Languages?

[id quid]

So I have a smattering of languages, but not any sustained study. In researching programs, I've come across at least one or two departments which seem to imply that serious language study should be complete prior to admission. I'm thinking particularly of UT-Austin, which says "Two years' college credit in a foreign language" is required. That's a bit above and beyond the general wisdom of needing only a "Reading French for Graduate Students" summer course.

Where does one go to get creditable foreign language instruction post-graduation?

[Amalia222]

My thoughts on this subject:

Most grad schools have a basic language requirement-- you have to pass a translation test (hard), or you have to pass a certain level of course (such as an upper-level literature course in that language). However, you have plenty of time to do this, especially in the 5 years it takes to do a Ph.d. In my case, while in my MA program, I was able to audit undergraduate courses by simply getting permission from the prof (usually a TA, especially for entry-level undergraduate courses). It is of course quite a commitment, because the classes are 2-3 times a week, but languages are a piece of cake compared to graduate-level study, so I almost considered doing my language-course homework a "break" from the other stuff I had to do. Within a year or two, you'd be able to pass the language requirement.

If you have time before entering school, I highly recommend taking a summer course or whatnot at a local community college. In general, college courses are always better than independent study, because the simple act of having to SHOW UP and turn stuff in tends to keep you more on task. Much harder to do when you are chillin' at home, debating whether to pick up your course book or watch the latest episode of Survivor... :-) Even if that isn't an option, there are languages courses everywhere. The best ones are with credentialed teachers with training in teaching that language. Never hire a native speaker to teach you (one who isn't a teacher, I mean), because they will not be able to explain grammar or structure elements to you in a clear way.

Since you don't mention how much time you have "post-graduation", I would say fit in as much foreign language study as you can. If you can afford it, go to a country where they speak the language and take an intensive course. There is no better way to pick up a language faster than when nobody around you speaks English (trust me, I know!).

[id quid]

I graduated in '09, but I work full-time at a 9-to-5. Most of the summer courses I've seen are residential and/or intensive, and since I do work full-time they don't fit into my schedule at all.

I do have the time to take some languages from a local CC during the regular term, but since I'm attempting to apply for Fall 2012, they won't really appear on my application. A major plus seems to be having one or two of your languages in advance of admission rather than waiting for time to take it on during graduate studies.

For a different question, then: how necessary is it, really, to have a good command of the languages you need prior to admission?

(As an aside, I am a medievalist, and I know the rules are a little different for medievalists. I'm happy to hear personal experience from everyone in an English program!)

[Amalia222]

I graduated in '09, but I work full-time at a 9-to-5. Most of the summer courses I've seen are residential and/or intensive, and since I do work full-time they don't fit into my schedule at all.

I do have the time to take some languages from a local CC during the regular term, but since I'm attempting to apply for Fall 2012, they won't really appear on my application. A major plus seems to be having one or two of your languages in advance of admission rather than waiting for time to take it on during graduate studies.

For a different question, then: how necessary is it, really, to have a good command of the languages you need prior to admission?

(As an aside, I am a medievalist, and I know the rules are a little different for medievalists. I'm happy to hear personal experience from everyone in an English program!)

As long as you are currently enrolled in a language course, you can mention it in your personal statement as evidence of your desire to learn a language.

Many community college courses are on nights/weekends to accomodate people with jobs. Look into that. If not, consider a private teacher.

I don't think it's necessary to have a good command of the language prior to entering graduate school. During my MA program, nobody ever cared what languages I spoke. They just cared that I got one more check mark on my to-do list (language requirement). I never used my foreign languages for anything, other than taking that one class to complete the requirement. I would say it's not a dealbreaker for admissions, as long as you say you will be able to complete the language requirement in a timely fashion.

[runonsentence]

I graduated in '09, but I work full-time at a 9-to-5. Most of the summer courses I've seen are residential and/or intensive, and since I do work full-time they don't fit into my schedule at all.

I do have the time to take some languages from a local CC during the regular term, but since I'm attempting to apply for Fall 2012, they won't really appear on my application. A major plus seems to be having one or two of your languages in advance of admission rather than waiting for time to take it on during graduate studies.

For a different question, then: how necessary is it, really, to have a good command of the languages you need prior to admission?

(As an aside, I am a medievalist, and I know the rules are a little different for medievalists. I'm happy to hear personal experience from everyone in an English program!)

