall, because I had a low GPA when I returned to school.

Important to my application were strong recommendations from tenured professors in my major and a good Statement of Purpose. I'm also a really good fit for the program at HDS. In contrast with your advisor, my professors were always optimistic that I could get into a good grad program coming from SJSU. My department actually has a track record of sending folks to HDS -- one every two or three years -- so that helped, maybe.

If I were going to offer advice, I'd suggest talking to your profs about programs they think you'd be a good fit for, instead of just your advisor.

[arthistoryvoe2]

Ah, it is just such a relief to hear another story. Thanks so much! The professor also made a comment about not being paid enough to teach or grade essays properly either but thats beside the point...

I will definitely look into collaborating with a Master's student! Is there anything else you did to improve your writing samples?

This professor sounds like a grade-A asshole, but maybe is dealing with his/her own personal situation. Still, it's really not appropriate to lash out at students based on one's own bitterness, even if that bitterness itself is justified. People from Cal State schools and other comparable schools do get into top programs. If your ultimate goal is a PhD it might be useful to get an MA first (sometimes it is hard for admissions committees to judge what different levels of achievement from schools they're not familiar with "really" mean, and an MA from a program they know can really help).

[losemygrip]

The professor is correct in that it will be harder for you to find admittance than it would someone from, say, Swarthmore. Art history is a snobby world. But you can still get where you want to be in the long run.

If you come into a program already having language skills, that's a huge plus. Get German and French under your belt NOW. That made all the difference for me years ago.

I would also recommend that you apply to some terminal M.A. programs as fall-back schools. Admission is less competitive and you're more likely to receive aid.