LORs from Previous Degree Program?

[coffeekid]

I am completing a two-year masters in a discipline (religion) where a masters is a prerequisite for doctoral applications. I'll be applying to Ph.D.s in the Fall.

Two people whom I trust (an advisor and a graduate student in my field) told me a while back that it was expected or the norm that, of the required three LORs to Ph.D. programs, two of those three should be from your most recent program (the masters) and one should be from your last institution before that (undergrad). A student in the Ph.D. program at my university told me pretty adamantly, however, that it's unwise to include any recommenders from other than the program you are currently in.

Who is right here? I can make a simple case for both sides: [the former] not only did you established strong relations with your undergrad faculty over the course of four years, but admissions committees want to hear positive remarks about all stages of your academic training; [the latter] masters level work is an entirely new stage for academic work, not only do adcoms want a reflection on your performance in that higher level setting, but they want to hear recommendations according to your most current work, which is what you'll be continuing at the doctoral level. It seems like there are many variables that can decide the dilemma for me (strength of the institutions, reputation of the faculty, compatibility of research interests between recommender and where you're applying).

That being said, and considering the fact that my particular situation equally plays to both directions in terms of the above variables, is there any prevailing wisdom on drawing from older, undergraduate recommenders for people applying from masters to doctoral? I thought I knew, but the person with whom I had the conversation recently was pretty convinced otherwise.

[Teelee]

Really doesn't matter, the people who knows you best should write your letters. I do think current prof will write you a stronger LoR because they know you the best as a graduate student.

[coffeekid]

Really doesn't matter, the people who knows you best should write your letters. I do think current prof will write you a stronger LoR because they know you the best as a graduate student.

By and large, I think you're right. Unfortunately, my situation is one where all of these people know me similarly well. I have four people in mind: three grad, one undergrad. Some places will accept a fourth recommender and I may use all four for those, but some will only take three.

Maybe another way of asking the question is this way: assuming you had four letters to choose from, all equally luminous and personable and from people of equal reputation in your field, and could only pick three (3 grad, 1 undergrad), which one would you scrap? I know that sounds odd, but that's sort of the situation I'm in, which I guess isn't so bad to be in. Again, the only thing that has me thinking about this so much if the guy in the doctoral department here (who obviously got in) strongly advised against submitting an undergrad LOR.

I'm probably overthinking this. I'm mostly wondering if he had legitimate reason to be so adamant about not submitting the undergrad.

[peppermint.beatnik]

I can make a simple case for both sides: [the former] not only did you established strong relations with your undergrad faculty over the course of four years, but admissions committees want to hear positive remarks about all stages of your academic training;

I completed a masters prior to applying to Ph.D. programs. I used two referees from my masters, and one from my undergrad. The reason I decided to obtain an LOR from my undergrad advisor is precisely the reason you mention above: "admissions committees want to hear positive remarks about all stages of your academic training." In my case, it was to establish that I had developed an approach to scholarship, while in undergrad, that I continued at the graduate level.

I was successful in applying to programs, but, of course, I can't say the undergrad LOR was the reason, only that it didn't hold me back.

Edited April 14, 2011 by peppermint.beatnik

[BrandNewName]

I have been out of undergrad for four years, but submitted my applications with two letters from undergrad professors (a thesis adviser and a wonderful professor-turned-friend from my undergrad institution working in a similar field) and one letter from my most recent adviser/boss.

I didn't have much choice in the matter as the number of professors in German academic departments is much smaller than in the States, but there was another option I considered here. Well-known academic who knew my writing, but didn't necessarily know me that well.

When it came down to it, I decided that I wanted letters from the two people who knew my writing and research skills the best. For the third, I went for someone who I knew liked me personally and was acquainted with the specific field I was interested in/knew people in those programs. I had only taken one class and produced one paper with him though; not much, but we have kept up via email and Facebook since graduation.

Of my 10 applications, 4 were successful. Among them was a program that specifically stated that two of the three letters had to be from the most recent institution. Broke that rule without explanation and they still let me in. If the letters are good and from academics, I don't think they'll care too much.

In short, pick the person from undergrad and the person from your MA who know your work the best (most likely your thesis advisers). For the third letter, pick a professor who knows and believes in your ability, yes, but also someone who genuinely knows and likes you.

[Teelee]

I personally believe MS work is more relevant than undergrad work when applying to a PhD program.