What should I do? Need some perspective.

[going crazy]

I was accepted off of the wait-list at Chicago, but the funding wasn't what I'd hoped for. It's the 2nd tier funding package where they provide full tuition and healthcare for 5 years, but they don't provide a stipend until after the first 2 years. I'm also in at Yale with terrific funding for 5 years, but it is decidedly lower in the rankings. My fit with either program is about the same.

So what would you do in my shoes? Other things being equal, would you go to the lower ranked school with the awesome funding? Or go to the really high-ranking school with the less-than-stellar funding? Help give me some perspective here.

[lyonessrampant]

I was at Chicago for my MA, so I can tell you it is an awesome school and I loved it, but Yale can't be that much lower in the rankings, can it? I mean it's an Ivy, super well respected, and I would guess might be more well known internationally if you're going to end up outside the US. Without more context about program or at least field, it can be hard to make recommendations. However, if you live on the South side (live as close to UC as possible if you do), you can find a studio or one-bedroom for 700 or 800 (at least you could in 2007/8). Cost of living is pretty high, though, so you're looking at taking on quite a bit of debt to live in Chicago. I have no idea how much it costs to live in New Haven, but I'd guess it is less than Chicago. The money seems to say go to Yale. You have an enviable problem Best of luck on your decision!

[agis382]

hi there... congrats on your acceptances! i'm a fourth year phd soc student so i can tell you what i've "heard" and the general outside thoughts on both programs but as i'm sure you've been told, it's YOUR decision.

the chicago soc program is known for being cut-throat. i would say there and ucla are the most notorious for such an environment. i don't know if this is something that matters to you but some find it difficult to work in a place like that. also, yale is pretty small compared to chicago so the environments will certainly be different.

chicago is most certainly ranked higher than yale (i would guess top 5 versus top 12) but rankings in soc phd programs are tricky - they're both good. chicago might open some more doors for you but so long as you do good work you'll be positioned well for the job market no matter where you go.

the money issue... the last thing you want to worry about when you're getting your phd is money. worrying about money or finding ways to make more money distract you from the purpose of why you're in school: to get your degree, which means writing LOTS. not having funding can actually prolong the amount of time it takes for you to get your degree because you'll be trying to survive rather than actually get your work done. i've seen this happen to lots of my fellow grad students... and it plays a role in why people end up dropping out of phd programs - especially soc programs where the avg time to degree is seven/eight years.

hope this is helpful - if i can help any more feel free to message me. i wish someone would've helped me when i was making my decision!

I was accepted off of the wait-list at Chicago, but the funding wasn't what I'd hoped for. It's the 2nd tier funding package where they provide full tuition and healthcare for 5 years, but they don't provide a stipend until after the first 2 years. I'm also in at Yale with terrific funding for 5 years, but it is decidedly lower in the rankings. My fit with either program is about the same.

So what would you do in my shoes? Other things being equal, would you go to the lower ranked school with the awesome funding? Or go to the really high-ranking school with the less-than-stellar funding? Help give me some perspective here.

[barilicious]

If you haven't already, though I'm sure you have, but have you looked at recent job placements of PhDs coming out of UofC and PhDs coming out of Yale? Are people coming out of UofC getting WAY better jobs that is worth taking 2 years of loans for? I'd assume not, but I could be wrong.

[rf1979]

UofC is ranked much higher than Yale for Sociology, although Yale of course has a much higher general "prestige" factor, particularly among those who aren't in academia, because it is an Ivy. I have also heard that UofC can be cutthroat, because the department basically structures the program in a way that grad students have to compete for funding. Academic placements among Yale PhDs have been notably less impressive than UofC.

I would say if you were really concerned about getting an academic job after receiving your PhD, go to UofC. If you are more risk-averse and would consider jobs outside of academia, go to Yale.

[jacib]

On 4/14/2011 at 8:17 PM, rf1979 said:

UofC is ranked much higher than Yale for Sociology, although Yale of course has a much higher general "prestige" factor, particularly among those who aren't in academia, because it is an Ivy. I have also heard that UofC can be cutthroat, because the department basically structures the program in a way that grad students have to compete for funding. Academic placements among Yale PhDs have been notably less impressive than UofC.

I would say if you were really concerned about getting an academic job after receiving your PhD, go to UofC. If you are more risk-averse and would consider jobs outside of academia, go to Yale.

First of all, I'd argue that Chicago is ranked *much* higher than Yale. Check out an old post on

The Yale department was very troubled in the past (like thirty, forty years ago). Yale's department apparently nearly shut down when WUSTL and Rochester shut theirs down (the only two sociology departments that shut down, I think). It has a good reputation, but it concentrates heavily in a few areas. I forget what they are, but let's say it's something like culture, historical/comparative, and urban/poverty/strat-y stuff. Maybe race was in there too. Anyway, a former Yale faculty member once told me that their strategy was focusing on getting strong in three areas. I do historical/comparative and know that they're very good at that. But still, it has a reputation of a somewhat "rebuilding" program. Because it's relatively lowly ranked for a Yale program, I've heard rumors that the school is aggressively trying to improve it---with mixed success so far. I haven't heard anyone argue that it's getting worse. The former faculty member I talked to was somewhat skeptical of the focusing on a few core areas strategy, it seemed. I don't think the bouncing around on the rankings above represents anything more than random noise.

