UK Grad Programs

[Nikksters]

Hi All--

I'm American, and I'm almost certainly going to be applying for MA/MPhil programs in the UK alone--given current climate, I think I'll have a far better chance of getting into a more competitive program in the UK as an international student PLUS I like their teaching model better (I think it will be good training for when I'm a working academic).

My question is this: Does anyone have any insight/advice regarding the Oxford Centre for Visual Studies and history of art program, Cambridge history of art program, Courtauld and Royal College of art? I'm interested in modern and contemporary art, new media and web art, Western (thinking of specializing in Latin America/Caribbean/Cuban?), visual culture, gender, sexuality. (As you can see I'm a bit all over the place at the moment!) For all those for whom this question applies: what do you wish you had known about these programs/studying in the UK BEFORE you got accepted/started your program?

Any substantial programs I'm overlooking?

I know this is a BIIIGGG subject, but any advice and input will be a huge help. Thanks!!

[fullofpink]

Hi All--

I'm American, and I'm almost certainly going to be applying for MA/MPhil programs in the UK alone--given current climate, I think I'll have a far better chance of getting into a more competitive program in the UK as an international student PLUS I like their teaching model better (I think it will be good training for when I'm a working academic).

My question is this: Does anyone have any insight/advice regarding the Oxford Centre for Visual Studies and history of art program, Cambridge history of art program, Courtauld and Royal College of art? I'm interested in modern and contemporary art, new media and web art, Western (thinking of specializing in Latin America/Caribbean/Cuban?), visual culture, gender, sexuality. (As you can see I'm a bit all over the place at the moment!) For all those for whom this question applies: what do you wish you had known about these programs/studying in the UK BEFORE you got accepted/started your program?

Any substantial programs I'm overlooking?

I know this is a BIIIGGG subject, but any advice and input will be a huge help. Thanks!!

Most UK programs don't fund international students -- you may want to take that into a BIG consideration.

Out of those, I believe Courtauld is most respected on a general level. UCL is very close (although that isn't on your list).

Someone who went to an international program gave me good advice - get your degree in the country you want to work. While doing an MA is okay, mostly because it's easy to transfer back to America, obtaining a higher degree may not be advisable unless you want to continue your practice in England. However, a foreigner getting a Visa to work in England is nearly impossible these days because preference is given to British citizens. Just a head's up.

Edited April 12, 2011 by fullofpink

[Nikksters]

Most UK programs don't fund international students -- you may want to take that into a BIG consideration.

Out of those, I believe Courtauld is most respected on a general level. UCL is very close (although that isn't on your list).

Someone who went to an international program gave me good advice - get your degree in the country you want to work. While doing an MA is okay, mostly because it's easy to transfer back to America, obtaining a higher degree may not be advisable unless you want to continue your practice in England. However, a foreigner getting a Visa to work in England is nearly impossible these days because preference is given to British citizens. Just a head's up.

The money thing At the moment, I'm going for a terminal MA, which is a) another reason why I felt ok about going abroad and figured that funding wasn't going to happen in the US either, so that was a write-off.

Since I'm so early on in my research, I'm trying to think about money as an ABSOLUTE last deciding factor....Thankfully I graduated undergrad debt-free, so I have SOME leeway....

I've read a lot about the Courtauld--I had no idea! What about Goldsmiths? Wikipedia gives it fairly decent rankings, and they've gotta have some kind of rep left over from the YBAs, no?

I'm also not seeing very many options for visual culture/studies and lecturers working in contemporary art/new media? Am I not looking hard enough?

[fullofpink]

I've read a lot about the Courtauld--I had no idea! What about Goldsmiths? Wikipedia gives it fairly decent rankings, and they've gotta have some kind of rep left over from the YBAs, no?

I'm also not seeing very many options for visual culture/studies and lecturers working in contemporary art/new media? Am I not looking hard enough?

Goldsmith's History of Art is ranked 17th equal with Cambridge, School of Oriental and African Studies and Aberdee by the RAE in 2008.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2008/dec/18/rae-2008-history-art-architecture-design

Courtauld is second after Glasgow. However, sometimes undergraduate ratings are not useful for graduate programs. I'm not quite sure how this works in England. I hate to say, that I am also not the best to judge programs in contemporary or visual studies. It's not my field and I really do not know much about it. If it had to do with a traditional art history track then maybe.... lol.

I would also like to amend my earlier statement, Courtauld and UCL are probably the most recognized and respected in America. Also, those two programs birth many well-known scholars today. The other programs may not hold much weight with the name. I once informed my DGS that I was interested in going to England for a program and said that Courtauld was my top choice. He said that if I was going, to England, Courtauld should be my only choice. However, a really great scholar in my field is at Courtauld, so it may be useless to go there if they don't have someone in your field. Another program may hold more weight.