In my program, there is a language requirement, and you simply have to fulfill it—it may help your application to show that you've made strides toward language proficiency, but I seriously doubt it affected their admission decision.

The measure of having fulfilled it in my program (and I imagine most others) is a translation exam. Some students come in and take the exam without having to take classes; others take anywhere from 1-3 classes before taking the exam. Bottom line: I doubt anyone is going to demand you translate something the moment you walk in the door.

Yes, the rules are usually different for medievalists—the ones I'm friends with from undergrad all took tons of Latin courses, etc. And you're right that it can help with time to degree, etc. But if it's going to turn your life topsy turvy, I personally wouldn't recommend you kill yourself to take some community college language courses. Especially based on my experience in my program. Many of my colleagues fulfilled their language requirement in French, a language they hadn't (or had hardly) studied before.

[Phil Sparrow]

The language issue very much depends on the program. Some of them (like UC Irvine, if I remember correctly) really prize pre-matriculation/application language skills. Others not so much. I began studying a language very important to my area during the application year, taking two semesters of classes at a local college, and 4 out of 5 programs where I was accepted mentioned that as a positive factor when I was admitted (and these are not programs that have a reputation for emphasizing language skills pre-admission). Basically, unless you do poorly in your language classes and it shows up on your transcript, language study can only ever help.

As far as the medieval thing goes, the rules ARE different, and you almost certainly will need to come in with strong skills in Latin upon admission. Other languages (ie, French, Old French, Old English, etc.) will be helpful, depending on your focus, but decent Latin is a MUST for most strong programs. Most of the medievalists I knew went out of their way to include some self-translated Latin in their writing samples to show off their skills in the application. This is not to say that an adcom will expect your Latin to be perfect; as I understand it, the medievalist community as a whole is moving away from the old school hardcore focus on languages. But I wouldn't gamble on that if I were you. If your Latin isn't decent and you are a medievalist, make that your priority.

[id quid]

Thanks for the replies! Languages are a very tricky and ESID matter, I've found, and I appreciate hearing from everyone.

My personal language experience is uneven, to say the least. I've taken 2 semesters of Italian, 1 semester of French, 2 semesters of basic Latin, 1 semester of Medieval Latin, and 2 semesters of graduate-level Old English, as well as several courses with Middle English literature. The lack of modern research languages is what really motivated me to ask after others' experiences. Oh: and that I took Italian and Latin P/NP. I have a personal philosophy that the grade is irrelevant, and it's the command of the language that ultimately matters, but it does leave me in the lurch for "proving" anything at application time.

I've heard that trick of using untranslated sources in the writing sample, and it sounds solid to me (especially given the lack of grades I have for the language courses). I've also heard about taking the SAT II in Latin. How do schools typically feel about independent scholars seeking to take their department's proficiency exams? I mean, I'd be happy to make an appointment with a language department chair to take a graduate-level translation exam, but would it even help? Are they likely to even talk to me about it?

Edited April 4, 2011 by saecla vincere

[Sparky]

I mean, I'd be happy to make an appointment with a language department chair to take a graduate-level translation exam, but would it even help? Are they likely to even talk to me about it?

I doubt it. I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with you *taking* it, but then the profs would have to grade it. Making extra work for the dept is the last thing you want to do. Plus, you don't want to fail it. Taking the SAT II is a good strategy.

But your coursework is probably sufficient, especially if you include self-translated bits in your writing sample. (Citing everything in its source language is essential. The guideline I got from departments when I applied was, if there is a standard published translation, feel free to quote it. But make sure you include the original text in footnotes.) Be sure to include languages on your CV. Also, if you can have one of your LOR writers testify to your language abilities, it would be helpful.

Middle English isn't usually considered a separate language, in my experience.

Most medievalists I know come in to a PhD program claiming intermediate proficiency in at least one modern language. Our actual ability to comprehend scholarship in that language, um, varies.

Since you already have coursework in French, one thing you might do is meet with a tutor once a week or so over the summer and fall, (can you find adjuncts or grad students in French/Italian at a local college or CC?) and in your SOP make some comment along the lines of, "Because medieval French and English literary traditions are so closely intertwined, one of my goals during my year(s) off has been to build on the opportunity I had as an undergraduate to begin studying modern French through more specialized work with an independent tutor" usw usw.