Harvard PhD Engineering

[HassE]

Hey all,

I know most of you don't respect Harvard for it's engineering degree, however, after I complete my masters in EE i plan on applying to Harvard for it's PhD Engineering.

Frankly, combined with the name and the long list of entrepreneurs graduated from there, I feel networks wise I'll be in prime position to be in the atmosphere of a entrepreneurial community.

I plan on doing R&D with hopes of either two things. Become a Chief Technology Officer planning a companies future with advanced technology,

OR

An entrepreneur starting a company off with a research idea I came up with.

What's it take to get into Harvard engineering? Have to imagine it would be much easier compared to Stanford engineering, but then again Stanford accepts many more students than Harvard.

[HassE]

Hey all,

I know most of you don't respect Harvard for it's engineering degree, however, after I complete my masters in EE i plan on applying to Harvard for it's PhD Engineering.

Frankly, combined with the name and the long list of entrepreneurs graduated from there, I feel networks wise I'll be in prime position to be in the atmosphere of a entrepreneurial community.

I plan on doing R&D with hopes of either two things. Become a Chief Technology Officer planning a companies future with advanced technology,

OR

An entrepreneur starting a company off with a research idea I came up with.

What's it take to get into Harvard engineering? Have to imagine it would be much easier compared to Stanford engineering, but then again Stanford accepts many more students than Harvard.

no one???

[adelashk]

Anyone who doesn't respect an engineering PhD from Harvard should not be posting in this forum. Seems like your career path would eventually take you to management. I suggest exploring business school instead. The road to holding a PhD, coming up with an idea, creating your own company is not easy. From your plan, first you need to get into Harvard, work in an industry relevant research area, graduate, come up with a technology that is feasible and interesting enough for the market, obtain funding, and succeed through the first year. Keep in mind that most startups fail the first year or two. Your future plan is very shallow and has no clear path. "I want to get a PhD from an IVY/top school to be a CTO of a company or start a successful company" is not what successful people with PhDs had in mind when applying to grad school. You need to rethink what your end goal is.

Edited April 20, 2011 by adelashk

[HassE]

Anyone who doesn't respect an engineering PhD from Harvard should not be posting in this forum. Seems like your career path would eventually take you to management. I suggest exploring business school instead. The road to holding a PhD, coming up with an idea, creating your own company is not easy. From your plan, first you need to get into Harvard, work in an industry relevant research area, graduate, come up with a technology that is feasible and interesting enough for the market, obtain funding, and succeed through the first year. Keep in mind that most startups fail the first year or two. Your future plan is very shallow and has no clear path. "I want to get a PhD from an IVY/top school to be a CTO of a company or start a successful company" is not what successful people with PhDs had in mind when applying to grad school. You need to rethink what your end goal is.

thanks for you response. I appreciate your feedback, however i think you have it mistaken. Just because someone wants to explore the business side, does not mean they lose all credentials on their engineering. As mentioned, I said I wanted to work in R&D with the hopes of eventually becoming a CTO years later. If your not clear what a Chief Technology Officer is or does, let me refresh your memory. They are the main ones who direct the future of the company in terms of research and engineering.

I also said I wouldn't mind creating a possible business venture with an idea i've created. In order to start a business, you need to understand a business, which is partly what education will do.

"I want to get a PhD from an IVY/top school to be a CTO of a company or start a successful company"....I also never said this either nor was this my main goal or reason.

One thing we all need to remember, is WHY are you doing what your doing. Myself? I have a goal or dream. Will i ever accomplish that? Probably not. So if I shoot high, and get above-average, then great.

My question was not placed as a way for you to evaluate what I'm doing. My question was HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO GET INTO HARVARD.

I was already accepted into Michigan and Brown, but like the dean of electrical from Michigan told me, All these top 30 schools are going to teach you the same thing. You go to these schools to get that powerful name.

Edited April 20, 2011 by hasseye

[adelashk]

My question was not placed as a way for you to evaluate what I'm doing. My question was HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO GET INTO HARVARD.

Then why not ask that question directly instead of giving a whole intro about your future plan?

