goodbye, England

[indalomena]

Greetings, grad-cafe-goers! I am a British student, studying for a master's degree in England, but fearing for the future of our universities and realising that if I want an academic career, I must be internationally-minded. And, much as I love our research-focused, independent-minded PhD system here, I think a US/Canadian PhD would be a better professional preparation, with better prospects, despite taking a good amount of time more. (My field is Renaissance literature.)

So, after a little bit of lurking, I decided to join gradcafe -- it seems a delightful community, which will hopefully hold my hand a bit during the forthcoming GRE-taking application-completing obscene-fee-paying process.

any other English students about? Or, anyone who just wants to say hello to a poor newbie..

[Bukharan]

I am from the continent but gained my undergraduate degree in Scotland, and now finishing up Master's in Scotland as well. Yes, financially it makes sense to leave the sinking ship now. Britain still offers fantastic undergraduate education but for postgraduate education the States seems a financially safer bet. Well, in my case anyway.

[Owlie]

Hello! I know what you mean--my parents are both from the UK and did their PhDs (biochemistry type things) there. They loved it: No coursework, just research. Alas, the financial situation...

Welcome to Grad Cafe!

[wreckofthehope]

Hi indalomena, welcome

I'm also a British student. I'll be heading to Boston in August after a gruelling application season - I'd be happy to answer any questions you have - feel free to PM me if there's anything a fellow Brit' could be most helpful with!

Do you have any ideas about particular places you'd like to apply yet?

Greetings, grad-cafe-goers! I am a British student, studying for a master's degree in England, but fearing for the future of our universities and realising that if I want an academic career, I must be internationally-minded. And, much as I love our research-focused, independent-minded PhD system here, I think a US/Canadian PhD would be a better professional preparation, with better prospects, despite taking a good amount of time more. (My field is Renaissance literature.)

So, after a little bit of lurking, I decided to join gradcafe -- it seems a delightful community, which will hopefully hold my hand a bit during the forthcoming GRE-taking application-completing obscene-fee-paying process.

any other English students about? Or, anyone who just wants to say hello to a poor newbie..

[indalomena]

Bukharan -- as a former student of a Scottish university, I fully concur -- my undergraduate education there was first-rate and I feel very lucky for the experience I had. Looking at your signature it looks like you've done well -- congratulations and I hope California treats you well!

Owlie, thanks for the welcome! Yes, if only the financial situation were a little better, because I do like the idea of a solely research-based PhD. But I think I would benefit from additional coursework, even though it will probably be pretty stressful. Good luck with your 2012 applications!

wreckofthehope -- thanks for your response and offer of help, I may well take you up on that! Congratulations on your success in the application season, I absolutely love Boston and I hope it's great for you!

As for where to apply -- I don't have a list worked out yet. There are several academics I'm interested in, scattered about, but something that confuses me is that in the UK, you don't really worry too much about the institution and just pick a supervisor. With the US, I've heard horror stories of people showing up and then their prospective supervisor leaving before their research begins -- it seems a safer bet to go to a strong department. Is this correct? I was really interested in Chicago a while back and then one of the people I wanted to work with left. Sad times! All the places I've looked at have terrifying admissions stats -- getting in seems much tougher than over here. Not sure how to distinguish myself from the masses of applicants..

[rgarnham]

Hi, I am also a British student and I'll be studying an MSc in Latin American Studies at Oxford in October.

I was, until a few months ago, very set on going to the US to do a PhD, but I have recently been put off of the idea (mainly) because of what I have read on this forum. There is no doubt that the US system offers more money, better quality facilities, more opportunities, a better education, and probably better prospects. I had to ask myself, however, whether I could hack working 60-70 hours a week for 5-7 years, and whether I really want to put off entering the job market until I am nearly 30 years old. My conclusion was that it was probably better to do a PhD in Britain in 3 years and then build up my experience with a post-doc or two. This will probably limit my employment opportunities in the US, but I think I will still have reasonable opportunities in Britain, Europe and Latin America.

I am not informed on the subject, but is the US or Canada really the best place to study renaissance literature?

[starmaker]

With the US, I've heard horror stories of people showing up and then their prospective supervisor leaving before their research begins -- it seems a safer bet to go to a strong department. Is this correct?

I'm not a Brit, but I was reading this thread anyway, and have some advice about this.

1. Don't apply to a program unless there are at least two potential advisors that you'd be glad to work with, preferably three. That way, if one leaves, you still have another good one.

2. Look at the tenure status of your potential advisors, and make sure that at least one is tenured. If they are not tenured, they are more likely to leave (they may be forced to, if they don't get tenure). It is true that many professors who leave for other schools are allowed to take their existing students with them as a condition of their new job, but that could mean moving across the US, possibly leaving a social support network behind or transferring to a less prestigious department. If you pick the potential advisor who is not tenured, cultivate a relationship with the one who is as well - that way, if your untenured advisor leaves academia or switches to a department where you can't/don't want to go, you have some chance of being able to stay in your same department and switch to the tenured prof's group.

3. When you're applying (or before), and you're contacting potential advisors, work in the question of whether they plan to stay. Also, it doesn't hurt to make sure that they are actually in the department - when I was applying for MS programs, one of my potential advisors, who was still listed on the department website, turned out to have retired the year before.

[indalomena]

rgarnham -- yes, your concerns about the US echo my own concerns, but for me I think the good outweighs the bad -- and yes, there are many excellent places in North America to study Renaissance literature! Wouldn't be considering going if there weren't ... starmaker -- many thanks for the advice, I will certainly look into these things when I start my applications.

[Bukharan]

I had to ask myself, however, whether I could hack working 60-70 hours a week for 5-7 years, and whether I really want to put off entering the job market until I am nearly 30 years old. My conclusion was that it was probably better to do a PhD in Britain in 3 years and then build up my experience with a post-doc or two.

Look, I haven't started doctoral studies yet so I may be wrong here but:

1. Ph.D. in the UK (especially, in Britain's 'elite' universities as much as I hate the term) is also not easy. Perhaps, a couple of early Ph.D. years in the USA are indeed intense because of all the courses, extra languages and required teaching but it won't be much less than that in the UK if you take the topic of your dissertation seriously.

2. It is 'only' a difference of several years. Funding in many US places is for 5 years but most students take +1-2 more years to graduate. Funding in the UK will be for 3 years but, from my understanding, very few actually graduate in 3 years, and also take 1-2 years extra.

[indalomena]

2. It is 'only' a difference of several years. Funding in many US places is for 5 years but most students take +1-2 more years to graduate. Funding in the UK will be for 3 years but, from my understanding, very few actually graduate in 3 years, and also take 1-2 years extra.

very true, I have several friends doing PhDs in the British system -- very intelligent, hard-working, motivated people -- and none of them finished in 3 years ...