Do you *have* to be a rockstar to get a PhD?

[kickpushcoast]

OK, I've read tons of posts, but I've never posted one of those "profile" things and I'm not sure where to ask this...

I have searched, but I haven't found a situation like mine , so here goes:

I am a "domestic minority" undergraduate student majoring in statistics

Despite my status (non-international, I mean), I'd like to apply to a PhD program in Statistics.

I will have the basic math prereqs, but no real analysis.

Programming-wise, I am fine.

No research. I would *love* to do something on my own using data I can access, but everything I've come up with seems so elementary compared to what goes on in grad school anyway. (How do other students do this? )

Grades-wise, I am "OK"....nothing spectacular.

No GRE yet but I plan to take it this fall. I do not have the background for the Math Subj GRE.

So, from what everyone seems to post here, I don't have a good chance of being admitted directly to a PhD program.

In hopes of increasing my "chances", I was thinking of doing a Masters program online, which is the only way I'd be able to continue to work (and thereby afford the classes).

To answer some questions posed in recent threads: I am not interested in finance, actuarial science, or anything like that. I am interested in teaching, stat consulting, and applied research.

And my goodness, I feel so "exposed' in writing this. I'm not the type to post stuff like this on the internet, but I'd love some advice on my path or alternate paths...and maybe there are other lurkers out there who don't "fit in" here but have the same questions........

Edited April 4, 2011 by kickpushcoast

[newms]

Welcome! I'm not in your field (I'm in CS) but from what you have posted here I don't see any reason why you can't apply directly to a PhD. Why do you say that you don't have a good chance of getting into a PhD program?

[emmm]

You could consider applying to a mix of PhD and MS programs.

Good Luck!

I am proof that you should not just assume you have no shot at an acceptance!

Edited April 4, 2011 by emmm

[kickpushcoast]

Welcome! I'm not in your field (I'm in CS) but from what you have posted here I don't see any reason why you can't apply directly to a PhD. Why do you say that you don't have a good chance of getting into a PhD program?

Thanks for replying! I edited some stuff out because I didn't realize posts on here were permanent (glad I found out before the hour was up!)....

I don't know how to say this , but:

Basically, I have spent days and days and weeks and weeks going through "graduate students" profiles at schools all over the rankings, and many unranked. I am a domestic student, and a minority at that, and most departments have NO domestic students of any kind. So my view is that the spots for domestic students would be the most competitive....I would LOVE to be wrong but that's just from my research (n=probably 300+ students)

On top of that, from the profiles i've seen, I don't really have the super 4.0 GPA, summer research experience, etc that others have. And while my stats course coverage is pretty good, I only have the "minimum" math requirements.

[kickpushcoast]

You could consider applying to a mix of PhD and MS programs.

Good Luck!

I am proof that you should not just assume you have no shot at an acceptance!

wow i just poked around your profile---i am inspired by your success!

[emmm]

Do you still have time to take more math classes at your current school? Or, if you are located somewhere where you could take graduate classes as a non-matriculated student, might you consider delaying your applications for a while to take classes that might help strengthen your application? Or if there are still undergraduate math classes that you could take, you might think about taking them at a CC (not as prestigious as a 4-year school, but generally much cheaper).

In other words, is there any reason to apply now if you think your current background is weak? You are correct in thinking it is an extremely competitive area, but I doubt there are no other domestic students in these programs. Try visiting some programs, if there are schools near you to visit, and ask them how your current credentials stack up and what you might do in the next year or two to make yourself into a more attractive candidate if you are not currently competitive. I did this, and everyone I spoke to was friendly, encouraging, and helpful (and, I believe, quite honest with me about my chances).

And thanks for the congratulations -- yes, I definitely did not take the direct route to where I am now!

[Bruin123]

Thanks for replying! I edited some stuff out because I didn't realize posts on here were permanent (glad I found out before the hour was up!)....

I don't know how to say this , but:

Basically, I have spent days and days and weeks and weeks going through "graduate students" profiles at schools all over the rankings, and many unranked. I am a domestic student, and a minority at that, and most departments have NO domestic students of any kind. So my view is that the spots for domestic students would be the most competitive....I would LOVE to be wrong but that's just from my research (n=probably 300+ students)

On top of that, from the profiles i've seen, I don't really have the super 4.0 GPA, summer research experience, etc that others have. And while my stats course coverage is pretty good, I only have the "minimum" math requirements.

Depending on your area of statistics, major preference is actually given to domestic students. The bias is introduced by the fact that most of the students applying for statistics/biostatistics PhD programs are international students. In my field, biostatistics, the faculty on the admissions committees tend to actually weight more heavily communication skills in English and passion for the subject than just pure mathematics skills, and I know this to be true of several pure statistics departments as well. Being a domestic minority and female will probably work in your favor when applying to graduate programs, not against you. In regards to the math background, in my specific department, if the math/academic/statistics background is lacking for the PhD, many times they'll accept a PhD applicant to the MS program (and later the student can apply to transfer to the PhD after demonstrating success in the MS).