To answer your question, it is very difficult to get into Harvard.Getting into a higher ranked program than Harvard does not necessarily mean you have a good shot getting into Harvard, it only means you are probably qualified. Good luck at Michigan.

Edited April 20, 2011 by adelashk

[HassE]

Then why not ask that question directly instead of giving a whole intro about your future plan?

To answer your question, it is very difficult to get into Harvard.Getting into a higher ranked program than Harvard does not necessarily mean you have a good shot getting into Harvard, it only means you are probably qualified. Good luck at Michigan.

my most likely scenario is going to acquire a MS first. Do a thesis and try to get top grades. Then apply to Harvard and others and see what happens.

[adelashk]

my most likely scenario is going to acquire a MS first. Do a thesis and try to get top grades. Then apply to Harvard and others and see what happens.

Read into what Harvard looks at when considering PhD applicants. Some schools give a lot of weight to GPA/GRE, others to thesis adviser, and some exclusively at research done. My advice is to contact current students since the admissions office usually tries to be politically correct (i.e. we look at everything). For your MS try to do research that is relevant to research done at Harvard. Also, I would rather consider Stanford due to its entrepreneurship spirit along with being in a major R&D hub.

[HassE]

Read into what Harvard looks at when considering PhD applicants. Some schools give a lot of weight to GPA/GRE, others to thesis adviser, and some exclusively at research done. My advice is to contact current students since the admissions office usually tries to be politically correct (i.e. we look at everything). For your MS try to do research that is relevant to research done at Harvard. Also, I would rather consider Stanford due to its entrepreneurship spirit along with being in a major R&D hub.

I'm from the Boston, MA area so if I were to do my PhD, i'd want to try and stay closer around my family. However, Stanford is obviously on the list. To me, it just seems like it will be harder to get into Stanford than Harvard.

My list includes:

Harvard

Stanford

Carnegie Melon/Portugal Dual PhD

Princeton

and maybe Yale

If i get rejects from all of them, then most likely i'll just stay and continue on at the PhD other than MS.

"My advice is to contact current students since the admissions office usually tries to be politically correct (i.e. we look at everything)." Thank you for that. That is very good advice as well.

[adelashk]

I'm from the Boston, MA area so if I were to do my PhD, i'd want to try and stay closer around my family. However, Stanford is obviously on the list. To me, it just seems like it will be harder to get into Stanford than Harvard.

My list includes:

Harvard

Stanford

Carnegie Melon/Portugal Dual PhD

Princeton

and maybe Yale

If i get rejects from all of them, then most likely i'll just stay and continue on at the PhD other than MS.

"My advice is to contact current students since the admissions office usually tries to be politically correct (i.e. we look at everything)." Thank you for that. That is very good advice as well.

What about MIT or Berkeley? I think you should add more universities to your list. PhD is not easy to get into let alone at these schools... BUT it's highly unpredictable, if you read some posts here there are people getting rejected from every school only to be admitted into their highest ranked school, Harvard/Stanford/etc...

[mechengr2000]

To directly answer your question:

Harvard most heavily weighs GPA/Coursework because they KILL their grad students with coursework. I have a friend going through this right now. They give loads and loads of homework. Since they see coursework as such a high priority, you will need something near or at 4.0 GPA to get in. I would say thats more important to them than research experience.

Getting into grad schools is not a "linear process." Meaning that just because you can get into the schools ranked #1-5 does not mean you can get into the ones ranked #10-15. Do not see them as numbers. Each institution has a wildly different style, and are each looking for something qualitatively specific and unique. For Harvard, that is GPA. For other school X, that is research experience. For school Y, that is teaching experience. For school Z, that is industry experience. Each school is totally different about this, and NOT UPFRONT about what they are looking for. If you want to know what school N is looking for, you are best off asking us or current grad students at that institution. If you call admissions dept and ask them what are their priorities, I bet you that they will not give you this detail. (I have tried asking them and other schools, and they do not tell. One school added that we as students should just do what comes naturally to us, and not try to do anything to please them, so that both parties are happy. I think that is golden advice.)