Maybe you are searching in the wrong department/school? Try the art schools (not art history) or look in the humanities. You might find more cultural/interdisciplinary fields there.

[violetvivian]

To be perfectly honest (and I know I am simplifying your rationale here), I think you are doing yourself a disservice by limiting yourself to only UK programs based on the level of competition here in the US. Your interests are well-represented at US programs, but frankly, not so much in the UK. Like others have said, the Courtauld is probably your best bet. Based on your interests, I think that Dr. Stallabrass would be a good match for your research (http://www.courtauld.ac.uk/people/stallabrass-julian.shtml). However, if you are concerned about the level of applicant competition, know that the Courtauld is extremely competitive!

At UCL, you might look into the work of TJ Demos or Stephanie Schwartz.

One last point on the UK schools--although you might personally feel like the UK model would be good preparation for working as an academic, that's not generally agreed upon in US programs, and you might find yourself limited to UK teaching positions based on that training.

Like fullofpink suggested, there's a lot in the US that you shouldn't overlook, particularly in some of the nontraditional art history/humanities programs that are cropping up. I'm thinking specifically of visual culture/visual studies programs, and perhaps even some American Studies programs. Some of these programs are standalone and others are housed within traditional AH departments. Take a look at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago's many MA tracks--for instance the MA in visual/critical studies or the MA in modern art history, theory, and criticism. I think there are some really fantastic scholars on faculty at SAIC. NYU also offers visual culture programs (check out Marita Sturken). I could go on and on about this--feel free to message me if you'd like to chat about it more. Good luck!

[Nikksters]

Thanks, everyone. This has been a huge help.

@Greenpen I was looking at Dr. Stallabrass! I think he might be a great match...But you're absolutely right. I am doing myself a disservice not looking at more US programs.

Thanks for the offer of starting a direct message--I think i'll take you up on it! You seem to know your stuff!

[fragonard32]

Former curator and now director of the Metropolitan Museum, Thomas P. Campbell, holds degrees from both Oxford and a PhD from Courtauld.

[brownbear]

This might be a bit late, but if you still have questions about the UK system I could try to help. I'm a British student, and have accepted an offer for the Masters program at Oxford 2011/12. I also got an offer from the Courtauld but decided not to accept in the end.

I don't know about the league tables but the general reputation of Goldsmiths is nowhere near Oxbridge/Courtauld/UCL and some of the other places mentioned. The HoA department at Oxford is relatively young, but there have been art historians there for much longer. It is growing rapidly and has excellent library resources, galleries (Ashmolean) etc. Cambridge is more established, but only offer MPhil (research based) and PhD grad programs, rather than the 'taught MA with dissertation' model used elsewhere. The Courtauld tops them both in the league tables, but only just, and of course lots of other factors at play.

EDIT: disregarding the league tables, my opinion (and that of my professor, with whom I discussed this) is that Oxbridge and Courtauld are the only schools in the UK you should consider. I would consider UCL only as a back up option, unless a professor there really suited my interests, and Glasgow wouldn't even be on my list. Again, these are just the general perceptions of those in the UK. I've noticed that UCL has a better reputation in the US than it does within the UK, however, so it depends on who you want to impress.

Edited May 7, 2011 by brownbear

[Nikksters]

This might be a bit late, but if you still have questions about the UK system I could try to help. I'm a British student, and have accepted an offer for the Masters program at Oxford 2011/12. I also got an offer from the Courtauld but decided not to accept in the end.

I don't know about the league tables but the general reputation of Goldsmiths is nowhere near Oxbridge/Courtauld/UCL and some of the other places mentioned. The HoA department at Oxford is relatively young, but there have been art historians there for much longer. It is growing rapidly and has excellent library resources, galleries (Ashmolean) etc. Cambridge is more established, but only offer MPhil (research based) and PhD grad programs, rather than the 'taught MA with dissertation' model used elsewhere. The Courtauld tops them both in the league tables, but only just, and of course lots of other factors at play.

EDIT: disregarding the league tables, my opinion (and that of my professor, with whom I discussed this) is that Oxbridge and Courtauld are the only schools in the UK you should consider. I would consider UCL only as a back up option, unless a professor there really suited my interests, and Glasgow wouldn't even be on my list. Again, these are just the general perceptions of those in the UK. I've noticed that UCL has a better reputation in the US than it does within the UK, however, so it depends on who you want to impress.