[kickpushcoast]

Do you still have time to take more math classes at your current school? Or, if you are located somewhere where you could take graduate classes as a non-matriculated student, might you consider delaying your applications for a while to take classes that might help strengthen your application? Or if there are still undergraduate math classes that you could take, you might think about taking them at a CC (not as prestigious as a 4-year school, but generally much cheaper).

In other words, is there any reason to apply now if you think your current background is weak? You are correct in thinking it is an extremely competitive area, but I doubt there are no other domestic students in these programs. Try visiting some programs, if there are schools near you to visit, and ask them how your current credentials stack up and what you might do in the next year or two to make yourself into a more attractive candidate if you are not currently competitive. I did this, and everyone I spoke to was friendly, encouraging, and helpful (and, I believe, quite honest with me about my chances).

And thanks for the congratulations -- yes, I definitely did not take the direct route to where I am now!

great suggestions.

I'd have to enroll elsewhere to take more classes....the only class that most admission sites ask for that I won't have by graduation is Real Analysis.

That's why I figured I may as well start doing the master's program online--I can take classes in my field and then have something "more" to boost my profile in another year.

Edited April 5, 2011 by kickpushcoast

[kickpushcoast]

Depending on your area of statistics, major preference is actually given to domestic students. The bias is introduced by the fact that most of the students applying for statistics/biostatistics PhD programs are international students. In my field, biostatistics, the faculty on the admissions committees tend to actually weight more heavily communication skills in English and passion for the subject than just pure mathematics skills, and I know this to be true of several pure statistics departments as well. Being a domestic minority and female will probably work in your favor when applying to graduate programs, not against you. In regards to the math background, in my specific department, if the math/academic/statistics background is lacking for the PhD, many times they'll accept a PhD applicant to the MS program (and later the student can apply to transfer to the PhD after demonstrating success in the MS).

Thanks for your response as well.

This is good to know. I never would have guessed by surveying the school websites....Most sites have a photo gallery or directory of grad students. Only one school (Florida State) seemed to have a balanced (if not domestic-heavy) group of students. Everywhere else was the opposite.

That's what led me to believe that international students were simply much stronger, so no domestic students even got a chance.

[csperson]

Thanks for your response as well.

This is good to know. I never would have guessed by surveying the school websites....Most sites have a photo gallery or directory of grad students. Only one school (Florida State) seemed to have a balanced (if not domestic-heavy) group of students. Everywhere else was the opposite.

That's what led me to believe that international students were simply much stronger, so no domestic students even got a chance.

Schools definitely prefer domestic students. I think some places have a large percentage of internationals simply because not too many Americans applied.

In public schools, domestic students can get in-state tuition and that saves the schools a lot of money. I heard it can cost up to 3 times for a school to fund an international student.

Edited April 5, 2011 by csperson

[kickpushcoast]

Schools definitely prefer to domestic students. I think some places have a large percentage of internationals simply because not too many Americans applied.

In public schools, domestic students can get in-state tuition and that saves the schools a lot of money. I heard it can cost up to 3 times for a school to fund an international student.

That would have been my assumption as well--especially because of visa costs. I was surprised to see such a vast imbalance.

I wonder if there are others like me , who see the majority and get intimidated, assume this isn't for them, and therefore don't apply?

I for one would be happy to be anyone's "cheap american" !!!!!

[csperson]

That would have been my assumption as well--especially because of visa costs. I was surprised to see such a vast imbalance.

I wonder if there are others like me , who see the majority and get intimidated, assume this isn't for them, and therefore don't apply?

I for one would be happy to be anyone's "cheap american" !!!!!

I don't see how visa costs would be a factor though. Visas do not cost that much and schools don't pay for the visas. Students pay for their own visas.

A professor told me that in the admissions process, a BS degree from a lowly ranked school in the US may weigh more than a BS degree from a top school in a foreign country.

[kickpushcoast]

I don't see how visa costs would be a factor though. Visas do not cost that much and schools don't pay for the visas. Students pay for their own visas.

A professor told me that in the admissions process, a BS degree from a lowly ranked school in the US may weigh more than a BS degree from a top school in a foreign country.

sorry, i didn't know......i am not very knowledgeable on the international student process.

wow, where is this professor?????

do you think this is only true for state/public schools?

if so, that would give me a better idea of what to target.....

[csperson]

sorry, i didn't know......i am not very knowledgeable on the international student process.

wow, where is this professor?????

do you think this is only true for state/public schools?

if so, that would give me a better idea of what to target.....

Well, this is just how one professors thinks. I don't know if how many other professors think this way...

[kickpushcoast]

Thanks to all who have replied so far.

Here's something I didn't think of before......a good compromise perhaps is a Certificate of Applied Statistics or whatever they're called at each school--basically a subset of the master's program. No apps for admission (thus no rejection ), and again, I get to prove myself at that level.

I still may take a an analysis class as well, if I can find it somewhere (online I suppose) but depending on when I do it, this information may not be available to put on my applications.

Other than that, FWIW, I will put my all into the GRE....