To add my two cents that you are not asking for:

When someone is looking to hire a person for a position, do you think they are going to look for who can do that job the best and put the company ahead, or just look for alumni? I think you are over estimating the power of an alumni network. Alumni can get you interviews. Alumni can get you jobs where the jobs are cushy and the person is not expected to actually be able to do anything hard, unique, or special. But being a startup founder or CTO of a competitve business requires something special, so please make sure you consider that. Also consider that a major portion of Harvard's Engineering faculty does not hold engineering degrees. They mostly hold science or math degrees. This will make it hard for you to learn how to develop technology from them. (Again, look at qualitative aspects like this when you consider programs.)Good luck with your decisions and goals!! I wish you the best!!

Edited April 21, 2011 by mechengr2000

[mechengr2000]

my most likely scenario is going to acquire a MS first. Do a thesis and try to get top grades. Then apply to Harvard and others and see what happens.

This sounds, at first, like a BAD idea. Applying to MS programs is very difficult. Why not apply for PhD first? Schools generally hate taking MS-only students, and will not fund them. Again, that's in general.

[mechengr2000]

I was already accepted into Michigan and Brown, but like the dean of electrical from Michigan told me, All these top 30 schools are going to teach you the same thing. You go to these schools to get that powerful name.

Many schools "milk" their name and use it as an excuse to give you a darn horrible experience for 4-6 years. The name is not going to mean you automatically beat every other candidate when applying for jobs. Read reviews on Yelp of big name universities, and see the awful reviews they get. Read the specific details. Some of these universities do things that are detrimental to your development in your career, and severely hold you back from gaining meaningful positions. Investigate. Only suckers are naive. You have set lofty goals and you can obtain them if you keep shrewd and focussed about it. Good luck, again!

Edited April 21, 2011 by mechengr2000

[HassE]

Thank you for all the comments guys. I appreciate it.

To give feedback, I applied to the MS at Brown/Michigan/Ohio State/USC and was accepting into all of their programs. I did not think my GPA was high enough (3.5) to apply to the PhD at those top schools, never mind the likes of Harvard etc.

I applied to the PhD at some lower tier schools, University of Iowa (ranked 60th), and Michigan State and most likely am planning on going to the University of Iowa.

There not comparable to the likes of Brown/Michigan/OSU/USC, however Iowa is providing me with funding. I plan to go there to exceptionally well and complete a thesis. Depending on how much I enjoy it there all depends then whether I will continue doing my PhD there or go off to another school.

The reason why I don't plan on applying to just the heavy engineering school (MIT) is simply because MIT is the best at what they do which attracts thousands of applicants. I personally would rather the smaller engineering program at Harvard/Princeton compared to the much larger one at MIT, neither do I think I can get accepted there either.

Stanford attracted me due to being in or near silicon valley, the heart of engineering job city. Likewise, the odds of me getting accepted into the one of the Best in the world reduces my odds.

If I complete the MS and still feel the desire to continue to the PhD yet get rejected from all 5 schools, then I'll remain at the University of Iowa and finish it there.

Edited April 21, 2011 by hasseye

[HassE]

To directly answer your question:

Harvard most heavily weighs GPA/Coursework because they KILL their grad students with coursework. I have a friend going through this right now. They give loads and loads of homework. Since they see coursework as such a high priority, you will need something near or at 4.0 GPA to get in. I would say thats more important to them than research experience.

Getting into grad schools is not a "linear process." Meaning that just because you can get into the schools ranked #1-5 does not mean you can get into the ones ranked #10-15. Do not see them as numbers. Each institution has a wildly different style, and are each looking for something qualitatively specific and unique. For Harvard, that is GPA. For other school X, that is research experience. For school Y, that is teaching experience. For school Z, that is industry experience. Each school is totally different about this, and NOT UPFRONT about what they are looking for. If you want to know what school N is looking for, you are best off asking us or current grad students at that institution. If you call admissions dept and ask them what are their priorities, I bet you that they will not give you this detail. (I have tried asking them and other schools, and they do not tell. One school added that we as students should just do what comes naturally to us, and not try to do anything to please them, so that both parties are happy. I think that is golden advice.)