Brownbear, you're not late at all! And yeah, at this point I've taken a total 180 and i'm down to only considering the Courtauld (go figure!). I'm really interested in Courtauld bc of Dr. Stallabrass. (Haven't found anyone with similar interests (new media art, esp net art) at Oxford though..?)

I'm curious--Why did you turn down Courtauld in favor of Oxford?

[brownbear]

Brownbear, you're not late at all! And yeah, at this point I've taken a total 180 and i'm down to only considering the Courtauld (go figure!). I'm really interested in Courtauld bc of Dr. Stallabrass. (Haven't found anyone with similar interests (new media art, esp net art) at Oxford though..?)

I'm curious--Why did you turn down Courtauld in favor of Oxford?

It was a difficult decision, and both are excellent options. One of the main reasons is that jobs in the art world in the UK are at an all time low. I know academia/galleries/museums are tough to get into anywhere, but the situation really is awful here. I have friends in the States getting internships at prestigious museums relatively easily, but opportunities (and salaries) in the arts sector in Britain are being savagely cut, as the government is trying to reduce its deficit. I felt that an Oxford degree would open more doors outside the art world, whereas most employers haven't heard of the Courtauld.

I also think I'm better prepared for the course at Oxford, it's more in line with stuff I've been working on in the last two years. And finally, the prospect of living in a beautiful ancient college and biking to class is much more appealing than living in a shared flat in overcrowded London and travelling underground every day.

[seriousmeasure]

This might be a bit late, but if you still have questions about the UK system I could try to help. I'm a British student, and have accepted an offer for the Masters program at Oxford 2011/12. I also got an offer from the Courtauld but decided not to accept in the end.

I don't know about the league tables but the general reputation of Goldsmiths is nowhere near Oxbridge/Courtauld/UCL and some of the other places mentioned. The HoA department at Oxford is relatively young, but there have been art historians there for much longer. It is growing rapidly and has excellent library resources, galleries (Ashmolean) etc. Cambridge is more established, but only offer MPhil (research based) and PhD grad programs, rather than the 'taught MA with dissertation' model used elsewhere. The Courtauld tops them both in the league tables, but only just, and of course lots of other factors at play.

EDIT: disregarding the league tables, my opinion (and that of my professor, with whom I discussed this) is that Oxbridge and Courtauld are the only schools in the UK you should consider. I would consider UCL only as a back up option, unless a professor there really suited my interests, and Glasgow wouldn't even be on my list. Again, these are just the general perceptions of those in the UK. I've noticed that UCL has a better reputation in the US than it does within the UK, however, so it depends on who you want to impress.

hi brownbear, im from the uk doing my BA and looking to where to go for my MA. obviously I would love to get in to either Oxford or Courthauld, have you got any advice as someone who has gone through the application process and been successful? I know that's a pretty general question but i still have a 4th year left on my BA so am only at the beginning of research. I hope to get a first in my BA but I am (only!) at Reading and wondering if I have any chance at all at such prestigious schools.

[brownbear]

hi brownbear, im from the uk doing my BA and looking to where to go for my MA. obviously I would love to get in to either Oxford or Courthauld, have you got any advice as someone who has gone through the application process and been successful? I know that's a pretty general question but i still have a 4th year left on my BA so am only at the beginning of research. I hope to get a first in my BA but I am (only!) at Reading and wondering if I have any chance at all at such prestigious schools.

Hi - yeah definitely go for that first, I know the requirements say 2:1 but unless you have some extraordinary extracurriculars, you'll need evidence of first class work. So great recommendation letters (3 for oxford), and a well crafted personal statement are important too. I spent months on my statement before submitting. A good personal statement addresses specific interests you have - rather than vague stories of how you love art history - to show that you have focus. Show evidence that you've read widely and deeply, without namedropping too much. Going to Reading shouldn't hold you back - if you get a first, you'll have a better chance than a UCL applicant with a 2:1. let me know if I can help further, best of luck

Edited May 26, 2011 by brownbear

[Nikksters]

Hey all--I need some clarification/confirmation. Does the Courtauld allow you to apply for a terminal PhD program without having an MA? Or do you have to apply for the MA program and then reapply for the PhD..? How does this work? Judging from the website I'm not so sure...

[Nikksters]

Also for anyone interested in new media art: any thoughts on University of Lancaster taught PhDs (been speaking with Charlie Gere) and/or Unversity of Sunderland curating new media?

[laurenmae130]

Anyone have any info about UCL's Econ program? I'm wondering if I have the chops to get in. I am a bit broke and eon't want to waste the application fee otherwise! Thanks

[jakebarnes]

This is the Art History forum. You want to be here — http://forum.thegradcafe.com/forum/34-economics/

Edited January 6, 2012 by jakebarnes