So yeah, I'd say Chicago vs. Yale is more like a top-5 program vs a top-25 program than a top-5 vs. a top-12 program. Of course, for reasons that others have mentioned, Yale is not your typical top-25 program, and especially if you do work in one of their core areas, I wouldn't be surprised if they placed people in jobs better than that of a typical "top 25" program. Against the last poster, for graduate programs across the board, I'd say there isn't much prestige difference between Chicago and Yale. I'd assume in Chicago, kids are getting noticeably better jobs, though in certain subfields with certain advisers, they may be more evenly matched. Still, in sociology, Chicago will always be Chicago... which in part means it will always have one of the best reputations period...and will do things (especially its ethnographic stuff) the "Chicago way". You may like that way, you may not like that way. I mean, a lot of huge ethnographic bad-asses have come out of Chicago program (Mitch Dunier, Sudhir Venkatesh, Loic Wacquant off the top of my head) but I've also heard a lot of people talk about work coming out of Chicago, somewhat disparagingly, referred to just as "very Chicago". If you talk to graduate students in your subfield, see if they feel restricted or anything by "the Chicago school". If you're doing something not ethnographic, or even maybe not doing something urban-ethnographic, it's a little bit different, I gather, though I can't be sure. I'd also imagine Chicago has more events and lectures, more people coming through, etc. Personally, I'd also prefer to be in a city, and while Hyde Park isn't a city, you can at least live near buses that will take you into the city (and you can easily move into Chicago proper after you finished your course work). Talk to students with the same adviser that you will have. Try to see the placements for people with the adviser that you will have (if you know).

The Chicago money thing--sucks, and I generally don't think it's fair to offer two tiers of funding in one program (it creates a fucked up class system of students; there's no way for that not to breed some resentment, seriously), but it's basically "You pay for the masters, we cover the rest", which isn't so bad. I have many friends who are getting completely unfunded, no tuition remission stand-alone sociology masters degrees right now in order to look better for PhD apps. Ultimately, it comes down to which will make you happier over the next five, ten, twenty years. My dad teaches at a smaller program that only admits a couple of graduate students a year, and generally the graduate students go on to teach at small places. It's so small it doesn't even make sense to talk about it as being ranked. Still, he's had some students turn down top-10 schools to go there because they know they'd be happier, they want to avoid the crazy environment entirely. For me and my own priorities, career-wise and not, all else being equal, I'd lean towards Chicago (assuming you've visited, which you probably haven't if they just let you in), but if Yale just "felt" better when I visited, I'd go to Yale. Also, one of my close friends is starting at the Yale PhD program next year and she's awesome. So you'd have that to look forward to at Yale.

Also try to renegotiate your funding package! Say to Chicago, "Look, I really want to go to Chicago, but it feels silly when Yale is offering me a full ride. Is there anything you can do to improve this? I think I could swing one year unfunded, but two might be hard..." something like that. Try to make it as much about money as possible, because they hate seem to hate people choosing based on money. When I was thinking about flying to visiting day to my school after I was admitted, I was coming from Turkey. That's like $800-$1000 for the ticket, something like that. They initially offered me only the $300 reimbursement that American students get, and then they upped that to the $500 international students get (because though I am America, I was living internationally--make sense). Then without trying to bargain, when the DGS was like, "So we'll see you at graduate visit day, right?" and I was like "Well, I don't know, I don't even know if I can get the time off work and the flights are more than $500 dollars, and I don't know if I want to spend the money" and then he very quickly said, "Well, I'd hate to see you miss out on this just because of money" and arranged so that my entire flight would be reimbursed. I saw the Chair do a similar thing with another student at visit day. He asked her, "What can we do to get you to come here?" and she said, "Well, [another school] offered me a computer..." and the Chair just said, "I'll see what I can do" (I never asked if she actually got the computer). Obviously, a couple of thousand dollars stipend is different from a couple of hundred dollars for sundry expenses, but see if you can leverage your Yale offer into a better offer from Chicago.

[going crazy]

Thanks to all. Really good thoughts. In the end, I concluded that the fit was better at Chicago. Also, my wife (very fortunately for me) has the sort of professional training where she can pretty much pick up a job wherever. That will allow us to weather the two years of no stipend without resorting to loans. Also, having looked at housing in both New Haven and Chicago, I found Chicago to be quite a bit cheaper. Anyways, thanks again for the thoughts!