Thank you for this advice, I will surely use it for my future decisions. What engineering program is your friend in? Is he in a graduate program? Electrical Engineering?

Harvard is heavy on GPA, how much do they value GRE scores? Although I will need to retake them again if I plan to leave Iowa to go to other PhD programs, I am a very bad GRE tester.

Thanks for your very good advice.

[mechengr2000]

Thank you for this advice, I will surely use it for my future decisions. What engineering program is your friend in? Is he in a graduate program? Electrical Engineering?

Harvard is heavy on GPA, how much do they value GRE scores? Although I will need to retake them again if I plan to leave Iowa to go to other PhD programs, I am a very bad GRE tester.

Thanks for your very good advice.

My friend is a PhD student in Physics there.

You definitely need ~800 on the Math section of GRE. Even very low ranking programs will scoff at an application that isnt near 800 Math. 6% of people who take the GRE get a perfect 800 on the Math section, so it looks bad if you don't.

Edited April 21, 2011 by mechengr2000

[mechengr2000]

To give feedback, I applied to the MS at Brown/Michigan/Ohio State/USC and was accepting into all of their programs. I did not think my GPA was high enough (3.5) to apply to the PhD at those top schools, never mind the likes of Harvard etc.

I applied to the PhD at some lower tier schools, University of Iowa (ranked 60th), and Michigan State and most likely am planning on going to the University of Iowa.

There not comparable to the likes of Brown/Michigan/OSU/USC, however Iowa is providing me with funding. I plan to go there to exceptionally well and complete a thesis. Depending on how much I enjoy it there all depends then whether I will continue doing my PhD there or go off to another school.

That's a big deal. Congratulations!

See? They are unlikely to give funding if you apply for MS. You should tell them your heart is in PhD. Tell them you applied for PhD at Iowa, and was accepted with funding. If you could do PhD with them with funding, you would prefer to go there. Just tell them honestly.

[HassE]

That's a big deal. Congratulations!

See? They are unlikely to give funding if you apply for MS. You should tell them your heart is in PhD. Tell them you applied for PhD at Iowa, and was accepted with funding. If you could do PhD with them with funding, you would prefer to go there. Just tell them honestly.

Yes, I am a little disappointed I didn't suck it up and apply to PhD everywhere. At first I was happy just to get accepted into the MS program to begin with, but once I was getting accepted into all my "top choices" I started regretting the decision. My GRE scores were not that impressive at all and my low GPA scared me away from other PhD programs.

mechengr2000....your advice. Iowa clearly is not that popular or recognized compared to the likes of Brown/USC/OSU and especially Michigan. Do you feel applying to the big name PhD programs Harvard/Stanford/Princeton/CMU coming from an MS from Iowa will hurt my chances of getting accepted into their program compared to if I say went to Michigan instead?

Would saving a 100k by going to Iowa instead of a school i'd have to pay for the best decision? Or does a name like Michigan really put me in a prime position whereas Iowa schools will shy away from it?

Edited April 21, 2011 by hasseye

[adelashk]

Yes, I am a little disappointed I didn't suck it up and apply to PhD everywhere. At first I was happy just to get accepted into the MS program to begin with, but once I was getting accepted into all my "top choices" I started regretting the decision. My GRE scores were not that impressive at all and my low GPA scared me away from other PhD programs.

mechengr2000....your advice. Iowa clearly is not that popular or recognized compared to the likes of Brown/USC/OSU and especially Michigan. Do you feel applying to the big name PhD programs Harvard/Stanford/Princeton/CMU coming from an MS from Iowa will hurt my chances of getting accepted into their program compared to if I say went to Michigan instead?

Would saving a 100k by going to Iowa instead of a school i'd have to pay for the best decision? Or does a name like Michigan really put me in a prime position whereas Iowa schools will shy away from it?

You got into Michigan. I do not think you realize how big of an accomplishment and how impressive that is. I would definitely go for Michigan without blinking. With that said, there are exceptions.. Michigan would have tougher competition than Iowa so your chances of shinning might be lower. However, an average Michigan student might statistically have higher chances of getting into top schools than an average Iowa student (due to resources, well recognized professors, etc..). Essentially, if you think you can be an above average student at Michigan then go for it. If not, and if you think you can kick ass at Iowa I would go there instead. You must understand that this is all based on educated guesses and probability/stats rather than facts. You could go to Michigan, become a stellar student, and still get rejected from those schools.. You could also suck at Iowa and get a shiny letter of approval from Harvard or the like.

Edited April 21, 2011 by adelashk

[HassE]

You got into Michigan. I do not think you realize how big of an accomplishment and how impressive that is. I would definitely go for Michigan without blinking. With that said, there are exceptions.. Michigan would have tougher competition than Iowa so your chances of shinning might be lower. However, an average Michigan student might statistically have higher chances of getting into top schools than an average Iowa student (due to resources, well recognized professors, etc..). Essentially, if you think you can be an above average student at Michigan then go for it. If not, and if you think you can kick ass at Iowa I would go there instead. You must understand that this is all based on educated guesses and probability/stats rather than facts. You could go to Michigan, become a stellar student, and still get rejected from those schools.. You could also suck at Iowa and get a shiny letter of approval from Harvard or the like.

Thank you. I know it wasn't my GRE scores that helped me get in there, nor my school. I attended a small private engineering school in Boston, MA - not ranked or anything. My professor and research advisor graduated from Michigan from their Biomedical Engineering program and also did post doctorate research there. I'm assuming his alumni status helped me out big time.

I had my heart set on Michigan and was planning on attending there. It wasn't until I heard back from Iowa saying they were going to offer me tuition waiver plus stipend. After I calculated out the costs for Michigan, a MS there including housing/living expenses would cost me nearly 90-100k. I just can't justify turning down admissions into a PhD program being funded for spending nearly 100k, even though Michigan is a top-10 school.

You are also correct, the competition at Michigan must be intense. As mentioned I attended a small engineering school where there competition was only amongst 3-4 students in the class. The other students were smart, but did not apply themselves. I'm not saying i'm the smartest student in my class, but I invest significant time into my studies. I also don't think i'll be the smartest student at Iowa either, but I feel I can be an above-average student there with the potential to do research. At Michigan i'd feel i'd barely have my head out of the water there and have close to a zero chance of doing research there. Although I'm not proud of this, maybe at Iowa will be a good way to bridge the gap if I were to do a PhD elsewhere instead of jumping into a highly competitive program -like Michigan- right off the bat.

I also don't want you guys to think i'm one of those students that only wants Harvard "because it's Harvard". I picked only a select few program due to what it would contribute to me and my networks, which is why I didn't choice MIT/Berkeley/GTech/UIUC/etc. All those schools are arguably better than the schools I have on my list, but I pick certain programs for what they offer me, not because of their rankings or "program name".

For example, I really like the Dual PhD Carnegie Mellon offers with a Portugal partner. I like the fact that I can gain international experience while still doing my PhD. Meeting many new people especially from different countries. At the end I learn at two different schools and get two PhDs from both of these schools. CMU also has a research mobility lab in Silicon Valley which could also foster my networks and learning from others. Otherwise, I wouldn't apply directly to CMU's regular PhD program.

[barber5]

Thank you. I know it wasn't my GRE scores that helped me get in there, nor my school. I attended a small private engineering school in Boston, MA - not ranked or anything. My professor and research advisor graduated from Michigan from their Biomedical Engineering program and also did post doctorate research there. I'm assuming his alumni status helped me out big time.

I had my heart set on Michigan and was planning on attending there. It wasn't until I heard back from Iowa saying they were going to offer me tuition waiver plus stipend. After I calculated out the costs for Michigan, a MS there including housing/living expenses would cost me nearly 90-100k. I just can't justify turning down admissions into a PhD program being funded for spending nearly 100k, even though Michigan is a top-10 school.

You are also correct, the competition at Michigan must be intense. As mentioned I attended a small engineering school where there competition was only amongst 3-4 students in the class. The other students were smart, but did not apply themselves. I'm not saying i'm the smartest student in my class, but I invest significant time into my studies. I also don't think i'll be the smartest student at Iowa either, but I feel I can be an above-average student there with the potential to do research. At Michigan i'd feel i'd barely have my head out of the water there and have close to a zero chance of doing research there. Although I'm not proud of this, maybe at Iowa will be a good way to bridge the gap if I were to do a PhD elsewhere instead of jumping into a highly competitive program -like Michigan- right off the bat.

I also don't want you guys to think i'm one of those students that only wants Harvard "because it's Harvard". I picked only a select few program due to what it would contribute to me and my networks, which is why I didn't choice MIT/Berkeley/GTech/UIUC/etc. All those schools are arguably better than the schools I have on my list, but I pick certain programs for what they offer me, not because of their rankings or "program name".

For example, I really like the Dual PhD Carnegie Mellon offers with a Portugal partner. I like the fact that I can gain international experience while still doing my PhD. Meeting many new people especially from different countries. At the end I learn at two different schools and get two PhDs from both of these schools. CMU also has a research mobility lab in Silicon Valley which could also foster my networks and learning from others. Otherwise, I wouldn't apply directly to CMU's regular PhD program.

Hmm, dollar for dollar, network for network, I would say the best you can do for your silicon valley money is Stanford first and then UIUC (Having an in to the "Paypal Mafia" at the intersection of Stanford/UIUC would probably get you farther than being first cousins with Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg) second pretty close to Harvard

[mechengr2000]

mechengr2000....your advice. Iowa clearly is not that popular or recognized compared to the likes of Brown/USC/OSU and especially Michigan. Do you feel applying to the big name PhD programs Harvard/Stanford/Princeton/CMU coming from an MS from Iowa will hurt my chances of getting accepted into their program compared to if I say went to Michigan instead?

Would saving a 100k by going to Iowa instead of a school i'd have to pay for the best decision? Or does a name like Michigan really put me in a prime position whereas Iowa schools will shy away from it?

I think that all the cards are not on the table yet, so there is no sense in trying to make a hand. Let's get all the available options on the table first. Think real hard about how you are going to tell Michigan how you want to do a PhD, but just need the funding. Think about this hard for the next two days and draft something. You can PM me if you like.

[HassE]

Hmm, dollar for dollar, network for network, I would say the best you can do for your silicon valley money is Stanford first and then UIUC (Having an in to the "Paypal Mafia" at the intersection of Stanford/UIUC would probably get you farther than being first cousins with Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg) second pretty close to Harvard

I can see Stanford first, however UIUC has great (better) networks over Harvard?

[adelashk]

I can see Stanford first, however UIUC has great (better) networks over Harvard?

I think he was referring to engineering/research connections as opposed to venture capitalists/businessmen. In that case I would say UIUC > Harvard. For your future plans which would involve a startup or a management position I would say Harvard might be better.

[HassE]

I think he was referring to engineering/research connections as opposed to venture capitalists/businessmen. In that case I would say UIUC > Harvard. For your future plans which would involve a startup or a management position I would say Harvard might be better.

Again, like you said earlier I can not plan my future. It takes a very serious individual with an amazing idea to have the slightest shot to start even a small company. My whole thing about going to a big entrepreneurship school and well-ranked for engineering is to be submerged in that type of atmosphere and environment. If your around this type of atmosphere all day, eventually your mindset will be different, which is what i'm trying to accomplish.

Combine a rigorous engineering program with an entrepreneurship/business mindset relating to engineering.

Edited April 22, 2011 by hasseye

[barber5]

Actually I was referring to entrepreneurship.

While the culture here isn't insanely entrepreneurial, the most dynamic Silicon Valley network that I'm aware of-the alumni of Paypal's early days-is split fairly evenly around Stanford and UIUC people

* The disclaimer is I'm mostly confining my evaluation to dot-coms and some hardware companies

Edited April 24, 2011 by barber5